Cold/Heat

[Clark]

How many of you have rushed out to get one of the Cold/Heat soldering irons.
Runs off of 4 AA batteries WOW! allot of energy in those babies, most likely
good for one PL259 soldering job.

[konstans@hotmail.com]

On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 23:05:27 -0600, "Clark" > wrote:

>How many of you have rushed out to get one of the Cold/Heat soldering irons.
>Runs off of 4 AA batteries WOW! allot of energy in those babies, most likely
>good for one PL259 soldering job.

just trying to stir up trouble
>

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[konstans@hotmail.com]

On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 00:36:54 -0600, "DrDeath"
> wrote:

> wrote in message
...
>> On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 23:05:27 -0600, "Clark" > wrote:
>>
>>>How many of you have rushed out to get one of the Cold/Heat soldering
>>>irons.
>>>Runs off of 4 AA batteries WOW! allot of energy in those babies, most
>>>likely
>>>good for one PL259 soldering job.
>>
>> just trying to stir up trouble
>
>Sounds like he's on topic to me. Looks like your the troller.

not to me looks like he wants to sart a fight flaming over soldier
irons

if that is ontopic
>

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[DrDeath]

"Clark" > wrote in message
...
> How many of you have rushed out to get one of the Cold/Heat soldering
> irons.
> Runs off of 4 AA batteries WOW! allot of energy in those babies, most
> likely
> good for one PL259 soldering job.
>
>

They show them soldering an IC. I don't think the IC would like that.

[DrDeath]

> wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 23:05:27 -0600, "Clark" > wrote:
>
>>How many of you have rushed out to get one of the Cold/Heat soldering
>>irons.
>>Runs off of 4 AA batteries WOW! allot of energy in those babies, most
>>likely
>>good for one PL259 soldering job.
>
> just trying to stir up trouble

Sounds like he's on topic to me. Looks like your the troller.

[Vinnie S.]

On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 01:22:54 -0500, wrote:

>On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 00:36:54 -0600, "DrDeath"
> wrote:
>
> wrote in message
...
>>> On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 23:05:27 -0600, "Clark" > wrote:
>>>
>>>>How many of you have rushed out to get one of the Cold/Heat soldering
>>>>irons.
>>>>Runs off of 4 AA batteries WOW! allot of energy in those babies, most
>>>>likely
>>>>good for one PL259 soldering job.
>>>
>>> just trying to stir up trouble
>>
>>Sounds like he's on topic to me. Looks like your the troller.
>
>not to me looks like he wants to sart a fight flaming over soldier
>irons
>
>if that is ontopic


How do you star a flame war on soldering irons?

Vinnie S.

[Scott in Baltimore]

> How do you star a flame war on soldering irons?

With a butane powered iron?

[Homer]

They are not that good. A friend broke a tip already. They have a
double, very fragile tip and you have to bridge the two with metal to
make the connection.

Homer

[Vinnie S.]

On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 09:52:04 -0500, Scott in Baltimore
> wrote:

>> How do you star a flame war on soldering irons?
>
>With a butane powered iron?


I guess you can !

Vinnie S.

[AB@C.com]

Yeah, and watch out for the freezer burns if you touch the tip....man do
they sting!. I see you've got the double tip job, left hand screw right tip
and the right hand screw left tip!, excellent. Did you also purchase the
liquid nitrogen cored solder? I hear there's a special offer on it just now
with a price freeze nationwide.

Duhnse

[who gives a schlitz]

On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 09:52:04 -0500, Scott in Baltimore
> wrote:

>> How do you star a flame war on soldering irons?
>
>With a butane powered iron?

With a propane torch?

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[DrDeath]

> wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 00:36:54 -0600, "DrDeath"
> > wrote:
>
> wrote in message
...
>>> On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 23:05:27 -0600, "Clark" > wrote:
>>>
>>>>How many of you have rushed out to get one of the Cold/Heat soldering
>>>>irons.
>>>>Runs off of 4 AA batteries WOW! allot of energy in those babies, most
>>>>likely
>>>>good for one PL259 soldering job.
>>>
>>> just trying to stir up trouble
>>
>>Sounds like he's on topic to me. Looks like your the troller.
>
> not to me looks like he wants to sart a fight flaming over soldier
> irons
>
> if that is ontopic

There was no flame on his part, just an opinion. Soldering irons and other
tools are on topic with this group. Has he brought it up in
alt.sex.gangbangs, I could see you having a beef with that.

[Professor]

Depends what you're soldering... for very small low mass jobs... that
cool heat soldering iron might be fine. For electronics work...
probably not very useful.

Professor
www.telstar-electronics.com

[Carl N9EFJ]

I did and every time I needed it for what IT IS, it worked very well.

Still using the same batteries it came with. At least a year now. Used it
about 6 times
in situations that required a device as it is advertised.

The2x4


"Clark" > wrote in message
...
> How many of you have rushed out to get one of the Cold/Heat soldering
> irons.
> Runs off of 4 AA batteries WOW! allot of energy in those babies, most
> likely
> good for one PL259 soldering job.
>
>

[Programbo]

How many watts is one of these things equal to?

[U-Know-Who]

"Programbo" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> How many watts is one of these things equal to?
>

You want that in "Bird" watts?

[Professor]

LOL... think you've exposed the root problem here. That thing couldn't
be anywhere near the power of a regular soldering iron in the 30-50W
range.

Professor
www.telstar-electronics.com

[james]

On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 23:05:27 -0600, "Clark" > wrote:

>+<How many of you have rushed out to get one of the Cold/Heat soldering irons.
>+<Runs off of 4 AA batteries WOW! allot of energy in those babies, most likely
>+<good for one PL259 soldering job.
>+<
******

That type of soldering iron is not intended for that kind of use.
Instead it is actually a good iron for small surface area heating and
even surface mounted parts.

Alkaline AA batteries are rated between 1600 to 1900 milliamp/hour.

james

[james]

On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 00:34:33 -0600, "DrDeath"
> wrote:

>+<"Clark" > wrote in message
...
>+<> How many of you have rushed out to get one of the Cold/Heat soldering
>+<> irons.
>+<> Runs off of 4 AA batteries WOW! allot of energy in those babies, most
>+<> likely
>+<> good for one PL259 soldering job.
>+<>
>+<>
>+<
>+<They show them soldering an IC. I don't think the IC would like that.
>+<
********

Most ICs are tolerent to 400 degrees celsius for up to 10 seconds when
heat is applied to the pin. In IR assited reflow ovens, most
components on the board are subject to 275 degree C heat upwards of 45
to 90 seconds. Total reflow process time for surface mounted
components in a reflow oven is between 5 and 7 minutes. Most of that
will determine the pallete material that act as carrier for the PCBs.

FR4/5 laminate material will withstand heat around 300 degrees C for 7
to 10 minutes without discoloration or delamination.


james

[james]

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 21:15:49 GMT, Lancer > wrote:

>+<On 10 Jan 2006 10:34:14 -0800, "Professor"
> wrote:
>+<
>+<>Depends what you're soldering... for very small low mass jobs... that
>+<>cool heat soldering iron might be fine. For electronics work...
>+<>probably not very useful.
>+<>
>+<>Professor
>+<>www.telstar-electronics.com
>+<
>+<You wouldn't want to use it on Electronics, IC's and such, since the
>+<tip isn't grounded.
******

Actually cordless soldering irons are preffered in small static
senesitive areas. Larger wattage irons that are plugged into AC
outlets can do more damage than cordless irons with static sensitive
parts.

james

[Professor]

Well... you guys can play around with your little toy soldering iron.
I'll continue to use my http://www.hexaconelectric.com/thermo.html

Professor
www.telstar-electronics.com

[Scott in Baltimore]

> Actually cordless soldering irons are preffered in small static
> senesitive areas. Larger wattage irons that are plugged into AC
> outlets can do more damage than cordless irons with static sensitive
> parts.

I use a 12 VDC iron plugged into a 13.8 V ps for sensitive stuff.

[DrDeath]

"james" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 00:34:33 -0600, "DrDeath"
> > wrote:
>
>>+<"Clark" > wrote in message
...
>>+<> How many of you have rushed out to get one of the Cold/Heat soldering
>>+<> irons.
>>+<> Runs off of 4 AA batteries WOW! allot of energy in those babies, most
>>+<> likely
>>+<> good for one PL259 soldering job.
>>+<>
>>+<>
>>+<
>>+<They show them soldering an IC. I don't think the IC would like that.
>>+<
> ********
>
> Most ICs are tolerent to 400 degrees celsius for up to 10 seconds when
> heat is applied to the pin. In IR assited reflow ovens, most
> components on the board are subject to 275 degree C heat upwards of 45
> to 90 seconds. Total reflow process time for surface mounted
> components in a reflow oven is between 5 and 7 minutes. Most of that
> will determine the pallete material that act as carrier for the PCBs.
>
> FR4/5 laminate material will withstand heat around 300 degrees C for 7
> to 10 minutes without discoloration or delamination.
>
>
> james
>
>
I haven't had a chance to see one in person. But from the commercial, it
appears to look like an arc. That can't be good for sensitive electronics. I
think I'll stick to my Hakko or my butane until I've had a chance to use
one.

[DrDeath]

"Lancer" > wrote in message
news:43c7a6c4.83866046@2355323778...
> On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 22:07:17 -0500, Scott in Baltimore
> > wrote:
>
>>> Actually cordless soldering irons are preffered in small static
>>> senesitive areas. Larger wattage irons that are plugged into AC
>>> outlets can do more damage than cordless irons with static sensitive
>>> parts.
>>
>>I use a 12 VDC iron plugged into a 13.8 V ps for sensitive stuff.
>
> Scott;
> Its not the power it runs on, its the difference in potential
> between the tip and the device your soldering. If the tips not at the
> same potential (I.E. static) you can damage the component.

But you can ground yourself to the project at hand and use a butane iron.

[Scott in Baltimore]

DrDeath wrote:
> "Lancer" > wrote in message
> news:43c7a6c4.83866046@2355323778...
>
>>On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 22:07:17 -0500, Scott in Baltimore
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>Actually cordless soldering irons are preffered in small static
>>>>senesitive areas. Larger wattage irons that are plugged into AC
>>>>outlets can do more damage than cordless irons with static sensitive
>>>>parts.
>>>
>>>I use a 12 VDC iron plugged into a 13.8 V ps for sensitive stuff.
>>
>>Scott;
>> Its not the power it runs on, its the difference in potential
>>between the tip and the device your soldering. If the tips not at the
>>same potential (I.E. static) you can damage the component.
>
>
> But you can ground yourself to the project at hand and use a butane iron.
>
>

I never saw Lancer's post. Glad you quoted it.

I have another iron that's AC. I connected a wire to the heater's frame and
run that to the screw on the outlet. It drops the 40 volts leakage to about
1 or 2 volts. Make sure the item is unplugged that you're working on! There
should be a resistor between the frame and the ground to prevent mucho current
from flowing. There are 1Mohm resistors in a grounding strap to limit current
way below 100 mA if you should touch a 120 VAC line while grounded.

[Clark]

All that thing is two pieces of carbon conduction elements that uses the
piece that needs soldering as the circuit short causing the heat, there is 6
volts DC between the two ends.
Oh by the way, the tip does get HOT and will burn the **** out of you after
soldering for 5 seconds., even after 20 seconds of cooling off. In the
commercial it shows a guy touching the tip right after using it. His fingers
must have been soaked in cold water first.


"Professor" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Well... you guys can play around with your little toy soldering iron.
> I'll continue to use my http://www.hexaconelectric.com/thermo.html
>
> Professor
> www.telstar-electronics.com
>

[Professor]

Thanks for the info about the carbon tips. Very simple indeed...
problem is... doesn't work very well... LOL

Professor
www.telstar-electronics.com

[Steveo]

Lancer > wrote:
>>
> How do you ground Butane...:-)
>
On a spit rotisserie?

[DrDeath]

"Lancer" > wrote in message
news:ccu8s197974f7ine2st9hbev58bs0j25ce@2355323778 ...
> On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 13:50:30 -0600, "DrDeath"
> > wrote:
>
>>"Lancer" > wrote in message
>>news:43c7a6c4.83866046@2355323778...
>>> On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 22:07:17 -0500, Scott in Baltimore
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Actually cordless soldering irons are preffered in small static
>>>>> senesitive areas. Larger wattage irons that are plugged into AC
>>>>> outlets can do more damage than cordless irons with static sensitive
>>>>> parts.
>>>>
>>>>I use a 12 VDC iron plugged into a 13.8 V ps for sensitive stuff.
>>>
>>> Scott;
>>> Its not the power it runs on, its the difference in potential
>>> between the tip and the device your soldering. If the tips not at the
>>> same potential (I.E. static) you can damage the component.
>>
>>But you can ground yourself to the project at hand and use a butane iron.
>>
>
> As long as everything is at the same potential...
>
> How do you ground Butane...:-)
>
>

I sell butane grounding equipment for the measly price of 4 payments of
99.95 make checks and M.O. to cash. LOL

[Steveo]

"DrDeath" > wrote:
>> I sell butane grounding equipment for the measly price of 4 payments of
> 99.95 make checks and M.O. to cash. LOL
>
Hook me up! lol

[PowerHouse Communications]

"Professor" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Well... you guys can play around with your little toy soldering iron.
> I'll continue to use my http://www.hexaconelectric.com/thermo.html
>

Not bad, but I like mine better... XyTronic XY26-60D. An older model that
looks exactly like this unit http://www.xytronic-usa.com/960a_index.htm#esd,
aside from a color difference... Same specs...

[Professor]

Yes... that looks like a nice unit also.

Professor
www.telstar-electronics.com

[james]

On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 13:47:49 -0600, "DrDeath"
> wrote:

>+<"james" > wrote in message
...
>+<> On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 00:34:33 -0600, "DrDeath"
>+<> > wrote:
>+<>
>+<>>+<"Clark" > wrote in message
...
>+<>>+<> How many of you have rushed out to get one of the Cold/Heat soldering
>+<>>+<> irons.
>+<>>+<> Runs off of 4 AA batteries WOW! allot of energy in those babies, most
>+<>>+<> likely
>+<>>+<> good for one PL259 soldering job.
>+<>>+<>
>+<>>+<>
>+<>>+<
>+<>>+<They show them soldering an IC. I don't think the IC would like that.
>+<>>+<
>+<> ********
>+<>
>+<> Most ICs are tolerent to 400 degrees celsius for up to 10 seconds when
>+<> heat is applied to the pin. In IR assited reflow ovens, most
>+<> components on the board are subject to 275 degree C heat upwards of 45
>+<> to 90 seconds. Total reflow process time for surface mounted
>+<> components in a reflow oven is between 5 and 7 minutes. Most of that
>+<> will determine the pallete material that act as carrier for the PCBs.
>+<>
>+<> FR4/5 laminate material will withstand heat around 300 degrees C for 7
>+<> to 10 minutes without discoloration or delamination.
>+<>
>+<>
>+<> james
>+<>
>+<>
>+<I haven't had a chance to see one in person. But from the commercial, it
>+<appears to look like an arc. That can't be good for sensitive electronics. I
>+<think I'll stick to my Hakko or my butane until I've had a chance to use
>+<one.
>+<
*****

No it is not an arc. One possibility is a conductive ceraminc alloy.
That would at least explain the rapid heat and cool down periods.
There are ceramics that can conduct and dissapate heat rather rapidly.

As for the Hakko, the hot air Hakko reflow units are real good for
surface mount devices. The only other item that I found better for
large ICs, 208 pin TQFPs is a hot plate.


james

[james]

On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 13:12:19 GMT, Lancer > wrote:

>+<On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 22:07:17 -0500, Scott in Baltimore
> wrote:
>+<
>+<>> Actually cordless soldering irons are preffered in small static
>+<>> senesitive areas. Larger wattage irons that are plugged into AC
>+<>> outlets can do more damage than cordless irons with static sensitive
>+<>> parts.
>+<>
>+<>I use a 12 VDC iron plugged into a 13.8 V ps for sensitive stuff.
>+<
>+<Scott;
>+< Its not the power it runs on, its the difference in potential
>+<between the tip and the device your soldering. If the tips not at the
>+<same potential (I.E. static) you can damage the component.
****

If you are working on a static free surface it really does not matter
which iron you use.

The most refered is hot air tools to remove static parts. Hakko makes
one as well as many others.

james

[james]

On 12 Jan 2006 10:32:57 -0800, "Professor"
> wrote:

>+<Well... you guys can play around with your little toy soldering iron.
>+<I'll continue to use my http://www.hexaconelectric.com/thermo.html
>+<
>+<Professor
>+<www.telstar-electronics.com
******

FOr most surface mounted work I prefer a hot plate. Cheaper than hot
air rework stations and just as reliable.

james

[james]

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 18:51:25 GMT, Lancer > wrote:

>+<On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 17:12:48 GMT, james > wrote:
>+<
>+<>On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 13:47:49 -0600, "DrDeath"
> wrote:
>+<>
>+<>>+<"james" > wrote in message
...
>+<>>+<> On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 00:34:33 -0600, "DrDeath"
>+<>>+<> > wrote:
>+<>>+<>
>+<>>+<>>+<"Clark" > wrote in message
...
>+<>>+<>>+<> How many of you have rushed out to get one of the Cold/Heat soldering
>+<>>+<>>+<> irons.
>+<>>+<>>+<> Runs off of 4 AA batteries WOW! allot of energy in those babies, most
>+<>>+<>>+<> likely
>+<>>+<>>+<> good for one PL259 soldering job.
>+<>>+<>>+<>
>+<>>+<>>+<>
>+<>>+<>>+<
>+<>>+<>>+<They show them soldering an IC. I don't think the IC would like that.
>+<>>+<>>+<
>+<>>+<> ********
>+<>>+<>
>+<>>+<> Most ICs are tolerent to 400 degrees celsius for up to 10 seconds when
>+<>>+<> heat is applied to the pin. In IR assited reflow ovens, most
>+<>>+<> components on the board are subject to 275 degree C heat upwards of 45
>+<>>+<> to 90 seconds. Total reflow process time for surface mounted
>+<>>+<> components in a reflow oven is between 5 and 7 minutes. Most of that
>+<>>+<> will determine the pallete material that act as carrier for the PCBs.
>+<>>+<>
>+<>>+<> FR4/5 laminate material will withstand heat around 300 degrees C for 7
>+<>>+<> to 10 minutes without discoloration or delamination.
>+<>>+<>
>+<>>+<>
>+<>>+<> james
>+<>>+<>
>+<>>+<>
>+<>>+<I haven't had a chance to see one in person. But from the commercial, it
>+<>>+<appears to look like an arc. That can't be good for sensitive electronics. I
>+<>>+<think I'll stick to my Hakko or my butane until I've had a chance to use
>+<>>+<one.
>+<>>+<
>+<>*****
>+<>
>+<>No it is not an arc. One possibility is a conductive ceraminc alloy.
>+<>That would at least explain the rapid heat and cool down periods.
>+<>There are ceramics that can conduct and dissapate heat rather rapidly.
>+<
>+<Yes it is an arc, I have one.
>+<
>+<>
>+<>As for the Hakko, the hot air Hakko reflow units are real good for
>+<>surface mount devices. The only other item that I found better for
>+<>large ICs, 208 pin TQFPs is a hot plate.
>+<>
>+<>
>+<>james
>+<
>+<Even with a hot plate, you still need hot air on top on the desired
>+<component. Or are you planning on removing all the componets? My hot
>+<plate is set to just below the temperature that the solder will flow.
>+<A quic k blast of hot air to remove the component.
*****

I have used a hot plate exclusively. No hot air assist. There is no
problem with the reheat. The board is on the hot plate and off in one
to two minutes max. I have even reflowed BGA chips with little
difficulty and no loss of reliability.

james

[james]

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 18:46:25 GMT, Lancer > wrote:

>+<Thats total bull****...What happens if your tip has a 1,000 of static
>+<on it? ESD control is supposed to eliminate the difference in
>+<potential. ANSI ESD standards state that "everything should be at the
>+<same potential" That means the operator or person, all test equipment
>+<and irons. Why don't you do a search on ANSI ESD standards and find
>+<out for yourself... You are cluesless about ESD...
****

IF you are properly grounded, once you grab the handle of the
soldering iron it will within seconds no longer be at 1000 volts
potential. Maybe you should also read your Ansi Standards a bit more
and understand static prevention. Once you are grounded touching any
other ungrounded object will dissapate the charge built in it. That
charge will drain through your body to ground within a very short
period.

Besides most ICs can shrug off 1KV with no damage. It is neat to see
what a 15KV jolt does to the poly layers and the protective zeners on
an IC. If you ever get a chance to do some electron scanning of static
damage to the die pad area of an IC, do so. It is a really neat to see
what 15KV can do.

james

[james]

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 18:53:22 GMT, Lancer > wrote:

>+<On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 17:17:57 GMT, james > wrote:
>+<
>+<>On 12 Jan 2006 10:32:57 -0800, "Professor"
> wrote:
>+<>
>+<>>+<Well... you guys can play around with your little toy soldering iron.
>+<>>+<I'll continue to use my http://www.hexaconelectric.com/thermo.html
>+<>>+<
>+<>>+<Professor
>+<>>+<www.telstar-electronics.com
>+<>******
>+<>
>+<>FOr most surface mounted work I prefer a hot plate. Cheaper than hot
>+<>air rework stations and just as reliable.
>+<>
>+<>james
>+<
>+<Is that a George Foreman hot plate?
>+<
*****

Actually one that is generally used in a chemistry lab. 4 inch square
top surface or even a 3 inch diameter round will do nicely on small
PCBs that are about 2 - 4 square inches.

Oh it also is nice to place the PCB on a alumina ceramic plate about
100 mils think which sits on top of the hot plate. Makes a nice smooth
surface to slide the PCB off after heating it. A second ceramic plate
is nice to slide the PCB on to let is cool down on.

james

[gwb]

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 03:27:51 GMT, james > wrote:

>On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 18:46:25 GMT, Lancer > wrote:
>
>>+<Thats total bull****...What happens if your tip has a 1,000 of static
>>+<on it? ESD control is supposed to eliminate the difference in
>>+<potential. ANSI ESD standards state that "everything should be at the
>>+<same potential" That means the operator or person, all test equipment
>>+<and irons. Why don't you do a search on ANSI ESD standards and find
>>+<out for yourself... You are cluesless about ESD...
>****
>
>IF you are properly grounded, once you grab the handle of the
>soldering iron it will within seconds no longer be at 1000 volts
>potential. Maybe you should also read your Ansi Standards a bit more
>and understand static prevention. Once you are grounded touching any
>other ungrounded object will dissapate the charge built in it. That
>charge will drain through your body to ground within a very short
>period.
>
>Besides most ICs can shrug off 1KV with no damage. It is neat to see
>what a 15KV jolt does to the poly layers and the protective zeners on
>an IC. If you ever get a chance to do some electron scanning of static
>damage to the die pad area of an IC, do so. It is a really neat to see
>what 15KV can do.
>
>james

you evidently have never worked for a large company such as Northern
Telecom. If you mentioned you understanding of ESD during an
interview they would laugh you out the door. You are 30 years behind
in your ESD knowledge.

[james]

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 21:26:35 GMT, gwb > wrote:

>+<On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 03:27:51 GMT, james > wrote:
>+<
>+<>On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 18:46:25 GMT, Lancer > wrote:
>+<>
>+<>>+<Thats total bull****...What happens if your tip has a 1,000 of static
>+<>>+<on it? ESD control is supposed to eliminate the difference in
>+<>>+<potential. ANSI ESD standards state that "everything should be at the
>+<>>+<same potential" That means the operator or person, all test equipment
>+<>>+<and irons. Why don't you do a search on ANSI ESD standards and find
>+<>>+<out for yourself... You are cluesless about ESD...
>+<>****
>+<>
>+<>IF you are properly grounded, once you grab the handle of the
>+<>soldering iron it will within seconds no longer be at 1000 volts
>+<>potential. Maybe you should also read your Ansi Standards a bit more
>+<>and understand static prevention. Once you are grounded touching any
>+<>other ungrounded object will dissapate the charge built in it. That
>+<>charge will drain through your body to ground within a very short
>+<>period.
>+<>
>+<>Besides most ICs can shrug off 1KV with no damage. It is neat to see
>+<>what a 15KV jolt does to the poly layers and the protective zeners on
>+<>an IC. If you ever get a chance to do some electron scanning of static
>+<>damage to the die pad area of an IC, do so. It is a really neat to see
>+<>what 15KV can do.
>+<>
>+<>james
>+<
>+<you evidently have never worked for a large company such as Northern
>+<Telecom. If you mentioned you understanding of ESD during an
>+<interview they would laugh you out the door. You are 30 years behind
>+<in your ESD knowledge.
******
Actually more like four or five years behind. I will admit that I am
not fully abreast on the 1999 ANSI standards.

Son I have worked in enough ESD sensitive areas for the better part of
23 yrs. You and others are very good in quoting standards, but have
really failed to understand what ESD is, how it generates and what is
needed to combat ESD. Various areas of the US is far more suspectable
to ESD than other areas of the US. Cold dry areas are more susceptable
tham humid and warmer areas.

My knowledge of ESD is good enough that I do not have to worry if I
ever decided to work for a large corporation again.

james

[james]

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 13:31:56 GMT, Lancer > wrote:

>+< Maybe you should read Ansi standard ANSI/ESD-S20-1999. It states
>+<Soldering Irons should have a tip to ground resistance of less than 1
>+<ohm. Companies spends tons of money each year to prevent static
>+<damge, and that icludes insuring that everything is at the same
>+<potential. Including the operator and all equipment he uses. Thats
>+<why iron's that are ANSI rated have a third wire, the ground. It
>+<wasn't put there to prevent the user from being "shocked"
******

maybe you should study Coulomb's and Guass' Law and understand how
Static Charges are developed. A soldering iron sitting on a
anti-static mat plugged into the wall is not going to develope large
electrostatic charge.

What does happen is the tip of a soldering iron is in the strong field
of a time varying magnetic field. This comes from the inductance in
the heater coil. Putting the tip at ground potential will eliminate
any potential charge build up from the time varying magnetic field
from teh heater coil.

Battery operated soldering do not have time varying magnetic fields
near the tip. It will have a static magnetic field that is often far
weaker than that of a soldering iron that operates on 120VAC.

In ESD it is the rapid movement of charge that will do the damage.
Rapid movement of electric charge will result in high current in a
very shor time frame. Ampere's Law. Damage is severe when the change
in charge(Q) versus change in time(T), dQ/dT, is very small. The slow
movement of charge results in low current and therefore damage is
minimalized.

Yes repeated strikes of low level electrostatic charge can be as
damaging as one big strike of electrostatic charge movement.


james

[U-Know-Who]

"james" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 21:26:35 GMT, gwb > wrote:
>
>>+<On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 03:27:51 GMT, james > wrote:
>>+<
>>+<>On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 18:46:25 GMT, Lancer > wrote:
>>+<>
>>+<>>+<Thats total bull****...What happens if your tip has a 1,000 of
>>static
>>+<>>+<on it? ESD control is supposed to eliminate the difference in
>>+<>>+<potential. ANSI ESD standards state that "everything should be at
>>the
>>+<>>+<same potential" That means the operator or person, all test
>>equipment
>>+<>>+<and irons. Why don't you do a search on ANSI ESD standards and find
>>+<>>+<out for yourself... You are cluesless about ESD...
>>+<>****
>>+<>
>>+<>IF you are properly grounded, once you grab the handle of the
>>+<>soldering iron it will within seconds no longer be at 1000 volts
>>+<>potential. Maybe you should also read your Ansi Standards a bit more
>>+<>and understand static prevention. Once you are grounded touching any
>>+<>other ungrounded object will dissapate the charge built in it. That
>>+<>charge will drain through your body to ground within a very short
>>+<>period.
>>+<>
>>+<>Besides most ICs can shrug off 1KV with no damage. It is neat to see
>>+<>what a 15KV jolt does to the poly layers and the protective zeners on
>>+<>an IC. If you ever get a chance to do some electron scanning of static
>>+<>damage to the die pad area of an IC, do so. It is a really neat to see
>>+<>what 15KV can do.
>>+<>
>>+<>james
>>+<
>>+<you evidently have never worked for a large company such as Northern
>>+<Telecom. If you mentioned you understanding of ESD during an
>>+<interview they would laugh you out the door. You are 30 years behind
>>+<in your ESD knowledge.
> ******
> Actually more like four or five years behind. I will admit that I am
> not fully abreast on the 1999 ANSI standards.
>
> Son I have worked in enough ESD sensitive areas for the better part of
> 23 yrs. You and others are very good in quoting standards, but have
> really failed to understand what ESD is, how it generates and what is
> needed to combat ESD. Various areas of the US is far more suspectable
> to ESD than other areas of the US. Cold dry areas are more susceptable
> tham humid and warmer areas.
>

Here in southeast Texas, we have like 7 days every winter when you have to
worry about it. The rest of the time you have to wear a sweatband to keep
the moisture out of your work.



> My knowledge of ESD is good enough that I do not have to worry if I
> ever decided to work for a large corporation again.
>
> james

[Steveo]

Lancer > wrote:
>> Hey, Wal-mart is hiring... thats a large corporation..
>
> Lancer
>
I wanna be a greeter' when I'm 75. Gimme' the smock. hehe

[Steveo]

Lancer > wrote:
>> So far we haven't had any winter.. looks like another year with 5 or 6
> months of over a 100 degree weather...
>
That's bad man. You guys need rain and cooler temps no doubt. I almost feel
guilty going from cold ass snow to rain over here in the Buckeye. Wish I
could send some of it your way Lance. I seen some of those lawn fires on
the teevee..how close was that **** to you?

Ya' hate to ask for a deluge for fear of flood, but you guys need your
ground soaked just for old times sake by now..

[Steveo]

Lancer > wrote:
> On 18 Jan 2006 23:33:08 GMT, Steveo > wrote:
>
> >Lancer > wrote:
> >>> Hey, Wal-mart is hiring... thats a large corporation..
> >>
> >> Lancer
> >>
> >I wanna be a greeter' when I'm 75. Gimme' the smock. hehe
>
> I love the greeters, nicest people in the store...
>
No doubt, perhaps you could strive to be one once you're old and creaking.

[Steveo]

Lancer > wrote:
> On 18 Jan 2006 23:42:25 GMT, Steveo > wrote:
>
> >Lancer > wrote:
> >>> So far we haven't had any winter.. looks like another year with 5 or
> >>> 6
> >> months of over a 100 degree weather...
> >>
> >That's bad man. You guys need rain and cooler temps no doubt. I almost
> >feel guilty going from cold ass snow to rain over here in the Buckeye.
> >Wish I could send some of it your way Lance. I seen some of those lawn
> >fires on the teevee..how close was that **** to you?
>
> Some were a few miles away, I set my deck on tractor as low as it
> would go. And then took the wheels off the deck, cut everything
> around the house right down to bare dirt..
> >
>
That's pretty ****ed up, even if you speak Spanish and swing a machete'.
You guys are toasted..:(
>
>
> >Ya' hate to ask for a deluge for fear of flood, but you guys need your
> >ground soaked just for old times sake by now..
>
> We do need the rain, even my old shrubs like photinias are turning
> brown..
>
We are almost flooding in my little area, dang.

[Steveo]

Lancer > wrote:
> On 18 Jan 2006 23:45:33 GMT, Steveo > wrote:
>
> >Lancer > wrote:
> >> On 18 Jan 2006 23:33:08 GMT, Steveo > wrote:
> >>
> >> >Lancer > wrote:
> >> >>> Hey, Wal-mart is hiring... thats a large corporation..
> >> >>
> >> >> Lancer
> >> >>
> >> >I wanna be a greeter' when I'm 75. Gimme' the smock. hehe
> >>
> >> I love the greeters, nicest people in the store...
> >>
> >No doubt, perhaps you could strive to be one once you're old and
> >creaking.
>
> Nah, We have our eyes on a motor home... sell the house and travel..
> all we will need is beer money and gas money... :-)
>
Sweet program. Yore always welcome with free hook-up in Medina, old man.
(ewe new dat)

Gonna bring a couple good pics back from Daytona? Get one of Sterling
Marlin if you get the chance, please. :)

[james]

Lancer

This simple drivel has done nothing but dwindle done to a ****ing
contest and I am put of ****.

I recogneize that there are ANSI standards and I don't disagree with
any of them. I also have years of education and practical experience
with electrrostatics and how it forms and how it discharges. I don't
have to prove anything to a twit like you that can only quote
standards like it is a bible of some sorts.

You are arguing an issue by throwing standards up and I don't care to
argue standards. I made a statement and I still stand by it. All you
have done is through some standards in my face and failed to disprove
my statement.

Until you can prove me wrong in my original statement, I suggest that
any further discourse is a wate of my time and the internet bandwidth.

james


On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 23:21:18 GMT, Lancer > wrote:

>+<On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:53:53 GMT, james > wrote:
>+<
>+<>On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 13:31:56 GMT, Lancer > wrote:
>+<>
>+<>>+< Maybe you should read Ansi standard ANSI/ESD-S20-1999. It states
>+<>>+<Soldering Irons should have a tip to ground resistance of less than 1
>+<>>+<ohm. Companies spends tons of money each year to prevent static
>+<>>+<damge, and that icludes insuring that everything is at the same
>+<>>+<potential. Including the operator and all equipment he uses. Thats
>+<>>+<why iron's that are ANSI rated have a third wire, the ground. It
>+<>>+<wasn't put there to prevent the user from being "shocked"
>+<>******
>+<
>+<
>+<>
>+<....Snipped, because ANSI standards were written to take into acoount
>+<all the drivel you posted.
>+<
>+<I understand now james, there is ANSI ESD standards
>+<and jame ESD standards.
>+<
>+<And you think that james ESD standards are more correct, more
>+<accurate, and more accepted than ANSI.
>+<
>+<What other electronic standards have you written so that I can go
>+<though and replace all of my quality manuals that reference ANSI
>+<standards and replace them with james standards?
>+<
>+<Have a nice day
>+<
>+<Lancer
>+<
>+<>james

[james]

On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 23:27:21 GMT, Lancer > wrote:

>+<>Actually more like four or five years behind. I will admit that I am
>+<>not fully abreast on the 1999 ANSI standards.
>+<
>+<Think so?
>+<
*****

I know so! Furthermore I do not have to prove nothing to you!

>+<>
>+<>Son I have worked in enough ESD sensitive areas for the better part of
>+<>23 yrs. You and others are very good in quoting standards, but have
>+<>really failed to understand what ESD is, how it generates and what is
>+<>needed to combat ESD. Various areas of the US is far more suspectable
>+<>to ESD than other areas of the US. Cold dry areas are more susceptable
>+<>tham humid and warmer areas.
>+<
>+<No **** sherlock.. guess thats why you get more static shocks in the
>+<winter time?
>+<
>+<>
>+<>My knowledge of ESD is good enough that I do not have to worry if I
>+<>ever decided to work for a large corporation again.
>+<>
>+<>james
>+<
>+<Hey, Wal-mart is hiring... thats a large corporation..
*******

So is Disney also. Maybe you should work there. You have brought
laughter to this thread.

james

[Lancer]

On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 03:43:14 GMT, james > wrote:

>Lancer
>
>This simple drivel has done nothing but dwindle done to a ****ing
>contest and I am put of ****.
>
>I recogneize that there are ANSI standards and I don't disagree with
>any of them. I also have years of education and practical experience
>with electrrostatics and how it forms and how it discharges. I don't
>have to prove anything to a twit like you that can only quote
>standards like it is a bible of some sorts.
>
>You are arguing an issue by throwing standards up and I don't care to
>argue standards. I made a statement and I still stand by it. All you
>have done is through some standards in my face and failed to disprove
>my statement.
>
>Until you can prove me wrong in my original statement, I suggest that
>any further discourse is a wate of my time and the internet bandwidth.
>
>james
>
>

I already did over a week ago, tips on soldring irons should be
grounded. So quit wasting my time...

[Lancer]

On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 03:45:55 GMT, james > wrote:

>On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 23:27:21 GMT, Lancer > wrote:
>
>>+<>Actually more like four or five years behind. I will admit that I am
>>+<>not fully abreast on the 1999 ANSI standards.
>>+<
>>+<Think so?
>>+<
>*****
>
>I know so! Furthermore I do not have to prove nothing to you!
>
>>+<>
>>+<>Son I have worked in enough ESD sensitive areas for the better part of
>>+<>23 yrs. You and others are very good in quoting standards, but have
>>+<>really failed to understand what ESD is, how it generates and what is
>>+<>needed to combat ESD. Various areas of the US is far more suspectable
>>+<>to ESD than other areas of the US. Cold dry areas are more susceptable
>>+<>tham humid and warmer areas.
>>+<
>>+<No **** sherlock.. guess thats why you get more static shocks in the
>>+<winter time?
>>+<
>>+<>
>>+<>My knowledge of ESD is good enough that I do not have to worry if I
>>+<>ever decided to work for a large corporation again.
>>+<>
>>+<>james
>>+<
>>+<Hey, Wal-mart is hiring... thats a large corporation..
>*******
>
>So is Disney also. Maybe you should work there. You have brought
>laughter to this thread.
>
>james
>

That was the intent of my last post..We are at an impass. I have my
beliefs, you have yours.. Ok?

Anyway I couldn't work at Disney.. the commute would be a killer..

[U-Know-Who]

"Steveo" > wrote in message
...
> Lancer > wrote:
>> On 18 Jan 2006 23:42:25 GMT, Steveo > wrote:
>>
>> >Lancer > wrote:
>> >>> So far we haven't had any winter.. looks like another year with 5 or
>> >>> 6
>> >> months of over a 100 degree weather...
>> >>
>> >That's bad man. You guys need rain and cooler temps no doubt. I almost
>> >feel guilty going from cold ass snow to rain over here in the Buckeye.
>> >Wish I could send some of it your way Lance. I seen some of those lawn
>> >fires on the teevee..how close was that **** to you?
>>
>> Some were a few miles away, I set my deck on tractor as low as it
>> would go. And then took the wheels off the deck, cut everything
>> around the house right down to bare dirt..
>> >
>>
> That's pretty ****ed up, even if you speak Spanish and swing a machete'.
> You guys are toasted..:(
>>
>>
>> >Ya' hate to ask for a deluge for fear of flood, but you guys need your
>> >ground soaked just for old times sake by now..
>>
>> We do need the rain, even my old shrubs like photinias are turning
>> brown..
>>
> We are almost flooding in my little area, dang.

Steveo, it's so bad here that the major river (the Brazos) we get our water
from is so salty it leaves white residue on the dishes cleaned in the
dishwasher. They say it will be that way until north Texas gets more rain to
dilute the river water. No telling how much damage it's doing to the hot
water heaters and other devices that this seawater flows through. :-)

[U-Know-Who]

"Lancer" > wrote in message
news:37hls1t6112jqfg8r4lv1rqf2v8l89mf4o@2355323778 ...
> On 18 Jan 2006 23:33:08 GMT, Steveo > wrote:
>
>>Lancer > wrote:
>>>> Hey, Wal-mart is hiring... thats a large corporation..
>>>
>>> Lancer
>>>
>>I wanna be a greeter' when I'm 75. Gimme' the smock. hehe
>
> I love the greeters, nicest people in the store...

Yeah, but the big foreheads kinda creep me out.

[Steveo]

"U-Know-Who" > wrote:
> "Steveo" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Lancer > wrote:
> >> On 18 Jan 2006 23:42:25 GMT, Steveo > wrote:
> >>
> >> >Lancer > wrote:
> >> >>> So far we haven't had any winter.. looks like another year with 5
> >> >>> or 6
> >> >> months of over a 100 degree weather...
> >> >>
> >> >That's bad man. You guys need rain and cooler temps no doubt. I
> >> >almost feel guilty going from cold ass snow to rain over here in the
> >> >Buckeye. Wish I could send some of it your way Lance. I seen some of
> >> >those lawn fires on the teevee..how close was that **** to you?
> >>
> >> Some were a few miles away, I set my deck on tractor as low as it
> >> would go. And then took the wheels off the deck, cut everything
> >> around the house right down to bare dirt..
> >> >
> >>
> > That's pretty ****ed up, even if you speak Spanish and swing a
> > machete'. You guys are toasted..:(
> >>
> >>
> >> >Ya' hate to ask for a deluge for fear of flood, but you guys need
> >> >your ground soaked just for old times sake by now..
> >>
> >> We do need the rain, even my old shrubs like photinias are turning
> >> brown..
> >>
> > We are almost flooding in my little area, dang.
>
> Steveo, it's so bad here that the major river (the Brazos) we get our
> water from is so salty it leaves white residue on the dishes cleaned in
> the dishwasher. They say it will be that way until north Texas gets more
> rain to dilute the river water. No telling how much damage it's doing to
> the hot water heaters and other devices that this seawater flows through.
> :-)
>
Dang, sorry to hear that man. What do you do for drinking water, buy
bottled?

[Steveo]

"U-Know-Who" > wrote:
> "Lancer" > wrote in message
> news:37hls1t6112jqfg8r4lv1rqf2v8l89mf4o@2355323778 ...
> > On 18 Jan 2006 23:33:08 GMT, Steveo > wrote:
> >
> >>Lancer > wrote:
> >>>> Hey, Wal-mart is hiring... thats a large corporation..
> >>>
> >>> Lancer
> >>>
> >>I wanna be a greeter' when I'm 75. Gimme' the smock. hehe
> >
> > I love the greeters, nicest people in the store...
>
> Yeah, but the big foreheads kinda creep me out.
>
D'OH!

[U-Know-Who]

"Steveo" > wrote in message
...
> "U-Know-Who" > wrote:
>> "Steveo" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Lancer > wrote:
>> >> On 18 Jan 2006 23:42:25 GMT, Steveo > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Lancer > wrote:
>> >> >>> So far we haven't had any winter.. looks like another year with 5
>> >> >>> or 6
>> >> >> months of over a 100 degree weather...
>> >> >>
>> >> >That's bad man. You guys need rain and cooler temps no doubt. I
>> >> >almost feel guilty going from cold ass snow to rain over here in the
>> >> >Buckeye. Wish I could send some of it your way Lance. I seen some of
>> >> >those lawn fires on the teevee..how close was that **** to you?
>> >>
>> >> Some were a few miles away, I set my deck on tractor as low as it
>> >> would go. And then took the wheels off the deck, cut everything
>> >> around the house right down to bare dirt..
>> >> >
>> >>
>> > That's pretty ****ed up, even if you speak Spanish and swing a
>> > machete'. You guys are toasted..:(
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >Ya' hate to ask for a deluge for fear of flood, but you guys need
>> >> >your ground soaked just for old times sake by now..
>> >>
>> >> We do need the rain, even my old shrubs like photinias are turning
>> >> brown..
>> >>
>> > We are almost flooding in my little area, dang.
>>
>> Steveo, it's so bad here that the major river (the Brazos) we get our
>> water from is so salty it leaves white residue on the dishes cleaned in
>> the dishwasher. They say it will be that way until north Texas gets more
>> rain to dilute the river water. No telling how much damage it's doing to
>> the hot water heaters and other devices that this seawater flows through.
>> :-)
>>
> Dang, sorry to hear that man. What do you do for drinking water, buy
> bottled?

Oh hell yes! Tap water tastes like pond water right now!

[Lancer]

On 20 Jan 2006 12:10:38 GMT, Steveo > wrote:

>"U-Know-Who" > wrote:
>> "Steveo" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Lancer > wrote:
>> >> On 18 Jan 2006 23:42:25 GMT, Steveo > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Lancer > wrote:
>> >> >>> So far we haven't had any winter.. looks like another year with 5
>> >> >>> or 6
>> >> >> months of over a 100 degree weather...
>> >> >>
>> >> >That's bad man. You guys need rain and cooler temps no doubt. I
>> >> >almost feel guilty going from cold ass snow to rain over here in the
>> >> >Buckeye. Wish I could send some of it your way Lance. I seen some of
>> >> >those lawn fires on the teevee..how close was that **** to you?
>> >>
>> >> Some were a few miles away, I set my deck on tractor as low as it
>> >> would go. And then took the wheels off the deck, cut everything
>> >> around the house right down to bare dirt..
>> >> >
>> >>
>> > That's pretty ****ed up, even if you speak Spanish and swing a
>> > machete'. You guys are toasted..:(
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >Ya' hate to ask for a deluge for fear of flood, but you guys need
>> >> >your ground soaked just for old times sake by now..
>> >>
>> >> We do need the rain, even my old shrubs like photinias are turning
>> >> brown..
>> >>
>> > We are almost flooding in my little area, dang.
>>
>> Steveo, it's so bad here that the major river (the Brazos) we get our
>> water from is so salty it leaves white residue on the dishes cleaned in
>> the dishwasher. They say it will be that way until north Texas gets more
>> rain to dilute the river water. No telling how much damage it's doing to
>> the hot water heaters and other devices that this seawater flows through.
>> :-)
>>
>Dang, sorry to hear that man. What do you do for drinking water, buy
>bottled?

I have well water, and I still won't drink it. All our drinking water
is bottled.

[Steveo]

"U-Know-Who" > wrote:
> "Steveo" > wrote in message
> >> Steveo, it's so bad here that the major river (the Brazos) we get our
> >> water from is so salty it leaves white residue on the dishes cleaned
> >> in the dishwasher. They say it will be that way until north Texas gets
> >> more rain to dilute the river water. No telling how much damage it's
> >> doing to the hot water heaters and other devices that this seawater
> >> flows through.
> >> :-)
> >>
> > Dang, sorry to hear that man. What do you do for drinking water, buy
> > bottled?
>
> Oh hell yes! Tap water tastes like pond water right now!
>
How deep to they drill shallow wells down there? Can you do that where you
are at or no?

[Steveo]

Lancer > wrote:
> On 20 Jan 2006 12:10:38 GMT, Steveo > wrote:
>
> >"U-Know-Who" > wrote:
> >> "Steveo" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > Lancer > wrote:
> >> >> On 18 Jan 2006 23:42:25 GMT, Steveo > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >Lancer > wrote:
> >> >> >>> So far we haven't had any winter.. looks like another year with
> >> >> >>> 5 or 6
> >> >> >> months of over a 100 degree weather...
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >That's bad man. You guys need rain and cooler temps no doubt. I
> >> >> >almost feel guilty going from cold ass snow to rain over here in
> >> >> >the Buckeye. Wish I could send some of it your way Lance. I seen
> >> >> >some of those lawn fires on the teevee..how close was that **** to
> >> >> >you?
> >> >>
> >> >> Some were a few miles away, I set my deck on tractor as low as it
> >> >> would go. And then took the wheels off the deck, cut everything
> >> >> around the house right down to bare dirt..
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> > That's pretty ****ed up, even if you speak Spanish and swing a
> >> > machete'. You guys are toasted..:(
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >Ya' hate to ask for a deluge for fear of flood, but you guys need
> >> >> >your ground soaked just for old times sake by now..
> >> >>
> >> >> We do need the rain, even my old shrubs like photinias are turning
> >> >> brown..
> >> >>
> >> > We are almost flooding in my little area, dang.
> >>
> >> Steveo, it's so bad here that the major river (the Brazos) we get our
> >> water from is so salty it leaves white residue on the dishes cleaned
> >> in the dishwasher. They say it will be that way until north Texas gets
> >> more rain to dilute the river water. No telling how much damage it's
> >> doing to the hot water heaters and other devices that this seawater
> >> flows through.
> >> :-)
> >>
> >Dang, sorry to hear that man. What do you do for drinking water, buy
> >bottled?
>
> I have well water, and I still won't drink it. All our drinking water
> is bottled.
>
So you have a water softener and your dishwasher and laundry machine and
such, run off the well? How deep is the well?

[Lancer]

On 20 Jan 2006 21:50:02 GMT, Steveo > wrote:

>Lancer > wrote:
>> On 20 Jan 2006 12:10:38 GMT, Steveo > wrote:
>>
>> >"U-Know-Who" > wrote:
>> >> "Steveo" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >> > Lancer > wrote:
>> >> >> On 18 Jan 2006 23:42:25 GMT, Steveo > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >Lancer > wrote:
>> >> >> >>> So far we haven't had any winter.. looks like another year with
>> >> >> >>> 5 or 6
>> >> >> >> months of over a 100 degree weather...
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >That's bad man. You guys need rain and cooler temps no doubt. I
>> >> >> >almost feel guilty going from cold ass snow to rain over here in
>> >> >> >the Buckeye. Wish I could send some of it your way Lance. I seen
>> >> >> >some of those lawn fires on the teevee..how close was that **** to
>> >> >> >you?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Some were a few miles away, I set my deck on tractor as low as it
>> >> >> would go. And then took the wheels off the deck, cut everything
>> >> >> around the house right down to bare dirt..
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> > That's pretty ****ed up, even if you speak Spanish and swing a
>> >> > machete'. You guys are toasted..:(
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >Ya' hate to ask for a deluge for fear of flood, but you guys need
>> >> >> >your ground soaked just for old times sake by now..
>> >> >>
>> >> >> We do need the rain, even my old shrubs like photinias are turning
>> >> >> brown..
>> >> >>
>> >> > We are almost flooding in my little area, dang.
>> >>
>> >> Steveo, it's so bad here that the major river (the Brazos) we get our
>> >> water from is so salty it leaves white residue on the dishes cleaned
>> >> in the dishwasher. They say it will be that way until north Texas gets
>> >> more rain to dilute the river water. No telling how much damage it's
>> >> doing to the hot water heaters and other devices that this seawater
>> >> flows through.
>> >> :-)
>> >>
>> >Dang, sorry to hear that man. What do you do for drinking water, buy
>> >bottled?
>>
>> I have well water, and I still won't drink it. All our drinking water
>> is bottled.
>>
>So you have a water softener and your dishwasher and laundry machine and
>such, run off the well? How deep is the well?

No water softner, everything else runs off well water.

450 feet...

[Frank Gilliland]

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 03:27:51 GMT, james > wrote
in >:

>On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 18:46:25 GMT, Lancer > wrote:
>
>>+<Thats total bull****...What happens if your tip has a 1,000 of static
>>+<on it? ESD control is supposed to eliminate the difference in
>>+<potential. ANSI ESD standards state that "everything should be at the
>>+<same potential" That means the operator or person, all test equipment
>>+<and irons. Why don't you do a search on ANSI ESD standards and find
>>+<out for yourself... You are cluesless about ESD...
>****
>
>IF you are properly grounded, once you grab the handle of the
>soldering iron it will within seconds no longer be at 1000 volts
>potential.


Gee, then why bother to make soldering irons with grounded tips?


> Maybe you should also read your Ansi Standards a bit more
>and understand static prevention. Once you are grounded touching any
>other ungrounded object will dissapate the charge built in it. That
>charge will drain through your body to ground within a very short
>period.


It's clear that you missed the physics demonstration with the balloon,
the glass rod and the rabbit fur.


>Besides most ICs can shrug off 1KV with no damage.


Bull****. Take -any- chip you can find, hook a 1kV source (DC -or- AC)
across a ground pin and any non-ground pin, then see if it still
works. It won't. Unless it's designed for 1kV I can guarantee that you
will fry the chip. Try it again at only 100V and you will get the same
results.


> It is neat to see
>what a 15KV jolt does to the poly layers and the protective zeners on
>an IC. If you ever get a chance to do some electron scanning of static
>damage to the die pad area of an IC, do so. It is a really neat to see
>what 15KV can do.


Been there, done that, got the T-shirt, coffee mug, bobble-head doll
and Seahawks jacket. Now if only the Mariners could get their act
together.....









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[Frank Gilliland]

On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:53:53 GMT, james > wrote
in >:

>On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 13:31:56 GMT, Lancer > wrote:
>
>>+< Maybe you should read Ansi standard ANSI/ESD-S20-1999. It states
>>+<Soldering Irons should have a tip to ground resistance of less than 1
>>+<ohm. Companies spends tons of money each year to prevent static
>>+<damge, and that icludes insuring that everything is at the same
>>+<potential. Including the operator and all equipment he uses. Thats
>>+<why iron's that are ANSI rated have a third wire, the ground. It
>>+<wasn't put there to prevent the user from being "shocked"
>******
>
>maybe you should study Coulomb's and Guass' Law and understand how
>Static Charges are developed. A soldering iron sitting on a
>anti-static mat plugged into the wall is not going to develope large
>electrostatic charge.


"Large" is a relative term.


>What does happen is the tip of a soldering iron is in the strong field
>of a time varying magnetic field. This comes from the inductance in
>the heater coil. Putting the tip at ground potential will eliminate
>any potential charge build up from the time varying magnetic field
>from teh heater coil.


What you are ignoring is that the electromagnetic field from AC
current doesn't create -any- potential charge on the tip. The net
charge is zero, and any instantaneous potential charge is the result
of eddy currents which are almost non-existent. More specifically.....

If the tip is the secondary winding of a transformer as you suggest,
the effective number of turns on that winding is 1 turn, while the
primary (the heater coil) has considerably more than 1 turn. So any
voltage developed as a result of electromagnetic induction is going to
be low from the get-go. But that voltage is actually lower because the
tip is really just a shorted loop and is made with a material that has
a very low resistance. Not to mention that the number of primary turns
isn't going to be optimum for power transfer, nor does it have a
ferro-magnetic core. It's a ****-poor transformer at best.

Your theory is further flawed because it assumes an unshielded heater
using wire that is wound into a solenoid -- an assumption that, like
most assumptions, is frequently wrong. Almost all AC soldering irons
these days have shielded heaters, and many heaters are wound to be
non-inductive; i.e, they can't induce a current in squat, let alone
develop any significant (measurable) voltage on the tip. Then you have
the problem that the irons used for chips are only 15-30 watts, and
virtually all of those watts are converted to heat (after all, that's
the intended purpose of the soldering iron, isn't it?).

So here's your theory so far: A tiny fraction of 30 watts (I'm being
generous here) is converted to an electromagnetic field, worms its way
past the heater's shield where it loses most of its energy to eddy
currents, induces a current in a shorted, 1-turn secondary with very
low resistance and develops enough voltage to cause damage to.....
your imagination.


Go back to school.








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[U-Know-Who]

"Frank Gilliland" > wrote in message
...

>
> Been there, done that, got the T-shirt, coffee mug, bobble-head doll
> and Seahawks jacket. Now if only the Mariners could get their act
> together.....
>

Ah, Frank. Now I understand why you tend to get a little ****y in October.
:-)

[Steveo]

Steveo > wrote:
> Lancer > wrote:
> > >Dang, sorry to hear that man. What do you do for drinking water, buy
> > >bottled?
> >
> > I have well water, and I still won't drink it. All our drinking water
> > is bottled.
>
Hey It looked like you guys had a little bit of rain recently, no? I find
myself hoping some of that big state of Texas get's it now (your area),
when I'm watching the national weather map. (i usually only care about n
ohio) :)