RadioBanter - View Single Post

[email protected] · December 20th 06, 11:55 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.policy

From: on Tues, Dec 19 2006 6:30 pm

wrote:
wrote:
From: on Sun, Dec 17 2006 3:22 pm
an_old_friend wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
Jim Hampton wrote:

Perhaps now we can discuss N2EY's proposal for a No-Test service.

There was never any such proposal. You are mistaken, in error, and just
plain wrong.

sure there is you have often said

Jim/N2EY was the very first to roll that one out, at least that I am
aware of.

I am not in favor of a "No-Test" amateur radio service. Nor have I ever
advocated such.

Anyone who says I have is mistaken - in error - just plain wrong.

So when you trotted that one out way back when, it really was a
strawman as I described it then. Yet you said it wasn't.

Brian, we have to quit trying to make Miccolis admit to doing
wrong. Miccolis "never" does wrong. He is a morse-tested
amateur extra...ergo, he never has done anything wrong. :-)

Ahem...three things as I saw them, Brian:

1. That "they [FCC] MIGHT just as well eliminate writtens" was
such a COMMON rejoinder by pro-coders that it became
another myth in the minds of the 1930s-standards-retro
folk. To them everything was about the code test.

That's not true about me.

Like Dee a couple of weeks ago, it's what "other hams" were saying.

Tsk, nobody admits to the "follow-on" of "[they] might just
as well eliminate the writtens." :-)

Nobody admits to having written that so - in their mind -
they never wrote it. :-)

by his tacit admission (and self-praise) never
ever done anything wrong nor ever expressed a bad attitude
(dictated by the Elders of the Church of St. Hiram).

Len, that's what *you* do. Not me.

Len is no Elder of the Church of Saint Hiram.

Heh heh heh...I'm more like good old Marty Luther, he what
hammered up his Theses on the front doors of his church.

Tsk, tsk, Miccolis was merely some germ plasm when I first
fired up a KW on HF...but, having studied in the "seminary"
of the Church of St. Hiram, he now feels he is a "father"
in that Order. Heh heh heh heh heh. More like "mother."

Why,
if pinned to the wall by someone, he will self-righteously
(and in 'outrage') demand for 'proof' by going into thousands
upon thousands of old, old Google archives and copying the
'proof.' [AS IF this was evidenciary in some mythical
court of law]

The facts are what they are. You don't seem to like facts, Len, if they
disprove your cherished opinions.

"Facts are stupid things." Ronald Raygun

Brian, I think it should be worded "some stupids think they
know 'facts'" but those 'facts' are just very selected
little items of information which said stupids then use to
make their point. Erroneous use of such selected quanta.

However one wants to quibble about Pres Ronnie, he has one
heck of nice Presidential Library on the west side of Simi
Valley, CA. Beautiful in fact. Even better with the Air
Force One Exhibit which opened earlier this year. Very
impressive.

3. Several others well back before 1998 were using the general
remark of "if the code test is eliminated, then the writtens
will be 'next' because it 'follows the progression.'"

That has already happened.

In 2000, the *written* testing for the three classes of license still
available was reduced significantly.

Yet the QP can be increased infinitely.

Miccolis uses "reduced 'significantly'" as if the "significant"
amounted to nearly half. NEVER so. He exaggerates more than
"significantly." :-)

[Out of 41 pages of FCC 06-178, only 20 pages concern the
R&O itself...the remaining half is a listing of ALL who
commented on the NPRM...if Miccolis read, really read,
not just skimming, even a tenth of those comments, I would
be surprised...I read ALL of them and keep them on a CD]
As far as a "statistical fact," Miccolis cribbed right from
Joe Speroni's website, inferring he did the stat summary
(after the fact) but he never did a day-by-day collection
and running status of opinions as I did (posting them in
this newsgroup).

As a point of FACT, Part 97, Title 47 C.F.R. has included the
rule ONLY ON A MINIMUM NUMBER of questions in the written
test pool. That since privatized testing began. At present,
the VEC Question Pool Committee ONLY makes the MINIMUM number
of questions. There's NO LIMIT on what the VEC QPC could
legally and rightly produce, plus no real problem on
distribution of the QP to outlying VEC locations electronically.

Yet that wasn't enough for some. At least one recent proposal (NCVEC's
second proposal) claimed the 35 question multiple-choice Technician was
'too hard' and that a new license class with even less *written*
testing is needed.

The Technician License is not entry level.

True. Never was the intention of that Class. However, its
growth (since 1991) has been so enormous that it is way
more populous than any other US amateur radio license class.
Lots of folks have been calling the Tech license "entry level"
because that is what it has become in recent years.

picked up on that, reworded it, but repeated it...apparently
making certain he couldn't be found 'guilty' of EXACT wording.

Show us.

It's what you do.

Poor Jimmie, he's been sipping at the sour grapes again. :-)

"Outraged" Miccolis always DEMANDS that any challenger (to
his noble-godlike opinions) SHOW EVERYONE EXACTLY where
Miccolis wrote something in the past. If we don't bother
with redux-infinity quoting His Words, he feels "vindicated"
(if not smug and triumphant). [see, he never wrote anything
that his accusers say he did...therefore he never did!] :-)

Pointing out that the written requirements have been reduced is not the
same thing as advocating a 'no test' amateur radio service. Not the
same thing at all.

If you don't and never have advocated a "No-Test" license, why did you
trot it out?

Miccolis is a runner...perhaps he slowed down to a trot?

as do most of the ProCoders that the
NoCode would be followed your proposal to end testing

They think that there might as well be no testing at all now that the
code exam is gone.

I'm as pro-code-test as they come, and I do not think that at all.

And the Morse Code test in the USA isn't gone yet. It will take a few
weeks at most
for the bureaucratic wheels to turn and make the change effective.

See how many you can recruit before it goes away. Anyone should be
able to learn 5WPM and take a 13-15WPM exam in a couple of weeks,
right?

AB-SO-LUTELY sayeth all the pro-coders, practically en masse.

:-)

The pro-coders did it so "everybody" can do it!

As usual, the morsemen think of themselves as Role Model for
the US amateur radio service. As such, they had all the
courage/gumption/smarts/aptitude to be extra-super-special
morsemen. All who didn't do as They did are "lazy" and/or
"stupid." :-)

If the times were of the 1930s and 1940s they would be
correct. However, we are living now 70+ years AFTER
that time.

They sure don't value the writtens very much, do they?

Well, I do. They could be better, though.

Even though you say that now, I recall you trotting out that "No-Test"
strawman

Miccolis will NEVER admit to any such thing! :-)

We will now be treated to some "outraged demands" to "show
everyone 'EXACTLY' what Jimmie wrote!" :-)

He wants ATTENTION and misdirection both...trotting out old
outdated arguments of the past, perhaps hoping to "win" one
years later.

To the pro-coders EVERYTHING in amateur radio was about morse
code use, venerating the mode of on-off keying CW, and
generally making them "masters of the radio waves" by their
skill at a DEFUNCT radio communications mode once championed
in the 1930s and 1940s.

Not true at all. There's a lot to amateur radio besides Morse Code.
Which is not 'defunct' at all.

...a few weeks.

Miccolis USES morse code regularly. He champions that singular
mode. He must feel that "all" amateurs must do as he does and
is ****ed that all do NOT. Tsk, tsk.

The VEC QPC has made up ALL the written test elements for years
but not a single pro-coder seems to admit to ever contacting
the VEC QPC about that content...at least not in here.

That doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

Not everyone brags on and on like you, Len ;-)

Ahem, seven hostile actions...

Tsk, Jimmie is doing the finger-pointing misdirection thing
again...and FAILING to acknowledge his 'brethren' in the code
wars who (almost daily) commit atrocities of personal insults
and BRAGS of things they can't prove.

Hmmm..."It ain't braggin' if ya done it" was (at one time) a
Miccolis standard rejoinder in here...it being a slight mis-
quote of what baseball player Dizzy Dean once said. Problem
is, Miccolis hardly ever gets specific on what he does so he
claims to look blameless in the bragging department! :-)

One
reason (perhaps) is they don't give a damn about the writtens.

Another reason is that they don't tell you everything.

Another is that they don't give a damn about the writtens.

WE KNOW that Miccolis doesn't "tell us everything." :-)

Everything is about morsemanship in operating on the ham
bands to them.

Even if true - what's wrong with that?

An amateur is balanced.

"The Amateur's Code" was written in the late 1920s(?) and
code was king on the few ham bands existing in the 1930s
and 1940s. Ahem...I almost hate to tell Jimmie that time
now is 70 or so years LATER... :-)

If you are really only against the *test*, what's wrong with *using*
Morse Code?

It's perfectly legal.

Of course it is legal. But Miccolis INFERRED that no-code-
test advocates were "against the USE" of morse code. It is
a nice tactic to divert blame or at least to infer it being
on the other person.

we arre awaiting you ideas on the subject

What ideas? He just wanted to dump the written.

Untrue.

Riiiight. Dumping the writtens was just a strawman.

Hmmm...it must be made of fireproof straw since its been
set afire time after time. :-)

In essence, that is true

No, it's completely untru.

Heil/K8MN says people who cannot spell are not worthy of being leaders.

"Untru"? :-)

Only in a witches coven are the 'spellers' worthy of being
leaders. :-)

...despite

denials.

Then show where it was proposed.

RRAP

:-)

All the
pro-coders were using the rationalization about the Archaic
Radiotelegraphy Society (ARS) and the 'necessity' to keep
code testing. Forever.

What's wrong with wanting to keep a good thing?

I thought it was the ITU rule that was the stumbling block?

Actually, Radio Regulation S25...most of it got revised
3 1/2 years ago at WRC-03. That included the artifact of
all nations having to test radio amateur license applicants
for morse code ability for any license privileges below
30 MHz. The IARU promoted it. ARRL did NOT. And that is
historical fact of 3 1/2 years ago.

"Forever" is about to cease. The "End of the World As They
Know It" is about to happen. Their sky will fall. Chickens
Little will scamper about, shouting epithets and nastywords
at evil, loathsome no-coders and the "failure" to "keep
standards high"..."standards" that have been drilled into
their psyches for decades by the Elders of Newington.

No, not at all.

"Slow Code" is an artifact from the chicken little syndrome.

Wince Ficus is one story, Miccolis is another. Both have
been brainwashed and don't see it (conditioned thinking
leaves that impression on the washed brains).

It's just another bad decision by FCC.

A good decision.

It is MODERNIZATION of some of the many USA civil radio
regulations. By now Part 97 might be entering the world
of about 1970... :-)

They make some good decisions
and some bad decisions.

True enough. And the Code Free HF license with almost exclusively CW
priveleges is an artifact of the piecemeal approach that the FCC uses
WRT the ARS.

Good point, Brian. However, that came into being several
years ago as a result of some relatively obscure lobbying
efforts of some pro-coders. The FCC appeased those lobbyists
by creating the code-only 6 and 2 meter band slivers.

Do you think their BPL decisions are good ones?

No. Do you?

Tsk, more diversion from the subject. Broadband over Power
Lines is NOT under discussion. BPL has NOTHING to do with
code testing.

I've been gone for a few days, didn't hear about it until
late Friday night and then only in a casual remark over a
telephone call. Got on a friend's computer and saw that
the End of Code Testing was the #1 news item on the FCC
home page. [it doesn't appear on the Amateur page under
Wireless Bureau, but then little happens there in keeping
up to date] Wonder upon wonders! :-)

Guess who broke the news here on rrap, Len, by starting this thread?

"QUOTE

2.

by his tacit admission (and self-praise) never
ever done anything wrong nor ever expressed a bad attitude
(dictated by the Elders of the Church of St. Hiram).

Len, that's what *you* do. Not me.

"UNQUOTE

...and self-praise

:-) I'd do a Robesin hyena laugh but that is unseemly. :-)

Given that Miccolis doesn't seem to do anything with his free
time except haunt ham radio places, it's no wonder he hopped
in here quick to "post the news." :-) shrug

The MEDIA NOTICE was posted on 15 Dec 06 and the R&O text was
posted on 19 Dec 06...on the FCC website. It was there for all
to see whenever they could get to that website. Some of us (in
fact, MOST of us) also do other things and don't "live" in the
ham bands nor have adopted some kind of Lifestyle of Everything
Evolves Around Amateur Radio.

Okay, now I'm reflecting about the GLORY of the democratic
process in petitioning our government for a redress of
grievances. IT WORKS!

Not really.

Seems to.

Seems that way to me, too. I'm still a believer in the form
of government we Americans have in the USA. So much so that
I volunteered for military service during a time of war.
Miccolis never did such a thing. He can go to another
country if he doesn't 'approve' of the USA.

An agency of our government
believed the words of our citizens in wanting change and
is about to rule on that change.

A majority of those who commented on the Morse Code test issue
wanted at least *some* Morse Code testing to remain. The majority
did *not* want complete elimination.

Leadership doesn't mean taking a poll.

DECISIONS on Reports and Orders aren't made by 'votes' on who
comments on what and for which 'side.' All those DECISIONS in
FCC 06-178 are clearly and unambiguously stated by the FCC in
that Report and Order. [by the way, Brian, you are mentioned
in it, footnote 48 on Page 8...:-) ]

Report and Order DECISIONS are influenced by the REASONS
presented by commenters (to NPRM 05-143). "Reasons" that
have become mythos in US amateur radio of the 1930s do NOT
necessarily apply in the year 2006.

Yet FCC ignored the majority and will completely eliminate Morse
Code testing very soon.

Explain how ignoring the majority means "IT WORKS".

"Serves no regulatory purpose" was the key point.

There are several key points and brought out by the FCC in
06-178. Problem is, Miccolis has been taking in too much
whine of the sour grapes to admit it. Tsk.

CHANGE will happen,
despite the former ruling party of pro-coders' spitting
and snarling about "spamming" the government with "anti-
ham" attitudes wanting the code test gone. :-)

Your wordy piles of commentary to FCC amounted to spam, Len, and
probably slowed down the process.

"Wha, wha, whaaaa" cried the imbiber of whine of sour
grapes. Tsk, tsk.

There were some 3900 (give or take) commenters on NPRM
05-143 and all are listed on Pages 21 to 41 of 06-178.
Only ONE of them is me. :-)

On more reflections, FCC 99-412, the R&O establishing
the Restructuring of 2000, was released on 30 Dec 1999.
I wouldn't be surprised if the FCC releases the R&O on
code testing elimination about that same date...the
news release (not a law, just a 'media advisory') was
done on 15 Dec 2006, almost 7 years later. I think of
it as a Christmas Present or the Start of a New Era
along with a New Year. Glory in Excelsus!

The announcement was made at the end of the business day on a Friday.
That way FCC doesn't have to deal with the responses right away.

I wonder if the emnergency rooms across the nation were deluged with
stroke victims?

:-) Not hardly. However, morsemen DO experience some
strange "hardening of the arteries" supplying their brains.
Few are able to think beyond the 1930s and 1940s' standards
and practices in AMATEUR radio. :-)

Modernization is Happening in US amateur radio. Regs
are finally catching up to late-1900s standards!
[catching up, they will be approaching 1980 when the
code elimination R&O is released]

Did amateurs stop using Morse Code in 1980, Len?

They could have.

Jimmie tried to DIVERT the subject again. One of the basic
parts of FCC 06-178 is the elimination of morse code
TESTING. TESTING, not "use." Miccolis is loathe to admit
that and inserts his little "bon mots" here and there to
show "others" the error of their ways. :-)

A majority of "the People" did *not* want complete Morse Code test
elimination, Len.

FCC gave "the People" what they did not want.

They sure didn't listen to the ARRL, thank God!

Poor Jimmie Miccolis...he thinks HE is "the people!" :-)

[with due apologies to Zenna Henderson...]

In a few days the official Report and Order will be released, and in a
few weeks it will be effective. The only surprise is how long it has
taken for FCC to make the change. Three and a half years since the
treaty changed!

Those darned treaties.

How about that?!? :-) Them darn treaties just didn't
give "the people" "what they wanted?!?" :-) Oh, my!

So, the International Amateur Radio Union - who prompted
for the S25 rewrite were "WRONG" in Miccolis' estimation?

Sunnavagun! The "whole world" is "wrong" when the morse-
men don't get their way! :-)

And once the Morse Code test is completely gone, what will you do, Len?
You won't have anything to carry on about on rrap anymore.

Nor you. Sayonara.

FCC 06-178 has NOT YET been published in the Federal Register
(at least to 20 December 2006). Therefore nothing has changed
in amateur radio up to that date. Why should any no-code-test
advocate leave here? :-) Watching the morsemen get terrible
hangovers from the whine of sour grapes is SO much fun! :-)