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Old April 27th 15, 09:28 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Posts: 6
Default External aerial for 4G+ (LTE Advanced) [Relish.net] Router

Firstly sorry if this is OT guys but you do seem the best people to ask.

The part of London I live in has rubbish ISP speeds (4 mbit) and I have
been offered an old Relish.net router which is a Gemtek WLTFSR-115GN, I
know some of these have external aerial sockets (US ones I think) but
the version I will get does not have any external sockets, so it's a
case of go inside and try to figure out some way of connecting an
external aerial, now the reason I need an external one is I am right on
the edge of their coverage and only get a single bar using just the
router, I do have some images of the inside of the router so I will post
the links for them later, but I was just wondering if anyone has heard
of this being done in the UK?

TIA
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Old April 27th 15, 09:58 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Posts: 1,067
Default External aerial for 4G+ (LTE Advanced) [Relish.net] Router

On 4/27/2015 4:28 PM, Jim wrote:
Firstly sorry if this is OT guys but you do seem the best people to ask.

The part of London I live in has rubbish ISP speeds (4 mbit) and I have
been offered an old Relish.net router which is a Gemtek WLTFSR-115GN, I
know some of these have external aerial sockets (US ones I think) but
the version I will get does not have any external sockets, so it's a
case of go inside and try to figure out some way of connecting an
external aerial, now the reason I need an external one is I am right on
the edge of their coverage and only get a single bar using just the
router, I do have some images of the inside of the router so I will post
the links for them later, but I was just wondering if anyone has heard
of this being done in the UK?

TIA


The first thing you need to do is check the law. In the United States,
it would be illegal to add an external antenna to most (if not all)
routers. I don't know if the same situation exists in the U.K.

Would it be possible for you to place it somewhere high, like in an attic?

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================
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Old April 27th 15, 10:52 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Apr 2015
Posts: 6
Default External aerial for 4G+ (LTE Advanced) [Relish.net] Router

On 27/04/2015 21:58, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 4/27/2015 4:28 PM, Jim wrote:
Firstly sorry if this is OT guys but you do seem the best people to ask.

The part of London I live in has rubbish ISP speeds (4 mbit) and I have
been offered an old Relish.net router which is a Gemtek WLTFSR-115GN, I
know some of these have external aerial sockets (US ones I think) but
the version I will get does not have any external sockets, so it's a
case of go inside and try to figure out some way of connecting an
external aerial, now the reason I need an external one is I am right on
the edge of their coverage and only get a single bar using just the
router, I do have some images of the inside of the router so I will post
the links for them later, but I was just wondering if anyone has heard
of this being done in the UK?

TIA

The first thing you need to do is check the law. In the United States,
it would be illegal to add an external antenna to most (if not all)
routers. I don't know if the same situation exists in the U.K.

Would it be possible for you to place it somewhere high, like in an attic?

Not to sure on legal side in the UK, I presume it's ok in the US as i
have seen this video on youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yXbWV1vsco
and that has external sockets built in, so i presume law is fine with it
in the US.

I am on the top floor of a 2 story block and have access to a T&K
bracket and about a 15-20 foot pole, so height should not be an issue,
but before i went to the hassle of getting someone in to mount it (i
can't due to disability) I want to make sure it can be done and buy the
right equipment.

Jim
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Old April 28th 15, 12:50 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Apr 2015
Posts: 6
Default External aerial for 4G+ (LTE Advanced) [Relish.net] Router

On 27/04/2015 21:28, Jim wrote:

I do have some images of the inside of the router so I will post the
links for them later, but I was just wondering if anyone has heard of
this being done in the UK?

TIA


OK here is the links to the images, sorry they are not great but not
taken with the best phone

http://s26.postimg.org/tjmr1m9a1/IMG...018_172910.jpg
http://s26.postimg.org/4cbv1d661/IMG...018_172958.jpg
http://s26.postimg.org/4rn4uds3d/IMG...018_173125.jpg
http://s26.postimg.org/t9f8i9unt/IMG...018_182850.jpg
http://s26.postimg.org/ca6a30jg9/IMG...018_183000.jpg
http://s26.postimg.org/mya11utfd/IMG...018_183005.jpg
http://s26.postimg.org/ypxwcno1l/IMG...018_183253.jpg
http://s26.postimg.org/z1fcpf4hl/IMG...018_183259.jpg
http://s26.postimg.org/3kdsfwrcp/IMG...018_183308.jpg
http://s26.postimg.org/n3idp9q49/IMG...018_183358.jpg
http://s26.postimg.org/qcwsvqe7t/IMG...018_183405.jpg
http://s26.postimg.org/qoe98hunt/IMG...018_183418.jpg
http://s26.postimg.org/w2d1g1ke1/IMG...018_183421.jpg
http://s26.postimg.org/7zw7l63qx/IMG...018_183641.jpg
http://s26.postimg.org/qti0i61yx/IMG...018_183647.jpg
http://s26.postimg.org/f5nynmcu1/IMG...018_183657.jpg
http://s26.postimg.org/6oogcp855/IMG...018_183716.jpg
http://s26.postimg.org/ju3yit20p/IMG...018_213911.jpg
http://s26.postimg.org/wo6lpw4u1/IMG...018_213915.jpg
http://s26.postimg.org/p6xeaofax/IMG...018_213921.jpg
http://s26.postimg.org/owpvrc0op/IMG...018_213928.jpg
http://s26.postimg.org/y5s21g9kp/IMG...018_214501.jpg
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Old April 28th 15, 02:04 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,067
Default External aerial for 4G+ (LTE Advanced) [Relish.net] Router

On 4/27/2015 5:52 PM, Jim wrote:
On 27/04/2015 21:58, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 4/27/2015 4:28 PM, Jim wrote:
Firstly sorry if this is OT guys but you do seem the best people to ask.

The part of London I live in has rubbish ISP speeds (4 mbit) and I have
been offered an old Relish.net router which is a Gemtek WLTFSR-115GN, I
know some of these have external aerial sockets (US ones I think) but
the version I will get does not have any external sockets, so it's a
case of go inside and try to figure out some way of connecting an
external aerial, now the reason I need an external one is I am right on
the edge of their coverage and only get a single bar using just the
router, I do have some images of the inside of the router so I will post
the links for them later, but I was just wondering if anyone has heard
of this being done in the UK?

TIA

The first thing you need to do is check the law. In the United States,
it would be illegal to add an external antenna to most (if not all)
routers. I don't know if the same situation exists in the U.K.

Would it be possible for you to place it somewhere high, like in an
attic?

Not to sure on legal side in the UK, I presume it's ok in the US as i
have seen this video on youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yXbWV1vsco
and that has external sockets built in, so i presume law is fine with it
in the US.


Don't be on it. Just because you see it on the Internet does not mean
it's legal. There is a lot of illegal Chinese crap being sold to
unsuspecting Americans. In fact, just a few months ago, a Chinese
company ways fined several million dollars for selling illegal equipment
in the U.S.

Also, just because one piece of equipment is legal for an external
antenna does NOT mean another piece also is legal. And even if it is
legal in the U.S., the U.K. has an entirely different set of laws. What
is legal in one country may or may not be in the other.

I am on the top floor of a 2 story block and have access to a T&K
bracket and about a 15-20 foot pole, so height should not be an issue,
but before i went to the hassle of getting someone in to mount it (i
can't due to disability) I want to make sure it can be done and buy the
right equipment.

Jim


No, I am saying mount the modem in the attic, not an external antenna.

Before you get a big fine from OFCOM I would recommend you check the
legality. I suspect you will find what you want to do is NOT legal -
which is why your modem does not have an external antenna jack.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================


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Old April 28th 15, 11:29 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Aug 2013
Posts: 393
Default External aerial for 4G+ (LTE Advanced) [Relish.net] Router

On 27/04/15 21:28, Jim wrote:
Firstly sorry if this is OT guys but you do seem the best people to ask.

The part of London I live in has rubbish ISP speeds (4 mbit) and I have
been offered an old Relish.net router which is a Gemtek WLTFSR-115GN, I
know some of these have external aerial sockets (US ones I think) but
the version I will get does not have any external sockets, so it's a
case of go inside and try to figure out some way of connecting an
external aerial, now the reason I need an external one is I am right on
the edge of their coverage and only get a single bar using just the
router, I do have some images of the inside of the router so I will post
the links for them later, but I was just wondering if anyone has heard
of this being done in the UK?

TIA


I use one on my mobilehome (RV for our US readers) with my Huawi MiFi
4G/3G. The whip is mounted on a Panorama base (from a PMR whip) on the
luggage rack (specifically fitted to mount antennas) and the cable run
into the habitation area. A short adaptor lead goes from the BNC to the
proper connector for the MiFi (I can't recall the type, TS9?). I
generally gain several 'bars' on the 'S meter' on the setup page.

Previously I used one of the tiny antennas of Ebay sitting on the roof
with a 3G Mifi, it gave a useful increase in performance (unusable
outside the motorhome without the antenna to reliable inside with it). I
replaced it as I wanted a fixed set up which would work when driving
(not for the driver!).
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Old April 29th 15, 01:29 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Jun 2006
Posts: 487
Default External aerial for 4G+ (LTE Advanced) [Relish.net] Router

Jim wrote:
Firstly sorry if this is OT guys but you do seem the best people to ask.

The part of London I live in has rubbish ISP speeds (4 mbit) and I have
been offered an old Relish.net router which is a Gemtek WLTFSR-115GN, I
know some of these have external aerial sockets (US ones I think) but
the version I will get does not have any external sockets, so it's a
case of go inside and try to figure out some way of connecting an
external aerial, now the reason I need an external one is I am right on
the edge of their coverage and only get a single bar using just the
router, I do have some images of the inside of the router so I will post
the links for them later, but I was just wondering if anyone has heard
of this being done in the UK?


I did the same for a friend using a Huawei E169 USB dongle with an external
antenna socket. She lived in a basement and had no signal on her cell
phone.

The best results we go was with "15dBi GSM/3G/UMTS panel antenna with
extension cable 5m + RP-SMA female to CRC9" from eBay, for about $50
including postage.

You can buy LTE (4G) dongles from eBay with external antenna sockets.

Just make sure they support the bands used in London, the antenna
matches the bands, and the connector on the cable matches the dongle.

This does require a computer to be used as a router, or a MiFi which
has a USB socket for you to provide your own dongle.

The other (probably cheaper) option is to find a cheap smartphone with an
antenna socket and use wifi tethering. Or if it is just a problem with your
home and holding the phone up to the window works, get a roll of duct tape.
:-)

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379

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Old April 29th 15, 11:34 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,336
Default External aerial for 4G+ (LTE Advanced) [Relish.net] Router

On Mon, 27 Apr 2015 21:28:36 +0100, Jim
wrote:

Firstly sorry if this is OT guys but you do seem the best people to ask.


I'm bored. OT will have to suffice.

The part of London I live in has rubbish ISP speeds (4 mbit) and I have
been offered an old Relish.net router which is a Gemtek WLTFSR-115GN, I
know some of these have external aerial sockets (US ones I think) but
the version I will get does not have any external sockets, so it's a
case of go inside and try to figure out some way of connecting an
external aerial, now the reason I need an external one is I am right on
the edge of their coverage and only get a single bar using just the
router, I do have some images of the inside of the router so I will post
the links for them later, but I was just wondering if anyone has heard
of this being done in the UK?


I once did some experiments with cell phone antenna couplers. Phones
were arriving which did not have a projecting antenna or any easy
method of attaching an external antenna. The trick was to design a
phone base that included some kind of coupler that did not require any
connection or modification to the phone (or the FCC would reject it
for type certification).

The initial design was for 1900 Mhz only, but later mutations covered
both 800 and 1900. In Europe, that would be 1800 and 900 MHz. I
tried patch, loop, resonant loop, slot, cavity backed resonator, along
with various reflectors. All of them were lossy. In the near field,
all acted more like capacitors and xformers than antennas. So, the
executive decision was to use the simplest, easiest, and cheapest,
which was the loop. Second best was a 1/2 dipole, which was
problematic due to its length.

I don't know what frequency your Gemtek WLTFSR-115GN operates on 4G:
http://www.gemtek.com.tw/pro_LTE_WLTFSR.htm
but when you find out, just cut a length of wire 1 wavelength long,
make a loop in almost any shape, and place it as close to the internal
antenna as possible. The impedance will be about 100 ohms, so use 75
ohm CATV coax (RG-6/u) to the antenna. Never mind the mismatch at
both the antenna and the loop. It's not worth the hassle matching it.
You'll need to move the loop around the case to find the best pickup
point. When you find it, tape it in place.

I'm not sure what to recommend for the outside antenna. Much depends
on the frequency of operation. In the US, most of the 4G stuff is
moving to 700 MHz, leaving 800/1900 for voice and 3G data. Therefore,
a single band 700 MHz antenna would be required for the US. No clue
for the UK (and I'm too lazy to look it up). If it is single band, a
simple patch antenna will get you about 8dBi gain. If you want more,
look into yagi, corner reflector, or dish antennas. I'm partial to
AMOS/Franklin antennas, but if your UK 4G system uses polarization
based spatial diversity for MIMO, a single linear polarized antenna
will limit your maximum download speed. This is probably more than
you want to deal with, so I suggest starting with a simple 1/2 wave
dipole and escalate as needed.

Good luck.




--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
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Old April 30th 15, 12:44 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Apr 2015
Posts: 6
Default External aerial for 4G+ (LTE Advanced) [Relish.net] Router

On 29/04/2015 23:34, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 27 Apr 2015 21:28:36 +0100, Jim
wrote:

Firstly sorry if this is OT guys but you do seem the best people to ask.

I'm bored. OT will have to suffice.

The part of London I live in has rubbish ISP speeds (4 mbit) and I have
been offered an old Relish.net router which is a Gemtek WLTFSR-115GN, I
know some of these have external aerial sockets (US ones I think) but
the version I will get does not have any external sockets, so it's a
case of go inside and try to figure out some way of connecting an
external aerial, now the reason I need an external one is I am right on
the edge of their coverage and only get a single bar using just the
router, I do have some images of the inside of the router so I will post
the links for them later, but I was just wondering if anyone has heard
of this being done in the UK?

I once did some experiments with cell phone antenna couplers. Phones
were arriving which did not have a projecting antenna or any easy
method of attaching an external antenna. The trick was to design a
phone base that included some kind of coupler that did not require any
connection or modification to the phone (or the FCC would reject it
for type certification).

The initial design was for 1900 Mhz only, but later mutations covered
both 800 and 1900. In Europe, that would be 1800 and 900 MHz. I
tried patch, loop, resonant loop, slot, cavity backed resonator, along
with various reflectors. All of them were lossy. In the near field,
all acted more like capacitors and xformers than antennas. So, the
executive decision was to use the simplest, easiest, and cheapest,
which was the loop. Second best was a 1/2 dipole, which was
problematic due to its length.

I don't know what frequency your Gemtek WLTFSR-115GN operates on 4G:
http://www.gemtek.com.tw/pro_LTE_WLTFSR.htm
but when you find out, just cut a length of wire 1 wavelength long,
make a loop in almost any shape, and place it as close to the internal
antenna as possible. The impedance will be about 100 ohms, so use 75
ohm CATV coax (RG-6/u) to the antenna. Never mind the mismatch at
both the antenna and the loop. It's not worth the hassle matching it.
You'll need to move the loop around the case to find the best pickup
point. When you find it, tape it in place.

I'm not sure what to recommend for the outside antenna. Much depends
on the frequency of operation. In the US, most of the 4G stuff is
moving to 700 MHz, leaving 800/1900 for voice and 3G data. Therefore,
a single band 700 MHz antenna would be required for the US. No clue
for the UK (and I'm too lazy to look it up). If it is single band, a
simple patch antenna will get you about 8dBi gain. If you want more,
look into yagi, corner reflector, or dish antennas. I'm partial to
AMOS/Franklin antennas, but if your UK 4G system uses polarization
based spatial diversity for MIMO, a single linear polarized antenna
will limit your maximum download speed. This is probably more than
you want to deal with, so I suggest starting with a simple 1/2 wave
dipole and escalate as needed.

Good luck.




Thanks for the reply, I have been looking into it a bit more and it
seems they use 124Mhz in the LTE bands of 43 and 43 which is about
3.5GHz and 3.6GHz
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Old April 30th 15, 03:27 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,336
Default External aerial for 4G+ (LTE Advanced) [Relish.net] Router

On Thu, 30 Apr 2015 00:44:19 +0100, Jim
wrote:

Thanks for the reply, I have been looking into it a bit more and it
seems they use 124Mhz in the LTE bands of 43 and 43 which is about
3.5GHz and 3.6GHz


http://www.ukbroadband.com/4g-networks
http://www.ukbroadband.com/relish
https://www1.relish.net
You're right. 3500/3700 MHz.

I don't think you'll find a commercial antenna that covers that range.
You'll probably end up building something.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
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