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OCF Dipole vs. G5RV vs. Carolina Windom ???



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 23rd 03, 03:38 PM
Deane Charlson
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Default OCF Dipole vs. G5RV vs. Carolina Windom ???

Hello,

I have been using single-band half-wave dipoles for years. I would like
to try some multi-band wire antennas and compare performance. I am
considering using an Off Center Fed Dipole or a G5RV or a Carolina
Windom. Any thoughts or experiences with these antennas as compared to
a half-wave dipole?

Thanks & 73s,
Deane
WB2DCF

  #2  
Old October 23rd 03, 05:41 PM
Richard Clark
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Default

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:38:15 -0400, Deane Charlson
wrote:

Hello,

I have been using single-band half-wave dipoles for years. I would like
to try some multi-band wire antennas and compare performance. I am
considering using an Off Center Fed Dipole or a G5RV or a Carolina
Windom. Any thoughts or experiences with these antennas as compared to
a half-wave dipole?

Thanks & 73s,
Deane
WB2DCF


Hi Dean,

Keep your dipole and add a tuner.

There is nothing magical about other designs if their overall
dimension is roughly the same as what you have now. If you want to
work a lower band, try driving the shorted transmission line drop
against ground (that is, short the transmission line at ground level,
and drive that as a top loaded vertical, but make sure you have a
modest investment in radials at that drive point for ground).

There are only two things of interest with an antenna (beyond
aesthetics - if that isn't a contradiction in terms): drive point
impedance and launch characteristics. Impedance can often be taken
care of with a tuner (with care for Hi-Z issues at half wave
intervals) and launch characteristics are a function of physical size
and wavelength. When it comes to size, it won't much matter what name
the antenna is called (unless you are switching from vertical to
horizontal); hence the advice that if those antennas you are
considering are not significantly larger/smaller, then they will not
be significantly better/worse.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC
  #3  
Old October 23rd 03, 07:46 PM
Reg Edwards
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Default

but make sure you have a
modest investment in radials at that drive point for ground.


=================================

Good to see, along with other members of the Establishment, you've dropped
Marzipan the Magician's magic number of 120 each of 1/4-or 1/2 wavelength.

Stop adding radials when the added number of 1/8th or 1/10th wavelength
radials produces no further increase in receiving signal strength.

You're learning !


  #4  
Old October 24th 03, 12:28 AM
Thierry
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Deane Charlson" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I have been using single-band half-wave dipoles for years. I would like
to try some multi-band wire antennas and compare performance. I am
considering using an Off Center Fed Dipole or a G5RV or a Carolina
Windom. Any thoughts or experiences with these antennas as compared to
a half-wave dipole?


Hi,

Multiband dipole like G5RV is fine, W3DZZ also. The only difference is the
feeder.
But both are wires antenna and will give similar results.

So think about the feeder
ABout G5RV, read this : http://www.astrosurf.com/lombry/qsl-g5rv.htm

73
Thierry
ON4SKY, LX3SKY

Thanks & 73s,
Deane
WB2DCF



  #5  
Old October 25th 03, 10:52 PM
David L Thompson
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Posts: n/a
Default

Deane,

All are good antennas. I sold the Fritzel FD-4 80 to 10 OCF dipole in the
mid 90's and used one with good results. I would recommend the Carolina
Short 80 (previously called the Carolina Beam). This has a leg up on the
others if you want both Dx and local skywave results.

The comment about keeping the dipole and adding a tuner is a good one too.
I would suggest making the dipole 135 feet long and using ladderlime tho.
Remember none of these will equal a beam or phased verticals. many of the
locals have put up a big loop skywire (either 80 or 160 full wave loops)
with good success. I have a 80 meter loop up at my Island second home and
can work the world with 100 watts.
73 Dave K4JRB

Deane Charlson wrote in message
...
Hello,

I have been using single-band half-wave dipoles for years. I would like
to try some multi-band wire antennas and compare performance. I am
considering using an Off Center Fed Dipole or a G5RV or a Carolina
Windom. Any thoughts or experiences with these antennas as compared to
a half-wave dipole?

Thanks & 73s,
Deane
WB2DCF



  #6  
Old October 26th 03, 09:57 AM
Mark Keith
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Default

Richard Clark wrote:

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:38:15 -0400, Deane Charlson
wrote:

Hello,

I have been using single-band half-wave dipoles for years. I would like
to try some multi-band wire antennas and compare performance. I am
considering using an Off Center Fed Dipole or a G5RV or a Carolina
Windom. Any thoughts or experiences with these antennas as compared to
a half-wave dipole?


--
http://web.wt.net/~nm5k

If strictly comparing performance, all three are inferior when compared
to the coax fed dipoles. To be honest, I've tried all of the antennas
you mention, and I have no use for any of them. I thought overall, they
were pathetic. I agree, if you want to run all bands, just feed a dipole
of the lowest band you want to run with ladder line. If you use a tuner,
use the very least inductance to get a usable match. That will greatly
reduce tuner losses. Nothing you try will beat a coax fed dipole for
pure efficiency, unless you use a no-tuner method like Cecils no tuner
ladder line setup. But careful use if the tuner will leave losses low
enough to not really worry about. Well, unless you are like me, and want
every last drop....I stick with parallel dipoles fed with a single coax.
At the moment I have 80/40/20 dipoles on one line. I can use the tuner
on other bands if needed.
But those bands I get: no tuner needed, no tuner losses, the advantages
of coax, and a normal dipole pattern on those bands. My total system
losses are very low. I don't like using a tuner as you can probably
tell. :/. I'll avoid it like the plague if possible.
The OCF is prone to common mode problems. Same with the windom which is
basically the same thing. The average storebought windom and G5RV's
suffer from excess feedline losses due to the micky mouse feedline
design. IE: coax to balun to ladder line to antenna...Add tuner loss for
all band use...What a micky mouse mess... I compared coax fed dipoles
to both a storebought windom and a storebought G5RV at previous field
days. Ate em for lunch. I mean absolutely tore em a new one...You could
see a 2 S unit difference just in the efficiency difference. On theirs,
everything would drop. Noise, signals, everything. Pattern was not an
issue. Was a painful sight for the owners of those antennas. They had no
clue they were that inferior until I A/B'ed those puppies using an
antenna switch. You can improve the performance if you design a
better feed system. IE: dump all the garbage, and run ladder line the
whole way. MK
  #7  
Old October 26th 03, 10:00 AM
Mark Keith
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Default

Mark Keith wrote:

Richard Clark wrote:


Oops, actually, this wasn't aimed at Richard, but the original
poster...Sorry..I don't have the original post on the server, and missed
the proper quote...MK
  #8  
Old October 26th 03, 10:32 AM
'Doc
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Default



Deane,
Give them a try! Don't throw away your present single
band antennas, though. You'll want to put them back up
after you make the comparisons, unless you're willing to
swap performance for simplicity (in some cases).
'Doc
  #9  
Old November 5th 03, 07:34 PM
Desmoface
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Posts: n/a
Default

Hey guys and gals, Im kind of new on this group...What do you guys think about
full wave horizontal loops?? I was researching my next antenna and wanted to
homebrew a wire of some sort...was all set to make a fan dipole for 20, 40 and
80 when someone turned me onto full wave loops..with a tuner it is said that a
full wave 80 meter loop can tune most of the higher frequencies (10, 20, 40 and
probably the warc bands)..makes sence as 1 wavelenght on 80 is 2 on 40, 4 on
20, etc...

Oh well, mine is ready to go up, have to leader lines in the trees, all im
waiting for is wire, rope and coax which should be here any day...

What do you guys/gals think of the full wave loops?

Steve
kb8viv
 




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