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Old April 19th 12, 05:23 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Default The earth


"Rob" napisal w wiadomosci
...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
I believe in each your word. But I simply do not know where in your
equipment the "large conductor" is.


In your statements, you never specify what a "large conductor" is.


Here you a
"". In electronic circuit theory, a "ground" is usually idealized as an
infinite source or sink for charge, which can absorb an unlimited amount of
current without changing its potential. Where a real ground connection has a
significant resistance, the approximation of zero potential is no longer
valid. Stray voltages or earth potential rise effects will occur, which may
create noise in signals or if large enough will produce an electric shock
hazard.
The use of the term ground (or earth) is so common in electrical and
electronics applications that circuits in portable electronic devices such
as cell phones and media players as well as circuits in vehicles such as
ships, aircraft, and spacecraft may be spoken of as having a "ground"
connection without any actual connection to the Earth. This is usually a
large conductor attached to one side of the power supply (such as the
"ground plane" on a printed circuit board) which serves as the common return
path for current from many different components in the circuit." From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_(electricity)


Today, transmitters are often very small and still they work OK without
any earth connection.
How large should a "large conductor" be?


Adequate to electron emission.

Probably it is the coax: "Many conventional coaxial cables use braided
copper wire forming the shield".


The transmitted signal flows only along the inside of the shield of the
coax. The outside is supposed to carry no signal. If it does, there is
a problem with the antenna system.


The outside is the "large conductor".

I also belive in each Tesla's word. He discovered that in his secondary
coil
is the oscillatory electron flow from the earth into the air.
Why is it impossible?
S*


We do not operate our transmitters in the region where electrons start
flowing into the air, because we do not like arcing. Tesla did, but he
was in a different business.


Electron do not start.
Electrons are flowing into the air (and vacuum) at each voltage.
The thin wire is the best "cold cathode".
What are your antennas made of?
S*


  #162   Report Post  
Old April 19th 12, 05:43 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Default The earth

Szczepan Bialek wrote:
Today, transmitters are often very small and still they work OK without
any earth connection.
How large should a "large conductor" be?


Adequate to electron emission.


Transmitters do not emit electrons. They emit electromagnetic waves.
You only see electric current in the feed to the antenna, not externally.
When the antenna is not driven relative to earth, this is not causing
current into the earth, and so no connection to earth is required.

Probably it is the coax: "Many conventional coaxial cables use braided
copper wire forming the shield".


The transmitted signal flows only along the inside of the shield of the
coax. The outside is supposed to carry no signal. If it does, there is
a problem with the antenna system.


The outside is the "large conductor".


But in my cellphone, the coax feeding the antenna is maybe only 1cm
long, or even shorter. How can you call it a "large conductor"?

I also belive in each Tesla's word. He discovered that in his secondary
coil
is the oscillatory electron flow from the earth into the air.
Why is it impossible?
S*


We do not operate our transmitters in the region where electrons start
flowing into the air, because we do not like arcing. Tesla did, but he
was in a different business.


Electron do not start.
Electrons are flowing into the air (and vacuum) at each voltage.
The thin wire is the best "cold cathode".


What current do you measure in a wire connected to your 12v car
battery, and hanging freely into the air?
This is the current caused by your electrons flowing into the air.
  #163   Report Post  
Old April 19th 12, 06:08 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Default The earth


"Rob" napisal w wiadomosci
...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
Today, transmitters are often very small and still they work OK without
any earth connection.
How large should a "large conductor" be?


Adequate to electron emission.


Transmitters do not emit electrons.


"Negative corona take place at each voltage:
"A corona is a process by which a current, perhaps sustained, develops
between two high-potential electrodes in a neutral fluid, usually air, by
ionising that fluid so as to create a plasma around one electrode, and by
using the ions generated in plasma-processes as the charge carriers to the
other electrode.
Corona discharge usually involves two asymmetric electrodes, one highly
curved (such as the tip of a needle, or a narrow wire) and one of low
curvature (such as a plate, or the ground). The high curvature ensures a
high potential gradient around one electrode, for the generation of a
plasma.

Coronas may be positive, or negative. This is determined by the polarity of
the voltage on the highly-curved electrode. If the curved electrode is
positive with respect to the flat electrode we say we have a positive
corona, if negative we say we have a negative corona. The physics of
positive and negative coronas are strikingly different. This asymmetry is a
result of the great difference in mass between electrons and positively
charged ions, and so only the electron having the ability to undergo a
significant degree of ionising inelastic collision at common temperatures
and pressures.

An important reason for considering coronas is the production of ozone
around conductors undergoing corona processes. A negative corona generates
much more ozone than the corresponding positive corona. " From:
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Corona_discharge

"the tip of a needle, or a narrow wire" is a source of the "cathode rays".
They were identyfied in 1895."


They emit electromagnetic waves.
You only see electric current in the feed to the antenna, not externally.


And what about the "displacement current?

When the antenna is not driven relative to earth, this is not causing
current into the earth, and so no connection to earth is required.

Probably it is the coax: "Many conventional coaxial cables use braided
copper wire forming the shield".

The transmitted signal flows only along the inside of the shield of the
coax. The outside is supposed to carry no signal. If it does, there is
a problem with the antenna system.


The outside is the "large conductor".


But in my cellphone, the coax feeding the antenna is maybe only 1cm
long, or even shorter. How can you call it a "large conductor"?


"Large enough."

I also belive in each Tesla's word. He discovered that in his secondary
coil
is the oscillatory electron flow from the earth into the air.
Why is it impossible?
S*

We do not operate our transmitters in the region where electrons start
flowing into the air, because we do not like arcing. Tesla did, but he
was in a different business.


Electron do not start.
Electrons are flowing into the air (and vacuum) at each voltage.
The thin wire is the best "cold cathode".


What current do you measure in a wire connected to your 12v car
battery, and hanging freely into the air?
This is the current caused by your electrons flowing into the air.


""the tip of a needle, or a narrow wire" is a source of the electrons.

For 12 V it should be the nanometers.

Take a rest.
S*



  #164   Report Post  
Old April 19th 12, 06:20 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Default The earth

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

napisa? w wiadomo?ci
...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:


In todays world of circuit boards, there is often no chassis.

Most portable equipment these days is a circuit board in a plastic box.


"This is usually a
large conductor attached to one side of the power supply (such as the
"ground plane" on a printed circuit board) "


Which does not exist on all printed circuit boards.

You are again attempting to make something that sometimes exists into
something that allways exists.

No chassis.

No ground, as in to the Earth, connection.


The "large conductor" works as the earth.


On many modern circuit boards there is no large conductor.

You are a babbling idiot.


  #165   Report Post  
Old April 19th 12, 06:21 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Default The earth

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"Rob" napisa? w wiadomo?ci
...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:


"This is usually a
large conductor attached to one side of the power supply (such as the
"ground plane" on a printed circuit board) "


The "large conductor" works as the earth.
S*


So you agree that a transmitter needs no connection to the earth?


Of course YES. The "large conductor" is enough.



There is no "large conductor" on many modern circuit boards so you are
wrong yet again.




  #166   Report Post  
Old April 19th 12, 06:24 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Default The earth

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

I believe in each your word. But I simply do not know where in your
equipment the "large conductor" is.


Because, you babbling idiot, in many cases the "large conductor" you are
obbsessing over doesn't exist.

Probably it is the coax: "Many conventional coaxial cables use braided
copper wire forming the shield".


Wrong again; most portable radios have no need for any coax,

I also belive in each Tesla's word. He discovered that in his secondary coil
is the oscillatory electron flow from the earth into the air.


This is gibberish.

Why is it impossible?


What is what impossible?

The only thing I see that is impossible is for you to understand anything.


  #167   Report Post  
Old April 19th 12, 06:29 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,898
Default The earth

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"Rob" napisal w wiadomosci
...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
I believe in each your word. But I simply do not know where in your
equipment the "large conductor" is.


In your statements, you never specify what a "large conductor" is.


Here you a
"". In electronic circuit theory, a "ground" is usually idealized as an
infinite source or sink for charge, which can absorb an unlimited amount of
current without changing its potential. Where a real ground connection has a
significant resistance, the approximation of zero potential is no longer
valid. Stray voltages or earth potential rise effects will occur, which may
create noise in signals or if large enough will produce an electric shock
hazard.
The use of the term ground (or earth) is so common in electrical and
electronics applications that circuits in portable electronic devices such
as cell phones and media players as well as circuits in vehicles such as
ships, aircraft, and spacecraft may be spoken of as having a "ground"
connection without any actual connection to the Earth. This is usually a
large conductor attached to one side of the power supply (such as the
"ground plane" on a printed circuit board) which serves as the common return
path for current from many different components in the circuit." From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_(electricity)


In this case what is being discussed is electrical safety, not radio.

Portable radios do not have a "large conductor".

Portable radios do not have a "large conductor".

Today, transmitters are often very small and still they work OK without
any earth connection.
How large should a "large conductor" be?


Adequate to electron emission.


There is no electron emission.

Probably it is the coax: "Many conventional coaxial cables use braided
copper wire forming the shield".


The transmitted signal flows only along the inside of the shield of the
coax. The outside is supposed to carry no signal. If it does, there is
a problem with the antenna system.


The outside is the "large conductor".


Portable radios do not have coax.

I also belive in each Tesla's word. He discovered that in his secondary
coil
is the oscillatory electron flow from the earth into the air.
Why is it impossible?
S*


We do not operate our transmitters in the region where electrons start
flowing into the air, because we do not like arcing. Tesla did, but he
was in a different business.


Electron do not start.
Electrons are flowing into the air (and vacuum) at each voltage.


No, they are not.

The thin wire is the best "cold cathode".


Gibberish.

What are your antennas made of?


Usually aluminum tubing or copper wire for fixed antennas and usually
chrome plated steel for portable antennas.

Antennas do not have a chassis.


  #168   Report Post  
Old April 19th 12, 06:37 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Posts: 1,898
Default The earth

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"Rob" napisal w wiadomosci
...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
Today, transmitters are often very small and still they work OK without
any earth connection.
How large should a "large conductor" be?

Adequate to electron emission.


Transmitters do not emit electrons.


"Negative corona take place at each voltage:


No, it does not.

Corona only occurs with sufficiently high voltages.

The voltages on most antennas is no where high enough to cause corona.

"A corona is a process by which a current, perhaps sustained, develops
between two high-potential electrodes


There you have it: "two high-potential electrodes".

snip

But in my cellphone, the coax feeding the antenna is maybe only 1cm
long, or even shorter. How can you call it a "large conductor"?


"Large enough."


There is no coax in my cellphone, my 2M handheld, or my aviation handheld.

The cases of all of them are plastic and there is no "large conductor" nor
is there any "ground plane".

Yet they all work.

You are a babbling idiot.

snip

""the tip of a needle, or a narrow wire" is a source of the electrons.

For 12 V it should be the nanometers.


For 12V there is no corona as the voltage is too low to initiate a corona
no matter how small a tip you put on the wire.

Take a rest.


Get therapy.



  #169   Report Post  
Old April 19th 12, 06:39 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"W5DXP" napisal w wiadomosci
...
On Apr 19, 3:13 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
I also belive in each Tesla's word. He discovered that in his secondary
coil
is the oscillatory electron flow from the earth into the air.
Why is it impossible?


Because RF EM waves are not made up of electrons. The particles that

are flowing in an RF EM wave are photons. RF waves travel at the speed
of light. Electrons cannot travel at the speed of light.

Electron waves travel. Electrons have different speeds like the all gases.


There are no "Electron waves".

Comparing free electrons to gases is idiotic.

If Tesla
actually believed that an RF wave consists of electron flow, he was

simply ignorant of quantum electrodynamics. That may be the reason why
he failed to transfer large amounts of power through the air in an
efficient manner.

He wrote that for this you must use the higher frequency than was possible
in his time.


Nonsense.

Now all transfer large amounts of power through the air in an efficient
manner.


More nonsense.

Light is an example. But now we have the free electron laser.


Yet more nonsense.

You are a babbling idiot.


  #170   Report Post  
Old April 19th 12, 06:43 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Posts: 165
Default The earth

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

I also belive in each Tesla's word. He discovered that in his secondary
coil
is the oscillatory electron flow from the earth into the air.

This is gibberish.

Hello folks.

Anyone understand what Szczepan means by "oscillatory electron flow",
please? I'm assuming he means a sine wave or a push-pull current.

Regards, Ian.


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