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Newbie - Studying for Tech & planning station setup - Vertical antennaquestion
Hello, ladies and gentlemen,
Allow me (Volker) to introduce myself. After a lengty period of SWL, DX and Utility (including amateur bands) listening I have finally made up my mind to get a Beginner and Tech license in Spain, where I live. Spanish ham legislation is quite different from the US (or rest of Europe, for what that may count) in many ways. Licenses are class B (52 MHz), class C (Limited HF, does NOT include 50 MHz) and class A (General, all HF and U/V/SHF). Both C and A require CW at 8, respectively 12 WPM. You DON'T get your callsign with your ticket, but only after you passed the exam you're allowed to file an application to operate a Ham station. The Application has to include a complete listing of all the equipment operated in the station, including serial numbers (this, as a matter of fact, leaves you at their mercy, because you need to go out, buy your rig to give them the serial numbers and file the bills with the application, but they may reject your application, altought this does not happen often) and a plan of all the radiating elements and their supports you plan to install, including calculations for the wind resistance, snow load (yeah, right), EIRP / ERP data. After you applied, after a couple of months you will be notified that your application has been accepted. Then you've three months to complete the installation of the equipment, and after you notify the telecomm agency that you have carried out the installation and provided proof ot 3rd-party liability insurance for the antennas, and they eventually inspected your installation and equipment you get your callsign. OTOH, the installation of ham and CB antennas is well covered by the spanish law. Not your landlord, not your neighbors, not even town building authorities may forbid the installation of ham antennas, unless technical reasons or other compelling circumstances speak against it. Saying "we don't want a ham antenna on our roof" is NOT a compelling reason, even if supported by the majority of the owners / residents in an appartment house. Now to what it comes... B License would give me the well known operating privileges on 80, 40, 15 and 10 Mts. Well, to "start on a budget" and since I will need to buy new rig (a used market is unexistant in Spain, most guys selling on Ebay will not ship here and not be able to provide an official bill) and your rig (unless full homebrew) REQUIRES a CE-Certificate here in Spain. The pount is that our rooftop is only 19 x 15 Meters. Make the numbers for a half-wawe dipole for 80 Mts (or even 40) and it does not fit. I could maybe pull a half-wave for 40Mts diagonally across the roof, but I would then not be able to comply with the mandatory 3 Mts distance to the TV antenna. So I looked into alternatives. The G5RV for 40-10 Mts would fit on either sides of the roof (Actually, and since they are rather cheap, I plan on installing two, one N-S and one E-W, Since I plan to work both Africa (southwards) and Europe (the Alps would be in a "blank" on my "E-W"-Dipole) The point is that I'd be missing an antenna for 80 mts, a band that actually interest me more that 20 Mts and above, because I'l mostly be working at night. The idea was to put up a vertical, but I am a bit confused about the requirement for a ground. (Besides the fact that the whole building does not have a ground) I don't think the rooftop counts as adecuate radio ground for a vertical, right? If I take one with radials, especially for that band I'm in trouble with the 3 Mts from the TV antenna again, especially with the radials, or I have to put up a pole or turret providing at least 5 Mts vertical separation, which would be asides from expensive, because I'd need to built a foundation for it, provide additional suspension cords (not needed with the dipoles) So, what are my options here? Anyone has an idea for a widely available commercial solution, for 80 Mts or multiband with limited space requirements? The only other option I've come across is the Watson Plus80-2, but it seems to perform a lot worse than the G5RV or most verticals. Thanks, and best regards to all, Volker |
#2
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In message , Volker Kerkhoff
writes Hello, ladies and gentlemen, Hello. Licenses are class B (52 MHz), class C (Limited HF, does NOT include 50 MHz) and class A (General, all HF and U/V/SHF). Both C and A require CW at 8, respectively 12 WPM. Snip Now to what it comes... B License would give me the well known operating privileges on 80, 40, 15 and 10 Mts. This contradicts what you said above: "Class B above 52 MHz" Mike |
#3
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Volker, good luck with the bureaucratic guantlet you're running.
The only commercially-available vertical(s) I'm aware of that would meet your described needs are the Butternut, and the GAP. Butternut can be used with either shortened radials, or none at al; you will of course, see reduced, but acceptable performance. The GAP vertical uses a set of "counterpoises", of a length shorther than for normal radials. They're both worth investigation. 73, Mike KI6PR "Volker Kerkhoff" wrote Now to what it comes... B License would give me the well known operating privileges on 80, 40, 15 and 10 Mts. Well, to "start on a budget" and since I will need to buy new rig (a used market is unexistant in Spain, most guys selling on Ebay will not ship here and not be able to provide an official bill) and your rig (unless full homebrew) REQUIRES a CE-Certificate here in Spain. The pount is that our rooftop is only 19 x 15 Meters. Make the numbers for a half-wawe dipole for 80 Mts (or even 40) and it does not fit. I could maybe pull a half-wave for 40Mts diagonally across the roof, but I would then not be able to comply with the mandatory 3 Mts distance to the TV antenna. So I looked into alternatives. The G5RV for 40-10 Mts would fit on either sides of the roof (Actually, and since they are rather cheap, I plan on installing two, one N-S and one E-W, Since I plan to work both Africa (southwards) and Europe (the Alps would be in a "blank" on my "E-W"-Dipole) The point is that I'd be missing an antenna for 80 mts, a band that actually interest me more that 20 Mts and above, because I'l mostly be working at night. The idea was to put up a vertical, but I am a bit confused about the requirement for a ground. (Besides the fact that the whole building does not have a ground) I don't think the rooftop counts as adecuate radio ground for a vertical, right? If I take one with radials, especially for that band I'm in trouble with the 3 Mts from the TV antenna again, especially with the radials, or I have to put up a pole or turret providing at least 5 Mts vertical separation, which would be asides from expensive, because I'd need to built a foundation for it, provide additional suspension cords (not needed with the dipoles) So, what are my options here? Anyone has an idea for a widely available commercial solution, for 80 Mts or multiband with limited space requirements? The only other option I've come across is the Watson Plus80-2, but it seems to perform a lot worse than the G5RV or most verticals. Thanks, and best regards to all, Volker |
#4
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M. J. Powell wrote:
In message , Volker Kerkhoff writes Now to what it comes... B License would give me the well known operating privileges on 80, 40, 15 and 10 Mts. This contradicts what you said above: "Class B above 52 MHz" Oops.. Should have proofread before sending. I meant class C, equivalent (I think) to the US Beginner with limited HF privileges. Spain is still holding on to the 8 WPM CW req for this class, and to 12 WPM for class A or "General". I'd still appreciate some advice on the antenna question, though. |
#5
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Mikey wrote:
Volker, good luck with the bureaucratic guantlet you're running. Yep, but others have done it before, since this new law came out in 1987 (and it has not been reviewed since). Actually a rework is due after a new general telecommunications law came out last year, but I guess that'll be another 6 months at least. 6 months I can hardly wait, I actually don't know how I've been able to wait for almost 20 years since I came of legal age to get a license... The only commercially-available vertical(s) I'm aware of that would meet your described needs are the Butternut, and the GAP. Butternut can be used with either shortened radials, or none at al; you will of course, see reduced, but acceptable performance. The GAP vertical uses a set of "counterpoises", of a length shorther than for normal radials. They're both worth investigation. Thanks a lot... Local ham shops in a city like Barcelona are really not up to it, I doubt they have a licensed amateur around, and want to sell the most expensive stuff... Although the two antennas you mention are not really cheap... Another idea would have been to cover up to 40 mts with a G5VR, and then put up a yagi for 80 mts, to keep the expense in turret and rotor within certain limits... What about that? I understand that the G5RV loses a lot of directionality when mounted an an inverted V, so I migh get away with just one of them? 73, Volker |
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