Re: Ethernet Wired Homes - Interference prone?

[Doug Smith W9WI]

DOUGLAS SNOWDEN wrote:
> Just curious, have any of you had trouble with your neighbors that have had
> their homes wired with CAT5 cable? Does it want to act like an antenna and
> cause intereference (to them and you) ???

I've wired my own home with Cat5 and have no problems, in either direction.
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

[Doug Smith W9WI]

DOUGLAS SNOWDEN wrote:
> Just curious, have any of you had trouble with your neighbors that have had
> their homes wired with CAT5 cable? Does it want to act like an antenna and
> cause intereference (to them and you) ???

I've wired my own home with Cat5 and have no problems, in either direction.
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

[Bob Lewis \(AA4PB\)]

I've got CAT5 Etherenet in my house (even in my shack) and have no
problems either way. CAT5 is balanced and very tightly twisted so
there is not a lot of leakage. You wouldn't want to run an antenna
right next to it, but it is fine for a normal installation.

[Bob Lewis \(AA4PB\)]

I've got CAT5 Etherenet in my house (even in my shack) and have no
problems either way. CAT5 is balanced and very tightly twisted so
there is not a lot of leakage. You wouldn't want to run an antenna
right next to it, but it is fine for a normal installation.

[Ken Ashcroft]

I have several PC's wired to a hub router and ADSL, using cat 5
connections. No problems have been detected with RF noise.
In article >, DOUGLAS SNOWDEN
> writes
>Just curious, have any of you had trouble with your neighbors that have had
>their homes wired with CAT5 cable? Does it want to act like an antenna and
>cause intereference (to them and you) ???
>
>Doug N4IJ
>
>

--
Ken Ashcroft

[Ken Ashcroft]

I have several PC's wired to a hub router and ADSL, using cat 5
connections. No problems have been detected with RF noise.
In article >, DOUGLAS SNOWDEN
> writes
>Just curious, have any of you had trouble with your neighbors that have had
>their homes wired with CAT5 cable? Does it want to act like an antenna and
>cause intereference (to them and you) ???
>
>Doug N4IJ
>
>

--
Ken Ashcroft

[G.Beat]

Doug -

"Properly installed" should be NO problem

I installed miles of Cat 5 running Ethernet at a major hospital.

Due to ICU, Surgery, Radiology and Lab departments, we swept the entire area
for
any potential interference - which would interfere with patient support
equipment.

NONE. The industry does not need "urban legends"

"Properly installed" is the key aspect --- and their are a number of
certification organizations
for installers and contractors.

gb

--
Do not use Reply (spam logger & catcher).
Reply only through ARRL forwarding service to W9GB

"DOUGLAS SNOWDEN" > wrote in message
...
> Just curious, have any of you had trouble with your neighbors that have
had
> their homes wired with CAT5 cable? Does it want to act like an antenna and
> cause intereference (to them and you) ???
>
> Doug N4IJ
>
>

[G.Beat]

Doug -

"Properly installed" should be NO problem

I installed miles of Cat 5 running Ethernet at a major hospital.

Due to ICU, Surgery, Radiology and Lab departments, we swept the entire area
for
any potential interference - which would interfere with patient support
equipment.

NONE. The industry does not need "urban legends"

"Properly installed" is the key aspect --- and their are a number of
certification organizations
for installers and contractors.

gb

--
Do not use Reply (spam logger & catcher).
Reply only through ARRL forwarding service to W9GB

"DOUGLAS SNOWDEN" > wrote in message
...
> Just curious, have any of you had trouble with your neighbors that have
had
> their homes wired with CAT5 cable? Does it want to act like an antenna and
> cause intereference (to them and you) ???
>
> Doug N4IJ
>
>

[Mike Andrews]

Ken Ashcroft > wrote:
> I have several PC's wired to a hub router and ADSL, using cat 5
> connections. No problems have been detected with RF noise.
> In article >, DOUGLAS SNOWDEN
> > writes
> >Just curious, have any of you had trouble with your neighbors that have had
> >their homes wired with CAT5 cable? Does it want to act like an antenna and
> >cause intereference (to them and you) ???

In my experience at home and at work, it's OK unless and untill a
hub, switch, or NIC decides to get noisy. Then it's time to get out
the handheld scanner and start tracking it down. The radio shop at
WeBuildHighways, my day job, had a bad switch, and it took a day to
find out what was trashing their VHF reception.

Aside from that, it's just fine.

--
Viagra's not what it's cracked up to be. I took a dozen last night and
only nine worked.

[Mike Andrews]

Ken Ashcroft > wrote:
> I have several PC's wired to a hub router and ADSL, using cat 5
> connections. No problems have been detected with RF noise.
> In article >, DOUGLAS SNOWDEN
> > writes
> >Just curious, have any of you had trouble with your neighbors that have had
> >their homes wired with CAT5 cable? Does it want to act like an antenna and
> >cause intereference (to them and you) ???

In my experience at home and at work, it's OK unless and untill a
hub, switch, or NIC decides to get noisy. Then it's time to get out
the handheld scanner and start tracking it down. The radio shop at
WeBuildHighways, my day job, had a bad switch, and it took a day to
find out what was trashing their VHF reception.

Aside from that, it's just fine.

--
Viagra's not what it's cracked up to be. I took a dozen last night and
only nine worked.

[Jim, N2VX]

On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 21:28:36 -0400, "DOUGLAS SNOWDEN"
> wrote:

>Just curious, have any of you had trouble with your neighbors that have had
>their homes wired with CAT5 cable? Does it want to act like an antenna and
>cause intereference (to them and you) ???
>
>Doug N4IJ
>

Ours generates noise on HF. I have a vertical antenna about 15 feet
from the house and that doesn't help. We didn't have problems with
the old-style coax cable ethernet. I'll switch to shielded cat-5
cable in the near future.

73,
Jim
N2VX

[Jim, N2VX]

On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 21:28:36 -0400, "DOUGLAS SNOWDEN"
> wrote:

>Just curious, have any of you had trouble with your neighbors that have had
>their homes wired with CAT5 cable? Does it want to act like an antenna and
>cause intereference (to them and you) ???
>
>Doug N4IJ
>

Ours generates noise on HF. I have a vertical antenna about 15 feet
from the house and that doesn't help. We didn't have problems with
the old-style coax cable ethernet. I'll switch to shielded cat-5
cable in the near future.

73,
Jim
N2VX

[G.Beat]

Jim -

Shielded twisted pair is included within the EIA/TIA 568 standard
and is used in parts of Europe. It is more expensive to install and takes
more time to terminate (but less than the old IBM Type 1 cabling system !!)

Greg

--
Do not use Reply
Reply only through ARRL forwarding service to W9GB

"Jim, N2VX" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 21:28:36 -0400, "DOUGLAS SNOWDEN"
> > wrote:
>
> >Just curious, have any of you had trouble with your neighbors that have
had
> >their homes wired with CAT5 cable? Does it want to act like an antenna
and
> >cause intereference (to them and you) ???
> >
> >Doug N4IJ
> >
>
> Ours generates noise on HF. I have a vertical antenna about 15 feet
> from the house and that doesn't help. We didn't have problems with
> the old-style coax cable ethernet. I'll switch to shielded cat-5
> cable in the near future.
>
> 73,
> Jim
> N2VX

[G.Beat]

Jim -

Shielded twisted pair is included within the EIA/TIA 568 standard
and is used in parts of Europe. It is more expensive to install and takes
more time to terminate (but less than the old IBM Type 1 cabling system !!)

Greg

--
Do not use Reply
Reply only through ARRL forwarding service to W9GB

"Jim, N2VX" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 21:28:36 -0400, "DOUGLAS SNOWDEN"
> > wrote:
>
> >Just curious, have any of you had trouble with your neighbors that have
had
> >their homes wired with CAT5 cable? Does it want to act like an antenna
and
> >cause intereference (to them and you) ???
> >
> >Doug N4IJ
> >
>
> Ours generates noise on HF. I have a vertical antenna about 15 feet
> from the house and that doesn't help. We didn't have problems with
> the old-style coax cable ethernet. I'll switch to shielded cat-5
> cable in the near future.
>
> 73,
> Jim
> N2VX

[G.Beat]

>" Uncle Peter" > wrote in message
...
>
> The amount of RF required to interfere with a sensitive RF
> receiver is quite a few magnitudes less than what would
> interfere with patient support equipment.
>
>On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 21:28:36 -0400, "DOUGLAS SNOWDEN"
> wrote:
>
>Just curious, have any of you had trouble with your neighbors that have had
>their homes wired with CAT5 cable? Does it want to act like an antenna and
>cause interference (to them and you) ???
>
>Doug N4IJ
>
>Ours generates noise on HF. I have a vertical antenna about 15 feet
>from the house and that doesn't help. We didn't have problems with
>the old-style coax cable Ethernet. I'll switch to shielded cat-5
>cable in the near future.
>
>73,
>Jim
>N2VX

I will only speak for what I know, have observed in the field or tested in
the biomed labs.

When testing commenced in 1992 at Mercy, we found the majority of the
problems were with
switching power supplies that powered the network and computer equipment.
Our discoveries and test results forced Compaq to recall equipment for noise
and
improper grounding [One bad Chinese supplier - they were using several at
that time].

Coax [10-Base-T] will limit you to standard Ethernet speed (10 Mb) - and is
subject to the
quality of cable and its coax shielding - which is why Belden has specific
model number of Thick and Thin
Ethernet.

Fiber Optic is ideal - but you have termination costs and again power issues
with equipment.

I have not yet tested any of the upcoming 802.3af equipment ("power for
phones") -
yet another potential to examine in the "wiring closet".

Greg
w9gb
--
Do not use Reply
Reply only through ARRL forwarding service to W9GB

[G.Beat]

>" Uncle Peter" > wrote in message
...
>
> The amount of RF required to interfere with a sensitive RF
> receiver is quite a few magnitudes less than what would
> interfere with patient support equipment.
>
>On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 21:28:36 -0400, "DOUGLAS SNOWDEN"
> wrote:
>
>Just curious, have any of you had trouble with your neighbors that have had
>their homes wired with CAT5 cable? Does it want to act like an antenna and
>cause interference (to them and you) ???
>
>Doug N4IJ
>
>Ours generates noise on HF. I have a vertical antenna about 15 feet
>from the house and that doesn't help. We didn't have problems with
>the old-style coax cable Ethernet. I'll switch to shielded cat-5
>cable in the near future.
>
>73,
>Jim
>N2VX

I will only speak for what I know, have observed in the field or tested in
the biomed labs.

When testing commenced in 1992 at Mercy, we found the majority of the
problems were with
switching power supplies that powered the network and computer equipment.
Our discoveries and test results forced Compaq to recall equipment for noise
and
improper grounding [One bad Chinese supplier - they were using several at
that time].

Coax [10-Base-T] will limit you to standard Ethernet speed (10 Mb) - and is
subject to the
quality of cable and its coax shielding - which is why Belden has specific
model number of Thick and Thin
Ethernet.

Fiber Optic is ideal - but you have termination costs and again power issues
with equipment.

I have not yet tested any of the upcoming 802.3af equipment ("power for
phones") -
yet another potential to examine in the "wiring closet".

Greg
w9gb
--
Do not use Reply
Reply only through ARRL forwarding service to W9GB

[Andrew R Mitz]

I get interference from a hub in the basement near the rig. Most noise
is on 20 meters. The problem is especially bad if there is an
unterminated wire connected to the hub.

Jim, N2VX ) wrote:
: On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 21:28:36 -0400, "DOUGLAS SNOWDEN"
: > wrote:
:
: >Just curious, have any of you had trouble with your neighbors that have had
: >their homes wired with CAT5 cable? Does it want to act like an antenna and
: >cause intereference (to them and you) ???
: >
: >Doug N4IJ
: >
:
: Ours generates noise on HF. I have a vertical antenna about 15 feet
: from the house and that doesn't help. We didn't have problems with
: the old-style coax cable ethernet. I'll switch to shielded cat-5
: cable in the near future.
:
: 73,
: Jim
: N2VX

[Andrew R Mitz]

I get interference from a hub in the basement near the rig. Most noise
is on 20 meters. The problem is especially bad if there is an
unterminated wire connected to the hub.

Jim, N2VX ) wrote:
: On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 21:28:36 -0400, "DOUGLAS SNOWDEN"
: > wrote:
:
: >Just curious, have any of you had trouble with your neighbors that have had
: >their homes wired with CAT5 cable? Does it want to act like an antenna and
: >cause intereference (to them and you) ???
: >
: >Doug N4IJ
: >
:
: Ours generates noise on HF. I have a vertical antenna about 15 feet
: from the house and that doesn't help. We didn't have problems with
: the old-style coax cable ethernet. I'll switch to shielded cat-5
: cable in the near future.
:
: 73,
: Jim
: N2VX

[**THE-RFI-EMI-GUY**]

Can Cat-5 be run through conduit without any signal degradation? Reason
is to provide mechanical protection.

G.Beat wrote:

>Doug -
>
>"Properly installed" should be NO problem
>
>I installed miles of Cat 5 running Ethernet at a major hospital.
>
>Due to ICU, Surgery, Radiology and Lab departments, we swept the entire area
>for
>any potential interference - which would interfere with patient support
>equipment.
>
>NONE. The industry does not need "urban legends"
>
>"Properly installed" is the key aspect --- and their are a number of
>certification organizations
>for installers and contractors.
>
>gb
>
>
>


--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT


"Jazz is not dead. It just smells funny." -F.Z.

[**THE-RFI-EMI-GUY**]

Can Cat-5 be run through conduit without any signal degradation? Reason
is to provide mechanical protection.

G.Beat wrote:

>Doug -
>
>"Properly installed" should be NO problem
>
>I installed miles of Cat 5 running Ethernet at a major hospital.
>
>Due to ICU, Surgery, Radiology and Lab departments, we swept the entire area
>for
>any potential interference - which would interfere with patient support
>equipment.
>
>NONE. The industry does not need "urban legends"
>
>"Properly installed" is the key aspect --- and their are a number of
>certification organizations
>for installers and contractors.
>
>gb
>
>
>


--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT


"Jazz is not dead. It just smells funny." -F.Z.

[DOUGLAS SNOWDEN]

That seems to answer my question - not a problem.

Doug
N4IJ

"Andrew R Mitz" > wrote in message
...
>
> I get interference from a hub in the basement near the rig. Most noise
> is on 20 meters. The problem is especially bad if there is an
> unterminated wire connected to the hub.
>
> Jim, N2VX ) wrote:
> : On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 21:28:36 -0400, "DOUGLAS SNOWDEN"
> : > wrote:
> :
> : >Just curious, have any of you had trouble with your neighbors that have
had
> : >their homes wired with CAT5 cable? Does it want to act like an antenna
and
> : >cause intereference (to them and you) ???
> : >
> : >Doug N4IJ
> : >
> :
> : Ours generates noise on HF. I have a vertical antenna about 15 feet
> : from the house and that doesn't help. We didn't have problems with
> : the old-style coax cable ethernet. I'll switch to shielded cat-5
> : cable in the near future.
> :
> : 73,
> : Jim
> : N2VX

[DOUGLAS SNOWDEN]

That seems to answer my question - not a problem.

Doug
N4IJ

"Andrew R Mitz" > wrote in message
...
>
> I get interference from a hub in the basement near the rig. Most noise
> is on 20 meters. The problem is especially bad if there is an
> unterminated wire connected to the hub.
>
> Jim, N2VX ) wrote:
> : On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 21:28:36 -0400, "DOUGLAS SNOWDEN"
> : > wrote:
> :
> : >Just curious, have any of you had trouble with your neighbors that have
had
> : >their homes wired with CAT5 cable? Does it want to act like an antenna
and
> : >cause intereference (to them and you) ???
> : >
> : >Doug N4IJ
> : >
> :
> : Ours generates noise on HF. I have a vertical antenna about 15 feet
> : from the house and that doesn't help. We didn't have problems with
> : the old-style coax cable ethernet. I'll switch to shielded cat-5
> : cable in the near future.
> :
> : 73,
> : Jim
> : N2VX

[Active8]

In article >,
says...
> Just curious, have any of you had trouble with your neighbors that have had
> their homes wired with CAT5 cable? Does it want to act like an antenna and
> cause intereference (to them and you) ???
>
> Doug N4IJ
>
>
>
i run a home ethernet with cat5 and there's a lot of cop traffic from
the magistrate's office next door. no prob.

[Active8]

In article >,
says...
> Just curious, have any of you had trouble with your neighbors that have had
> their homes wired with CAT5 cable? Does it want to act like an antenna and
> cause intereference (to them and you) ???
>
> Doug N4IJ
>
>
>
i run a home ethernet with cat5 and there's a lot of cop traffic from
the magistrate's office next door. no prob.

[bobinphx]

Las Vegas NV, since the MGM fire, requires all data cable (cat 5 and cat5e
included) to be run in Metallic conduit... I built a warehouse for a major
parcel carrier (who likes to destroy boatanchors ) What an expensive city
to run data cable (and phone)!!!!!!!

[bobinphx]

Las Vegas NV, since the MGM fire, requires all data cable (cat 5 and cat5e
included) to be run in Metallic conduit... I built a warehouse for a major
parcel carrier (who likes to destroy boatanchors ) What an expensive city
to run data cable (and phone)!!!!!!!

[bobinphx]

arrrrggg type 1!!!!!!!!!!! ever see type 2... (it also had phone cable in
it!!)

Both types were a B*^ch to manage correctly!!!!!

Bob (who's fingers still hurt from type 1 terminations!!!)

[bobinphx]

arrrrggg type 1!!!!!!!!!!! ever see type 2... (it also had phone cable in
it!!)

Both types were a B*^ch to manage correctly!!!!!

Bob (who's fingers still hurt from type 1 terminations!!!)

[G.Beat]

Yes sir,

In the early days of networking, I had to install and support a WIDE variety
of networks and
physical media (and a few different file server OS - but largely Novell !!)

In addition to the original Token Ring 4 Mbps and Thick and Thin Ethernet
(10-Base-5 and 10-Base-2)
Altos Server and original 3com Net (Thinnet based)
Novell's S-Net
Proteon's 4-Net and 10-Net (10 Mbps 10-Net was not adopted - later IBM 16
Mbps was)
G-Net ( 1 Mbps)
Omninet (for Apple II)
ARCnet Token-passing (PC and old Datapoint 8-bit processor version)
Sytek / IBM PC Network (used 75 ohm CATV cabling)
Appletalk for Macs
AT&T StarNet (another 1 Mbps)

and others from Novell lab classes when Ray Noorda showed up and signed your
certificate!

Today, the company I work for is owned by the US patent holder for Token
Ring

.... who said the world is small?

w9gb

"bobinphx" > wrote in message
news:3tsOa.120467$MJ5.114971@fed1read03...
> arrrrggg type 1!!!!!!!!!!! ever see type 2... (it also had phone cable
in
> it!!)
>
> Both types were a B*^ch to manage correctly!!!!!
>
> Bob (who's fingers still hurt from type 1 terminations!!!)
>
>
>

[G.Beat]

Yes sir,

In the early days of networking, I had to install and support a WIDE variety
of networks and
physical media (and a few different file server OS - but largely Novell !!)

In addition to the original Token Ring 4 Mbps and Thick and Thin Ethernet
(10-Base-5 and 10-Base-2)
Altos Server and original 3com Net (Thinnet based)
Novell's S-Net
Proteon's 4-Net and 10-Net (10 Mbps 10-Net was not adopted - later IBM 16
Mbps was)
G-Net ( 1 Mbps)
Omninet (for Apple II)
ARCnet Token-passing (PC and old Datapoint 8-bit processor version)
Sytek / IBM PC Network (used 75 ohm CATV cabling)
Appletalk for Macs
AT&T StarNet (another 1 Mbps)

and others from Novell lab classes when Ray Noorda showed up and signed your
certificate!

Today, the company I work for is owned by the US patent holder for Token
Ring

.... who said the world is small?

w9gb

"bobinphx" > wrote in message
news:3tsOa.120467$MJ5.114971@fed1read03...
> arrrrggg type 1!!!!!!!!!!! ever see type 2... (it also had phone cable
in
> it!!)
>
> Both types were a B*^ch to manage correctly!!!!!
>
> Bob (who's fingers still hurt from type 1 terminations!!!)
>
>
>

[opcom]

Like wise, here.

The DSL comes to the house, goes into a plastic conduit, under the ground, 50' to the lab, into the ADSL modem, out as ethernet to a hub, then one line to the server and one back to the house, where it comes in and goes to two
more hubs and 4 computers.

The The noise is heard as a popping sound in the receivers, and is present in the lab, and in the house. It's worst around 10MHz and 15 MHz, and occurs when there's ethernet traffic. I hope that putting the antenna up on a tower
will help. Right now I SWL with an antenna in the attic.

The server is a large minicomputer, maybe it's not intended for operation in the home, maybe has less EMI restrictions?

"Jim, N2VX" wrote:
>
> On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 21:28:36 -0400, "DOUGLAS SNOWDEN"
> > wrote:
>
> >Just curious, have any of you had trouble with your neighbors that have had
> >their homes wired with CAT5 cable? Does it want to act like an antenna and
> >cause intereference (to them and you) ???
> >
> >Doug N4IJ
> >
>
> Ours generates noise on HF. I have a vertical antenna about 15 feet
> from the house and that doesn't help. We didn't have problems with
> the old-style coax cable ethernet. I'll switch to shielded cat-5
> cable in the near future.
>
> 73,
> Jim
> N2VX

[opcom]

Like wise, here.

The DSL comes to the house, goes into a plastic conduit, under the ground, 50' to the lab, into the ADSL modem, out as ethernet to a hub, then one line to the server and one back to the house, where it comes in and goes to two
more hubs and 4 computers.

The The noise is heard as a popping sound in the receivers, and is present in the lab, and in the house. It's worst around 10MHz and 15 MHz, and occurs when there's ethernet traffic. I hope that putting the antenna up on a tower
will help. Right now I SWL with an antenna in the attic.

The server is a large minicomputer, maybe it's not intended for operation in the home, maybe has less EMI restrictions?

"Jim, N2VX" wrote:
>
> On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 21:28:36 -0400, "DOUGLAS SNOWDEN"
> > wrote:
>
> >Just curious, have any of you had trouble with your neighbors that have had
> >their homes wired with CAT5 cable? Does it want to act like an antenna and
> >cause intereference (to them and you) ???
> >
> >Doug N4IJ
> >
>
> Ours generates noise on HF. I have a vertical antenna about 15 feet
> from the house and that doesn't help. We didn't have problems with
> the old-style coax cable ethernet. I'll switch to shielded cat-5
> cable in the near future.
>
> 73,
> Jim
> N2VX