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Old April 14th 07, 05:33 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.equipment
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Default Anyone still use packet radio?

Looks like he can no read , out here in the Boondocks your rant if that ,
looks quite factual , not being mean to you personally fella but maybe your
not "PATRIOT" enough Dick , with the utmost sarcasm too :-) ..

"Dick" wrote in message
...
I have no idea what you are referring to in my message. Please list a
couple of the specific points in my message, and what you disagree
with. Nothing I mentioned are theories, nor is it ranting. I can't
believe you even read my message. It would help if you would leave at
least part of the message you are responding to.

Dick - W6CCD

On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 10:12:47 -1000, Joseph Fenn
wrote:

Dick,
I do not follow your ranting and theorizing of Ham radio nor
useage of Packet, PSK, and other forms of msg handling.
As we all know by now, the WWW is not infalible, nor the
CellPhone industry nor many of your other theories.
After 70 years with AARS/MARS etc I for one am proud to be
a member of Ham radio and all its requirements. And yes
Hams have access to the Space Ship as I understand it.
So accept my dissent to your comments!!!!!
Joe/KH6JF


************************************************ **************************
* Ham since 1937 HiSchool Sophomore ex W9ZUU, KP4EX, W4FAG, KH6ARG KH6JF *
* WW2 Vet since Sep 1940 to just After VJ day. US Signal Corps AACS *
************************************************ **************************





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Old April 14th 07, 02:25 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.equipment
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Default Anyone still use packet radio?

OK Guys. Let me lay it out for you so it is perfectly clear.

"Blue Box Thief" said that ham radio is ending because the internet
and cell phones have reduced it to an old guy's hobby, and it
contributes nothing of value to the advancement of knowledge or
humanity. He also said there is virtually no interest in ham radio by
the current generation of kids and young adults.

I responded with the following points:

1. The internet cannot be relied upon in an emergency.

2. Cellular telephones cannot be relied upon in an emergency.

3. The telephone system itself cannot be relied upon in an emergency.

4. Packet radio is losing favor for passing messages, but WinLink 2000
is taking its place.

5. APRS is not a waste of spectrum, and is very important for use in
tracking emergency vehicles.

6. Ham radio is still very important to the government as evidenced by
the millions of dollars being pumped into it by Homeland Security.

7. Young people ARE getting into ham radio as evidenced by the number
in our area currently testing for a license.

8. Interest in ham radio is dependent upon how much work the local
hams are willing to expend on young people.

9. Ham radio will continue to be important for emergency
communications until satellite communications are fully developed.

Please point out to me which of the above are theories or involve
ranting.

Dick - W6CCD

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Old April 14th 07, 03:23 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.equipment
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Default Anyone still use packet radio?

Dick wrote:


Please point out to me which of the above are theories or involve
ranting.

Dick - W6CCD


Right on!!!

Bob N9LVU
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Old April 16th 07, 12:47 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.equipment
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Default Anyone still use packet radio?

On 2007-04-12, Nobody wrote:

thanks,
bernard


Actually, no that is not a bad thing for the masses. It is the end of
ham radio for anything other than talking about your guns, cars, or
aliments to other old farts. I am one of those old farts who has no
illusions about the worth of ham radio in this world of modern
reliable instant inexpensive world wide communications.


I remember reading about a little project in the 70s in hawaii called
aloha-net (maybe?)..

this did not *specifically invent* the internet, but I don't think
you can say that ham radio has no worth in this world of reliable instat
inexpensive comms.

granted, the internet is cheap and relatively instant..but as someone who works
in mobile telephony, i can tell you when the **** hits the fan, i would have
no problem to fall back onto ham radio.

you show me a UMTS phone that works 500Km when every radio mast has been ripped t
shreds by some storm.

Packet Radio has been reduce to APRS and a few DX clusters. I got rid
of my packet station in favor of Internet based DX clusters 4 years
ago. APRS is a completely useless waste of radio spectrum. The only
real use of Packet is as a means of accessing and gathering remote
data. However, there is little ham interest in this type of activity
due largely to the fact that most sites that have power from the grid
also have Telco access which means Internet. Most repeaters are idle
now, even during drive time. SoCal used to be jam packed with repeats
on 2 meters and 70 cm during drive time. There are more cell phones
in use at the TRW and other local swap meets than hand helds. During
the evening there is more activity on 2 meter simplex than there is on
the 2 meter repeaters.

The Internet and Cell phones have reduced ham radio to an old guy's
hobby.


or a hobby of someone who is interested in communications.

to be honest, i dont think getting every kid interested in ham radio
would be a good thing.
not a "snob" mentality, but the same reason not every skid should learn to play
the guitar


The Internet provides reliable world wide communications for a
low monthly price eliminating the need for ham radio's traffic
handling system. Even the slowest dial-up Internet access leaves
packet radio in the dust. Chat rooms make random world wide
conversations with people possible by anyone without requiring a test
to prove that you can memorize a bunch of answers to questions without
having to understand anything. Portable Cell sites have eliminated
the need for ham radio emergency communications.i


I dont agree with you on that.
If the cell sites have connectivity to the switching centre by E1/T1, uwave links
its quite possible that the infrastructure is dead after a storm/emergency situation.


Internet connections
in concert with portable cell sites have eliminated the "Health and
Welfare" traffic as well. Both portable cell and associated Internet
access allow anyone to be trained to handle emergency traffic as well
as health and welfare - no license needed. Cell phones have
eliminated any of the freeway accident reporting needs formerly
provided by hams through repeaters at "drive time".


And hea, thats fine. Radio hams is not the answer to everything.
Just the same as Internet is not the answer to everything.

In summary, Ham Radio has joined the model trains, boats, planes and
other old guys hobbies as something to pass time away but which
contributes nothing of value to the advancement of knowledge or
humanity.


No, I can't agree with you here.

Soccer (insert sport here)doesn't contribute value to humanity, does that mean soccer is
a useless hobby?!

There is virtually no interest in ham radio by the current generation
of kids and young adults -- hand held radios and repeaters are archaic
to them (and rightly so) since they walk around with world wide
reliable telco and internet access for pennies a day without having to
prove that they are worthy of some arcane title.


As someone who uses the Internet every single day on my life, I agree with the last bit.

But, also, on the Internet everyone can be an expert (or a dog, depending..).

The Internet has its places, but so does amateur radio.

ta,
bernard


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Old April 16th 07, 12:54 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.equipment
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Default Anyone still use packet radio?

On 2007-04-13, Dick wrote:

BIG SNIP

Dick,

I agree with all you have said above!


Some day, when ALL communications are via satellite, and nothing on
the ground can be destroyed by flood, fire, earthquake, tornados,
terrorist attacks, etc., then amateur radio will lose its value to the
country for backup emergency communications. Until then, people will
continue to depend upon amateur radio even when they don't realize it.


When/If all comms is via satellite, then that will give a target/one place
of insecurity in comms.

Amateur radio works, in emergency situations, because if its unorganised
(in the best sense of tha word!) nature.

Much the same way as the Internet was/is intended to operate.


The only way to knock out amateur radio would be some EMF pollution (that
and kill all the old farts).

bernard




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Old April 16th 07, 01:05 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.equipment
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Default Anyone still use packet radio?

On 2007-04-14, Dick wrote:
OK Guys. Let me lay it out for you so it is perfectly clear.


I think its me that has to lay it out for eberyone.

*I* said I had argued that Internet was actually a good thing
for Amateur radio:

"
I remember going to a radio meeting(probably the only meeting i went to!)
, dunno, about 7-8 years ago.
I argued that Internet was good for ham radio, while alot of people (waay more
experienced than I) argued the opposite. It'll kill DX, Packet etc.


I argued the opposite. It'll give people opportunity to find information, access
to other sides of the world, as if they were in their backgarden.

A little bit of both seems to have happened. Is that a bad thing?

"

"Nobody" then argued the counter, that in fact,
amateur radio was dead, and nothing more than an old guys hobby:

"
Actually, no that is not a bad thing for the masses. It is the end of
ham radio for anything other than talking about your guns, cars, or
aliments to other old farts. I am one of those old farts who has no
illusions about the worth of ham radio in this world of modern
reliable instant inexpensive world wide communications.
"

I then agreed completely with what Dick had said about the value of
amateur radio.

I did however disagree with him about the demise of amateur radio
when all communications go to satellite.

Now, to carry on with the conversation..
"Blue Box Thief" said that ham radio is ending because the internet
and cell phones have reduced it to an old guy's hobby, and it
contributes nothing of value to the advancement of knowledge or
humanity. He also said there is virtually no interest in ham radio by
the current generation of kids and young adults.



I hope this is now fixed.

I responded with the following points:

1. The internet cannot be relied upon in an emergency.


There will be times when the internet stops working, partially somewhere in the world.

2. Cellular telephones cannot be relied upon in an emergency.


Again, pretty much same as point 1.

3. The telephone system itself cannot be relied upon in an emergency.


This I might not agree with, but essentally correct.

4. Packet radio is losing favor for passing messages, but WinLink 2000
is taking its place.


I don't knmow much about winlink 2000 so i can't say.

5. APRS is not a waste of spectrum, and is very important for use in
tracking emergency vehicles.


Yes I agree. If this is a waste of spectrum, so is wifi, gps, etc..

6. Ham radio is still very important to the government as evidenced by
the millions of dollars being pumped into it by Homeland Security.


This may be the case in America. No idea.

7. Young people ARE getting into ham radio as evidenced by the number
in our area currently testing for a license.

8. Interest in ham radio is dependent upon how much work the local
hams are willing to expend on young people.

9. Ham radio will continue to be important for emergency
communications until satellite communications are fully developed.


Here I might disagree with you, as mentioned in my previous post.


Please point out to me which of the above are theories or involve
ranting.


I think :

a) yo got mixed up with me and the nobody guy. The "anti" ham radio comments
were his not mine.

b) the other got you and the nobody guy mixed up..funny that

Of course, it could all be a bad case of trolling

Dick - W6CCD


bernard
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Old April 16th 07, 04:24 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.equipment
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Default Anyone still use packet radio?

On 16 Apr 2007 12:05:19 GMT, blue box thief "blue box
wrote:

On 2007-04-14, Dick wrote:
OK Guys. Let me lay it out for you so it is perfectly clear.


I think its me that has to lay it out for everyone.

*I* said I had argued that Internet was actually a good thing
for Amateur radio:


Yes, I mis-quoted you. It was "Nobody" that I was quoting. Sorry
about that.

My point about satellite communications was not that it would do away
with ham radio per se, but that it would make ham radio much less
important for emergency communications (ARES/RACES.) When technology
advances to the point where all telephones communicate directly with
satellites, with no earthbound connection, then the only thing that
could knock them out would be to take out the satellites. Much less
likely than an earthquake, fire or flood here on earth. I know there
are services available today like Iridium and Globalstar, but it won't
be practical for everyone until the price gets down to current cell
phone costs.

Dick - W6CCD

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Old April 16th 07, 05:12 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.equipment
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Default Anyone still use packet radio?

On 2007-04-16, Dick wrote:
*I* said I had argued that Internet was actually a good thing
for Amateur radio:


Yes, I mis-quoted you. It was "Nobody" that I was quoting. Sorry
about that.


Thats ok. Don't worry about it.

My point about satellite communications was not that it would do away
with ham radio per se, but that it would make ham radio much less
important for emergency communications (ARES/RACES.) When technology
advances to the point where all telephones communicate directly with
satellites, with no earthbound connection, then the only thing that
could knock them out would be to take out the satellites. Much less
likely than an earthquake, fire or flood here on earth. I know there
are services available today like Iridium and Globalstar, but it won't
be practical for everyone until the price gets down to current cell
phone costs.


and until the available bitrates increases abit
last time i saw satellite phone it was something around 64Kbps.
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Old April 17th 07, 02:26 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.equipment
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blue box thief "blue box wrote:

On 2007-04-13, Dick wrote:

BIG SNIP

Dick,

I agree with all you have said above!


Some day, when ALL communications are via satellite, and nothing on
the ground can be destroyed by flood, fire, earthquake, tornados,
terrorist attacks, etc., then amateur radio will lose its value to the
country for backup emergency communications. Until then, people will
continue to depend upon amateur radio even when they don't realize it.


When/If all comms is via satellite, then that will give a target/one place
of insecurity in comms.


Exactly. Didn't China just show that it can shoot down satellites?
I'm sure the US and Russia can, and possibly the EU as well.

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Old April 17th 07, 03:01 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.equipment
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Default Anyone still use packet radio?

On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 18:26:45 -0700, Jack Hamilton wrote:

blue box thief "blue box wrote:

On 2007-04-13, Dick wrote:

BIG SNIP

Dick,

I agree with all you have said above!


Some day, when ALL communications are via satellite, and nothing on
the ground can be destroyed by flood, fire, earthquake, tornados,
terrorist attacks, etc., then amateur radio will lose its value to the
country for backup emergency communications. Until then, people will
continue to depend upon amateur radio even when they don't realize it.


When/If all comms is via satellite, then that will give a target/one place
of insecurity in comms.


Exactly. Didn't China just show that it can shoot down satellites?
I'm sure the US and Russia can, and possibly the EU as well.


Yes, but it that happens we won't have to worry about communications.
We need to find a deep cave.

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