[Ralph Mowery]

I have a home buit version of the Carolina Windom. An off center fed
antenna about 120 feet long with a 4:1 voltage balun and from the feedpoint
it goes to an inline ferrite bead choke 20 feet from the feed point, then 80
feet of rg-8 to the shack.

The balun is suspose to be rated for 3 kw. It does have 2 cores in it.
By tests, I know if I run ssb at over 800 watts the balun will heat up and
change the swr.

I have noticed lately that running just 100 watts ssb on 80 meters the swr
seems to be going up to about 2:1 and the rig cuts the power back as
expected as I talk from a starting point of 1:1. That has hapened for the
last two mornings. I don't recall it doing that before. The antenna has
been up for several years. It is just over 1:1 when normal on the frequency
I most often operate on. Today in the afternoon when 80 meters was dead I
transmitted a carrier for about 5 minuits and let off to ID, then another
carrier for about 5 minuits and the swr did not change.

Any ideas why the swr went up for the last two mornings, but did not seem to
go up this afternoon ?





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[Channel Jumper]

Originally Posted by Ralph Mowery

I have a home built version of the Carolina Windom. An off center fed
antenna about 120 feet long with a 4:1 voltage balun and from the feed-point
it goes to an inline ferrite bead choke 20 feet from the feed point, then 80
feet of rg-8 to the shack.

The balun is suppose to be rated for 3 kw. It does have 2 cores in it.
By tests, I know if I run ssb at over 800 watts the balun will heat up and
change the swr.

I have noticed lately that running just 100 watts ssb on 80 meters the swr
seems to be going up to about 2:1 and the rig cuts the power back as
expected as I talk from a starting point of 1:1. That has happened for the
last two mornings. I don't recall it doing that before. The antenna has
been up for several years. It is just over 1:1 when normal on the frequency
I most often operate on. Today in the afternoon when 80 meters was dead I
transmitted a carrier for about 5 minuets and let off to ID, then another
carrier for about 5 minuets and the swr did not change.

Any ideas why the swr went up for the last two mornings, but did not seem to
go up this afternoon ?

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Do you understand the difference between SWR and VSWR.
SWR is a Citizens Band Radio terminology that describes events on the feed line.
VSWR - Voltage Standing Wave Ratio refers to the voltage present.
If you increase the voltage, what happens to the SWR?
IT GOES UP!

For some reason you don't even know how to use speel check, yet you must think that you are some kind of antenna expert.

The permeability of the core of the balun is determined by it's quality.
It appears to me as if you are cheap and you bought the cheapest balun you could find, trying to save money.

If you do some research on the Carolina Windom antenna, you will read that if it's design frequency is 80 / 75m, that it will not work on 160 or 40m...

Even if it is designed for 80m, 80m is such a large band, you only get about 455 kc's of resonance, and everywhere else it is not resonant.

Had you bought a Guanella-balun and had this problem I would say that the Balun was bad. Because I do not know the origin of the balun you used, I can only make the same assumption.

[Channel Jumper]

I'm not quite sure, but I don't think that it is legal, according to the Part 97 to transmit a carrier without saying anything.

One other thing - as Columbo would say, the SWR meter does not indicate resonance, it only tells you what the feed line tells it. By changing the length of the coax you can make the antenna appear as being resonant or non resonant, even though the antenna may or may not be a perfect 50 ohm load.

Instead of taking down the antenna and looking at the components, you chose to visit this forum and ask us to look into our crystal ball for a solution to your problem.

There is no way for sure for us to know how the PL connectors were installed, the condition of the coax you used for a feed line, the condition of the coax you used to build the antenna and the soldered connectors in between each and every junction.

ONE guess would be that you have a intermittent loose connection and today it chose to work and tomorrow when it rains, snows, wind blows etc, it might not make contact and present a high swr as you put it.

Find someone with an antenna analyzer to diagnose your problem for you.

[John S]

On 12/18/2014 2:12 PM, Channel Jumper wrote:
I'm not quite sure, but I don't think that it is legal, according to the
Part 97 to transmit a carrier without saying anything.

FCC demands that you must issue your call sign within the period
required after beginning your transmission as he did.

One other thing - as Columbo would say, the SWR meter does not indicate
resonance, it only tells you what the feed line tells it. By changing
the length of the coax you can make the antenna appear as being resonant
or non resonant, even though the antenna may or may not be a perfect 50
ohm load.

Your first sentence could be construed as accurate, depending on
accepted terminology. Your second sentence is inaccurate and is in
conflict with your first sentence.

Instead of taking down the antenna and looking at the components, you
chose to visit this forum and ask us to look into our crystal ball for a
solution to your problem.

I'm thinking you do not have such a crystal ball or you would have used
it show your superiority over everyone else here.

There is no way for sure for us to know how the PL connectors were
installed, the condition of the coax you used for a feed line, the
condition of the coax you used to build the antenna and the soldered
connectors in between each and every junction.

Who is "us"? You have someone sitting beside you? So, you want his
problem handed to you(and the person next to you) on a platter? You
don't really know how to help him, in other words.

ONE guess would be that you have a intermittent loose connection and
today it chose to work and tomorrow when it rains, snows, wind blows
etc, it might not make contact and present a high swr as you put it.

Perhaps, as you put it. Can you suggest some tests that might be helpful
for him? How would you suggest making tests or measurements that you
think could be problems?


Find someone with an antenna analyzer to diagnose your problem for you.


Oh yeah! And learn nothing in the process. You would be standing around
for weeks with an analyzer in your hands waiting for the first sign of
intermittent connections. Then what? Your measurements have already told
you have a problem. Forget that Channel Jumper non-ham idiot. You are
much more capable than him.

Try some more things and report back. Shake your feeder (you know what I
mean) and have someone watch your meter. Look at each end of both the
feeder and antenna to make sure you have no corrupted insulators or
limbs touching. With a digital ohmmeter, you can measure resistance
across the insulators (power off, of course). The idea is: can I find a
way to measure something using what tools I have to give me a lead to
the problem? Keep looking.

The group would love to help, I'm sure. There are lots of gurus here.

Good Luck!

[Dave Platt[_2_]]

In article ,
Channel Jumper wrote:

I'm not quite sure, but I don't think that it is legal, according to the
Part 97 to transmit a carrier without saying anything.

That is an over-generalization.

Part 97 does allow you to make brief one-way transmissions, for the
purpose of making adjustments to your station. Evaluating SWR or
adjusting a tuner would fall into this category.

The test transmission itself can be pretty much anything, as long as
it does not violate any other terms of Part 97 (i.e. no foul language,
no music, no interference with other stations on the frequency, and
transmitted in a frequency allowed by your license privileges).

A "blank" CW carrier need not violate any of these. And, in fact,
that's just what many modern radios transmit whenever you hit the "tune"
button to adjust the auto-tuner.

You're still required to identify yourself somehow (verbally or CW)
every ten minutes and at the end of the transmission. So, you do have
to "say something", but you don't have to do it as part of the test
carrier transmission itself... just do it when you're done, or after
ten minutes (whichever comes sooner).

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, December 17, 2014 6:34:22 PM UTC-6, Ralph Mowery wrote:
I have a home buit version of the Carolina Windom. An off center fed
antenna about 120 feet long with a 4:1 voltage balun and from the feedpoint
it goes to an inline ferrite bead choke 20 feet from the feed point, then 80
feet of rg-8 to the shack.

The balun is suspose to be rated for 3 kw. It does have 2 cores in it.
By tests, I know if I run ssb at over 800 watts the balun will heat up and
change the swr.

I have noticed lately that running just 100 watts ssb on 80 meters the swr
seems to be going up to about 2:1 and the rig cuts the power back as
expected as I talk from a starting point of 1:1. That has hapened for the
last two mornings. I don't recall it doing that before. The antenna has
been up for several years. It is just over 1:1 when normal on the frequency
I most often operate on. Today in the afternoon when 80 meters was dead I
transmitted a carrier for about 5 minuits and let off to ID, then another
carrier for about 5 minuits and the swr did not change.

Any ideas why the swr went up for the last two mornings, but did not seem to
go up this afternoon ?


Hard to say really, but sounds sort of moisture related..
Maybe moisture freezing, and then melting, or wet moisture that
later dries out. Just a guess though..
If that balun warms up, it's adding a substantial amount of loss.
Not really related to your problem, but I hate to see perfectly useful
RF turn to heat. :|
Also kind of verifies my theory of the cause of the loss I saw when
using one of those antennas at a field day several years ago.
I had compared it to a regular coax fed dipole, and it was way
down from the dipole.
I always blamed the voltage balun it used, and your experience sort of
verifies that assumption.

[Ralph Mowery]

wrote in message
...
Hard to say really, but sounds sort of moisture related..
Maybe moisture freezing, and then melting, or wet moisture that
later dries out. Just a guess though..
If that balun warms up, it's adding a substantial amount of loss.
Not really related to your problem, but I hate to see perfectly useful
RF turn to heat. :|
Also kind of verifies my theory of the cause of the loss I saw when
using one of those antennas at a field day several years ago.
I had compared it to a regular coax fed dipole, and it was way
down from the dipole.
I always blamed the voltage balun it used, and your experience sort of
verifies that assumption.


While some of the RF is converted to heat, I also have a 80 meter dipole at
the same height and at right angles to the OCF antenna. Switching back and
forth between them, the OCF is usually beter. In a few cases the plane 80
mete dipole without a blun will work beter on 80 meters.

Just a few months ago I hung an 18 and 24 MHz dipole about 6 inches bleow
the 80 meter dipole and fed off the same coax. Still the OCF is usually
beter.

The ends of both antennas are about 50 to 60 feet off the ground and not
suported in the middle or at the feed point.



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[Jeff Liebermann[_2_]]

On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 20:12:53 +0000, Channel Jumper
wrote:

I'm not quite sure, but I don't think that it is legal, according to the
Part 97 to transmit a carrier without saying anything.

Wrong.

Part 97.305(a)(b)
(a) Except as specified elsewhere in this part, an amateur
station may transmit a CW emission on any frequency authorized
to the control operator.

(b) A station may transmit a test emission on any frequency
authorized to the control operator for brief periods for
experimental purposes,...

http://www.hallikainen.org/FCC/FccRules/2013/97/305/index.php

Actually, you're half right. Much of what I hear on the air is
seriously lacking in content and only a little better than not saying
anything.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, December 18, 2014 5:05:35 PM UTC-6, Ralph Mowery wrote:

While some of the RF is converted to heat, I also have a 80 meter dipole at
the same height and at right angles to the OCF antenna. Switching back and
forth between them, the OCF is usually beter. In a few cases the plane 80
mete dipole without a blun will work beter on 80 meters.

Just a few months ago I hung an 18 and 24 MHz dipole about 6 inches bleow
the 80 meter dipole and fed off the same coax. Still the OCF is usually
beter.

The ends of both antennas are about 50 to 60 feet off the ground and not
suported in the middle or at the feed point.

I was thinking in terms of 80m. I suppose it's possible the windom
could be better on some of the other bands. IE: a 80 dipole is not
going to be too good on 40m unless you use a low loss method of feeding
the high Z antenna.

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, December 18, 2014 2:13:00 PM UTC-6, Channel Jumper wrote:

One other thing - as Columbo would say, the SWR meter does not indicate
resonance, it only tells you what the feed line tells it. By changing
the length of the coax you can make the antenna appear as being resonant
or non resonant, even though the antenna may or may not be a perfect 50
ohm load.

If changing the length of the coax makes large changes in the SWR,
that just shows you have poor decoupling from the antenna to the
feed line. Need a balun or choke, or a better balun or choke than
what is being used.
What you state is largely a CB radio wives tale, due to most of them
not properly decoupling the antenna from the line.

With proper decoupling, the length of the coax will have little
bearing on the SWR seen at the rig. It will be the same as what is
seen at the antenna input, minus any decrease in SWR due to coax
loss. IE: very high coax loss can make anything look good at the rig.