Fuel Tanks and Cereal Silos as Cavity Resonators for HF

[SpamLover]

Just out of curiosity - Did anyone ever try a cabinet-sized or
room-sized cavity resonator as roof filter in a HF receiving system?

I've trawled a bit for construction details, and found that a squat
cylindrical resonator may have a radius of a quarter wave, so say...

IF, MHz Diameter, feet what on earth?
-----------------------------------------------------
100 .49 a big can?
45 11 a fuel tank?
9 55 ????

It would be cool to use a whole room as a resonator, adding furniture
or guests as a way of trimming frequency or Q factor.

For mobile use, one might consider using a whole truck trailer as a
resonator.

I would not mind dumping a truck trailer behind the sheds at my
parents' farm and running some coax there and back, for a bit of HF
work during my weekend visits. Besides, they also have a couple of
unused silos, with cavities 15 ft in diameter and about 40 ft height.
I wonder if such cavities in series would be tight enough to provide
enough selectivity for CW work. They also have a huge pistoning lid
hanging inside from a crane, which could be used for tuning. So
perhaps they could provide ALL the filtering right at the fundamental
frequency, like: rhombic antenna -> coupler -> silo 1 -> coupler ->
silo 2 -> coupler -> product detector -> audio chain. Too bad they're
reinforced concrete and would need lining. A neighbour & friend has
new, shiny, airtight aluminum ones. His son is an electrical
engineer. Hmmmm.


Please do laugh, but comment constructively! I am an ignorant
coil-winder. Where do I read up on resonators and coupling? I would
not mind experimenting with a stack of barrel-sized filters if the
numbers warrant it.

73

Filippo
N1JPR/I2

[Al]

In article >,
(SpamLover) wrote:

> Just out of curiosity - Did anyone ever try a cabinet-sized or
> room-sized cavity resonator as roof filter in a HF receiving system?
>
> I've trawled a bit for construction details, and found that a squat
> cylindrical resonator may have a radius of a quarter wave, so say...
>
> IF, MHz Diameter, feet what on earth?
> -----------------------------------------------------
> 100 .49 a big can?
> 45 11 a fuel tank?
> 9 55 ????
>
> It would be cool to use a whole room as a resonator, adding furniture
> or guests as a way of trimming frequency or Q factor.
>
> For mobile use, one might consider using a whole truck trailer as a
> resonator.
>
> I would not mind dumping a truck trailer behind the sheds at my
> parents' farm and running some coax there and back, for a bit of HF
> work during my weekend visits. Besides, they also have a couple of
> unused silos, with cavities 15 ft in diameter and about 40 ft height.
> I wonder if such cavities in series would be tight enough to provide
> enough selectivity for CW work. They also have a huge pistoning lid
> hanging inside from a crane, which could be used for tuning. So
> perhaps they could provide ALL the filtering right at the fundamental
> frequency, like: rhombic antenna -> coupler -> silo 1 -> coupler ->
> silo 2 -> coupler -> product detector -> audio chain. Too bad they're
> reinforced concrete and would need lining. A neighbour & friend has
> new, shiny, airtight aluminum ones. His son is an electrical
> engineer. Hmmmm.
>
>
> Please do laugh, but comment constructively! I am an ignorant
> coil-winder. Where do I read up on resonators and coupling? I would
> not mind experimenting with a stack of barrel-sized filters if the
> numbers warrant it.
>

I'm not laughing! In the 60's, we had a problem with a shielded room.
The electrical noise within it was horrendous. It turned out that the
room size happened to be just right to resonate with the radiation from
the gigantic 5 MW SAGE radar which was just hundreds of feet away. the
solution was to move the sensitive gear out of that room and to another.
There was no way we could modify the radar nor the room; esp. the radar
which had a football field sized rotating antenna.

Al

--
There's never enough time to do it right the first time.......

[Al]

In article >,
(SpamLover) wrote:

> Just out of curiosity - Did anyone ever try a cabinet-sized or
> room-sized cavity resonator as roof filter in a HF receiving system?
>
> I've trawled a bit for construction details, and found that a squat
> cylindrical resonator may have a radius of a quarter wave, so say...
>
> IF, MHz Diameter, feet what on earth?
> -----------------------------------------------------
> 100 .49 a big can?
> 45 11 a fuel tank?
> 9 55 ????
>
> It would be cool to use a whole room as a resonator, adding furniture
> or guests as a way of trimming frequency or Q factor.
>
> For mobile use, one might consider using a whole truck trailer as a
> resonator.
>
> I would not mind dumping a truck trailer behind the sheds at my
> parents' farm and running some coax there and back, for a bit of HF
> work during my weekend visits. Besides, they also have a couple of
> unused silos, with cavities 15 ft in diameter and about 40 ft height.
> I wonder if such cavities in series would be tight enough to provide
> enough selectivity for CW work. They also have a huge pistoning lid
> hanging inside from a crane, which could be used for tuning. So
> perhaps they could provide ALL the filtering right at the fundamental
> frequency, like: rhombic antenna -> coupler -> silo 1 -> coupler ->
> silo 2 -> coupler -> product detector -> audio chain. Too bad they're
> reinforced concrete and would need lining. A neighbour & friend has
> new, shiny, airtight aluminum ones. His son is an electrical
> engineer. Hmmmm.
>
>
> Please do laugh, but comment constructively! I am an ignorant
> coil-winder. Where do I read up on resonators and coupling? I would
> not mind experimenting with a stack of barrel-sized filters if the
> numbers warrant it.
>

I'm not laughing! In the 60's, we had a problem with a shielded room.
The electrical noise within it was horrendous. It turned out that the
room size happened to be just right to resonate with the radiation from
the gigantic 5 MW SAGE radar which was just hundreds of feet away. the
solution was to move the sensitive gear out of that room and to another.
There was no way we could modify the radar nor the room; esp. the radar
which had a football field sized rotating antenna.

Al

--
There's never enough time to do it right the first time.......

[Michael Black]

SpamLover ) writes:
> Just out of curiosity - Did anyone ever try a cabinet-sized or
> room-sized cavity resonator as roof filter in a HF receiving system?
>
Someone did some work with 10meter cavities out of oil drums. He
wrote about it in 73 back in 1970 or so. But his goal wasn't
the cavities, but some weird modulation scheme that I'm not sure
really made sense, so I don't think the articles gave a lot of
detail to the cavities, and since the whole thing seemed hair-brained,
it might not be the best source of experience on HF cavities.

In the June (or maybe it was May?) 1972 issue of QST, there was
an article about making a filter out of a metal garbage can for
2meters. But of course, at those frequencies, a cavity is not
an exceptional sight.

There have been some articles, in QST and I think Ham Radio (in
the mid-seventies) about HF helical coils. That sort of filter
might be more realistic than a cavity at HF.

Michael VE2BVW

[Michael Black]

SpamLover ) writes:
> Just out of curiosity - Did anyone ever try a cabinet-sized or
> room-sized cavity resonator as roof filter in a HF receiving system?
>
Someone did some work with 10meter cavities out of oil drums. He
wrote about it in 73 back in 1970 or so. But his goal wasn't
the cavities, but some weird modulation scheme that I'm not sure
really made sense, so I don't think the articles gave a lot of
detail to the cavities, and since the whole thing seemed hair-brained,
it might not be the best source of experience on HF cavities.

In the June (or maybe it was May?) 1972 issue of QST, there was
an article about making a filter out of a metal garbage can for
2meters. But of course, at those frequencies, a cavity is not
an exceptional sight.

There have been some articles, in QST and I think Ham Radio (in
the mid-seventies) about HF helical coils. That sort of filter
might be more realistic than a cavity at HF.

Michael VE2BVW

[OK1SIP]

(SpamLover) wrote in message >...
> Just out of curiosity - Did anyone ever try a cabinet-sized or
> room-sized cavity resonator as roof filter in a HF receiving system?
>
> I've trawled a bit for construction details, and found that a squat
> cylindrical resonator may have a radius of a quarter wave, so say...

Hi Filippo,
some experience is described by Harry SM0VPO at
http://w1.859.telia.com/~u85920178/use/cavity.htm He worked from 28
to 1300 MHz. The biggest object he used was an old galvanised dustbin.

BR from Ivan

[OK1SIP]

(SpamLover) wrote in message >...
> Just out of curiosity - Did anyone ever try a cabinet-sized or
> room-sized cavity resonator as roof filter in a HF receiving system?
>
> I've trawled a bit for construction details, and found that a squat
> cylindrical resonator may have a radius of a quarter wave, so say...

Hi Filippo,
some experience is described by Harry SM0VPO at
http://w1.859.telia.com/~u85920178/use/cavity.htm He worked from 28
to 1300 MHz. The biggest object he used was an old galvanised dustbin.

BR from Ivan

[Dr. Grok]

In article >, (Michael Black) wrote:
>SpamLover ) writes:
>> Just out of curiosity - Did anyone ever try a cabinet-sized or
>> room-sized cavity resonator as roof filter in a HF receiving system?
>>
>Someone did some work with 10meter cavities out of oil drums. He
>wrote about it in 73 back in 1970 or so. But his goal wasn't
>the cavities, but some weird modulation scheme that I'm not sure
>really made sense, so I don't think the articles gave a lot of
>detail to the cavities, and since the whole thing seemed hair-brained,
>it might not be the best source of experience on HF cavities.
>
>In the June (or maybe it was May?) 1972 issue of QST, there was
>an article about making a filter out of a metal garbage can for
>2meters. But of course, at those frequencies, a cavity is not
>an exceptional sight.
>
>There have been some articles, in QST and I think Ham Radio (in
>the mid-seventies) about HF helical coils. That sort of filter
>might be more realistic than a cavity at HF.

At a ham flea market some years back someone was selling a 10m cavity -- I
think it might have started life as a hot water tank.

Dr. G.
>
> Michael VE2BVW
>

[Dr. Grok]

In article >, (Michael Black) wrote:
>SpamLover ) writes:
>> Just out of curiosity - Did anyone ever try a cabinet-sized or
>> room-sized cavity resonator as roof filter in a HF receiving system?
>>
>Someone did some work with 10meter cavities out of oil drums. He
>wrote about it in 73 back in 1970 or so. But his goal wasn't
>the cavities, but some weird modulation scheme that I'm not sure
>really made sense, so I don't think the articles gave a lot of
>detail to the cavities, and since the whole thing seemed hair-brained,
>it might not be the best source of experience on HF cavities.
>
>In the June (or maybe it was May?) 1972 issue of QST, there was
>an article about making a filter out of a metal garbage can for
>2meters. But of course, at those frequencies, a cavity is not
>an exceptional sight.
>
>There have been some articles, in QST and I think Ham Radio (in
>the mid-seventies) about HF helical coils. That sort of filter
>might be more realistic than a cavity at HF.

At a ham flea market some years back someone was selling a 10m cavity -- I
think it might have started life as a hot water tank.

Dr. G.
>
> Michael VE2BVW
>

[SpamLover]

Thank you all for your support w/ cavities!

I'll first do more research,
then I'll post more questions
on sci.med.dentistry

[SpamLover]

Thank you all for your support w/ cavities!

I'll first do more research,
then I'll post more questions
on sci.med.dentistry