[Rob[_8_]]

Roger Hayter wrote:
Rob wrote:

Michael Black wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jun 2016, Jeff wrote:


I forgot to mumble something about which bands require an amateur
license and which do not under Part 15. The lowest frequency band
that requires a ham license is 160 meters (1.8 to 2.0 MHz).
http://www.arrl.org/frequency-allocations

That of course depends on which country you live in.

In the UK 137kHz is an band that requires an amateur licence, with a power
limit of 1W ERP (a significant difference to 1W into the PA stage)!!

427 to 479kHz is also an amateur band in the UK with a 5W erp limit

I think the US is a tad behind, but that may have already changed.

Here in Canada we definitely have one of the new LF bands, but I can't
remember the details.

As long ago as WARC 79 there was talk of making that low frequency license
free band a ham band, so finally that's come to fruition, more or less.

Here in the Netherlands amateur radio licenses have been scrapped some
ten years ago. We have no licenses anymore. The amateur bands are
now all "license free bands with obligatory registration", like
maritime VHF radio. You just apply for a callsign and away you go,
without license.

To apply for a callsign you still need to pass an exam, just like with
maritime VHF. So to the outsider the system may look the same. And
in fact, many amateurs still talk about "the license". But there isn't
any.

Does that mean anyone in the Netherllands can transmit on amateur
frequencies provided they don't a callsign that sounds like an amateur
one?

In practice yes, but I think that is true in any country.

However, to legally transmit on the amateur bands you need to register
a callsign at the authorities. You can register any callsign within
the range PA1-PH9 that has not yet been registered by someone else.
To be able to do such a registration, you must first prove your technical
knowledge by passing an exam at an accredited organization.

Before this change, the authorities organized the exams and those that
passed were issued a license, with associated callsign. The change
was motivated as "deregulation" and "cost saving" (the license had
a yearly fee and the registration was free), but in the meantime a
yearly fee for registration has been introduced, albeit much lower than
the previous fee for a license.

Some hams believe that without a license they have less protection
against interference and intruders. They believed that the license
not only allowed them to transmit on the bands but also got them some
protection against others doing so (including unintentional transmissions
like interference from digital equipment).

Interference is becoming worse and worse, and involvement from authorities
is becoming less, but there is no real indication that it is related
to that change.

[Roger Hayter]

Rob wrote:

Roger Hayter wrote:
Rob wrote:

Michael Black wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jun 2016, Jeff wrote:


I forgot to mumble something about which bands require an amateur
license and which do not under Part 15. The lowest frequency band
that requires a ham license is 160 meters (1.8 to 2.0 MHz).
http://www.arrl.org/frequency-allocations

That of course depends on which country you live in.
In the UK 137kHz is an band that requires an amateur licence, with
a power limit of 1W ERP (a significant difference to 1W into the PA
stage)!! 427 to 479kHz is also an amateur band in the UK with a 5W
erp limit I think the US is a tad behind, but that may have already
changed.

Here in Canada we definitely have one of the new LF bands, but I
can't remember the details.

As long ago as WARC 79 there was talk of making that low frequency
license free band a ham band, so finally that's come to fruition,
more or less.

Here in the Netherlands amateur radio licenses have been scrapped some
ten years ago. We have no licenses anymore. The amateur bands are
now all "license free bands with obligatory registration", like
maritime VHF radio. You just apply for a callsign and away you go,
without license.

To apply for a callsign you still need to pass an exam, just like with
maritime VHF. So to the outsider the system may look the same. And
in fact, many amateurs still talk about "the license". But there isn't
any.

Does that mean anyone in the Netherllands can transmit on amateur
frequencies provided they don't a callsign that sounds like an amateur
one?

In practice yes, but I think that is true in any country.

However, to legally transmit on the amateur bands you need to register
a callsign at the authorities. You can register any callsign within
the range PA1-PH9 that has not yet been registered by someone else.
To be able to do such a registration, you must first prove your technical
knowledge by passing an exam at an accredited organization.

The difference between passing an exam so that you can register a
callsign in order to obtain government permission to transmit and the
licence scheme in most other countries is much too subtle for me. What
is the difference? If transmitting without a callsign remains illegal,
this looks remarkably like a transmitting licence.





Before this change, the authorities organized the exams and those that
passed were issued a license, with associated callsign. The change
was motivated as "deregulation" and "cost saving" (the license had
a yearly fee and the registration was free), but in the meantime a
yearly fee for registration has been introduced, albeit much lower than
the previous fee for a license.

Some hams believe that without a license they have less protection
against interference and intruders. They believed that the license
not only allowed them to transmit on the bands but also got them some
protection against others doing so (including unintentional transmissions
like interference from digital equipment).

Interference is becoming worse and worse, and involvement from authorities
is becoming less, but there is no real indication that it is related
to that change.


--

Roger Hayter

[Rob[_8_]]

Roger Hayter wrote:
The difference between passing an exam so that you can register a
callsign in order to obtain government permission to transmit and the
licence scheme in most other countries is much too subtle for me. What
is the difference? If transmitting without a callsign remains illegal,
this looks remarkably like a transmitting licence.

The difference as felt by some amateurs is that a license (is perceived to)
gives some rights, where a registration is just a system to know who
to contact when there is a problem with a certain amateur's transmissions,
more or less like a telephone number.

[rickman]

On 7/4/2016 5:34 AM, Rob wrote:
Roger Hayter wrote:
Rob wrote:

Michael Black wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jun 2016, Jeff wrote:


I forgot to mumble something about which bands require an amateur
license and which do not under Part 15. The lowest frequency band
that requires a ham license is 160 meters (1.8 to 2.0 MHz).
http://www.arrl.org/frequency-allocations

That of course depends on which country you live in.

In the UK 137kHz is an band that requires an amateur licence, with a power
limit of 1W ERP (a significant difference to 1W into the PA stage)!!

427 to 479kHz is also an amateur band in the UK with a 5W erp limit

I think the US is a tad behind, but that may have already changed.

Here in Canada we definitely have one of the new LF bands, but I can't
remember the details.

As long ago as WARC 79 there was talk of making that low frequency license
free band a ham band, so finally that's come to fruition, more or less.

Here in the Netherlands amateur radio licenses have been scrapped some
ten years ago. We have no licenses anymore. The amateur bands are
now all "license free bands with obligatory registration", like
maritime VHF radio. You just apply for a callsign and away you go,
without license.

To apply for a callsign you still need to pass an exam, just like with
maritime VHF. So to the outsider the system may look the same. And
in fact, many amateurs still talk about "the license". But there isn't
any.

Does that mean anyone in the Netherllands can transmit on amateur
frequencies provided they don't a callsign that sounds like an amateur
one?

In practice yes, but I think that is true in any country.

However, to legally transmit on the amateur bands you need to register
a callsign at the authorities. You can register any callsign within
the range PA1-PH9 that has not yet been registered by someone else.
To be able to do such a registration, you must first prove your technical
knowledge by passing an exam at an accredited organization.

Before this change, the authorities organized the exams and those that
passed were issued a license, with associated callsign. The change
was motivated as "deregulation" and "cost saving" (the license had
a yearly fee and the registration was free), but in the meantime a
yearly fee for registration has been introduced, albeit much lower than
the previous fee for a license.

Maybe I'm a little slow, but I don't see what the difference is between
"license" and "registration". Both require passing a test, getting a
call sign and paying a yearly fee, even if the fee is less and the test
easier to pass and picking your own call sign. What am I missing?

BTW, the range PA1-PH9 is only 80 unique combinations, no (or is it only
72 since it seems to exclude '0')? How can that work? Maybe PA1 means
something other than what I am thinking?

--

Rick C

[Ian Jackson[_2_]]

In message , Roger Hayter
writes



The difference between passing an exam so that you can register a
callsign in order to obtain government permission to transmit and the
licence scheme in most other countries is much too subtle for me. What
is the difference? If transmitting without a callsign remains illegal,
this looks remarkably like a transmitting licence.

It's definitely a severe case of 'double-Dutch'.





--
Ian

[Ralph Mowery]

In article , says...

On 7/4/2016 5:34 AM, Rob wrote:
Roger Hayter wrote:
Rob wrote:

Michael Black wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jun 2016, Jeff wrote:
In practice yes, but I think that is true in any country.

However, to legally transmit on the amateur bands you need to register
a callsign at the authorities. You can register any callsign within
the range PA1-PH9 that has not yet been registered by someone else.
To be able to do such a registration, you must first prove your technical
knowledge by passing an exam at an accredited organization.

Before this change, the authorities organized the exams and those that
passed were issued a license, with associated callsign. The change
was motivated as "deregulation" and "cost saving" (the license had
a yearly fee and the registration was free), but in the meantime a
yearly fee for registration has been introduced, albeit much lower than
the previous fee for a license.

Maybe I'm a little slow, but I don't see what the difference is between
"license" and "registration". Both require passing a test, getting a
call sign and paying a yearly fee, even if the fee is less and the test
easier to pass and picking your own call sign. What am I missing?

BTW, the range PA1-PH9 is only 80 unique combinations, no (or is it only
72 since it seems to exclude '0')? How can that work? Maybe PA1 means
something other than what I am thinking?

In this case I don't really see the difference either.

In the US a license means that you usually have to take a test of some
kind that shows you are somewhat profecient . A registration is a piece
of paper stating you can do something or having a name and address.
such as a drivers license means that you have taken a test to
demonstrate you can safely operate a car, but the car neeeds to be
registered to a person to show ownership. Maybe like a doctor needs to
be licensed to do the medical work,but you register a lawn care
business.

The PA1 to PH9 I am sure means just the prefix an the full call would be
something like pa1aaa or ph9zzz.

Just as inthe states the calls have to start within certain leter and
numbers such as W1, K1, AA1, and then some leters after such as W1AW,
K9ZZ.

[Rob[_8_]]

Jeff wrote:

BTW, the range PA1-PH9 is only 80 unique combinations, no (or is it only
72 since it seems to exclude '0')? How can that work? Maybe PA1 means
something other than what I am thinking?


The PA1-PH9 is the prefix, so the callsigns run from PA1AAA to PH9ZZZ

Yes byt also from PA1A to PH9Z and from PA1AA to PH9ZZ.

PA0 is excluded as a compromise to old guys who have a PA0 call and
don't want newbies to share that privilege. A proposal has been made
to end that situation but it has not been implemented yet.

[Rob[_8_]]

rickman wrote:
Maybe I'm a little slow, but I don't see what the difference is between
"license" and "registration". Both require passing a test, getting a
call sign and paying a yearly fee, even if the fee is less and the test
easier to pass and picking your own call sign. What am I missing?

There is no real difference, but it is felt that way by some.
Note that most of the regulations that originally were attached to the
license have been dropped. Essentially the authorities don't care
what you do, as long as you do it within the bands and with proper
identification. About the only exception is willful interference to
others and unattended/automated transmission. For that, a license is
still required and issued.