"AI4QJ" wrote in
:


"Yuri Blanarovich" wrote in message
...

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
et...
I have learned from my burned up Hustler coil mystery all the way
to "no power in standing waves" and where all those electrons,
photons and other antenna creaters go when I feed them power.

There's plenty of energy in those standing waves, Yuri,
existing as "reactive power" as defined by the IEEE
Dictionary (units of VARS from power engineering).

When any energy is extracted from a standing wave and
used to heat the Hustler coil, it automatically becomes a
traveling wave with the voltage and current in phase, not
a standing wave with the voltage and current 90 degrees out
of phase. Your Hustler coil was burned up by traveling waves,
not standing waves.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Love those absolute statements, just like my mother in-law used to
say: "because..."

So can we take it apart?
I have a quarter wave resonant, fine tuned, coil loaded Hustler
mobile 80m whippy.
So far we knew that it is a standing wave circuit. Now Cecil tells me
that it automatically becomes traveling wave in/through the coil?
Wasaaap? Christmas miracle?
We know, saw burning and measured that current decreases towards the
top as proportional to the standing wave (current). We know that
traveling wave has uniform current along the conductor (coil). That
it needs to be terminated in characteristic impedance load somewhere
in order to have nice smooth constant current distribution along the
conductor (antenna). So far I have learned that, yes, standing wave
current can burn the coil (now it is traveling), that sw voltage can
burn lossy insulator and create corona. That current through
resistance generates heat, consumes real power. That resonant antenna
is a standing wave circuit, but standing wave voltage and current,
while they are measurable and observable do not have (sw) power. When
I pump more power to the antenna, it burns faster. It takes power to
burn things, but there is no power, just current and voltage.
Normally power is voltage times current, but not in Hustler country.
(Use lossless transmission line, dummy :-)

"You are right Yuri (finally) because......."

So what happened to collapsing E field creating M field and them 90
degrees?

How can I proceed to explore standing wave antennas vs. traveling
waves if I am stuck here on the Hustler whip and its whims and "no
power" burning coils?
Must be the messed up equilibrium somewhere :-)

Huh?

The standing wave is completely reactive. It is constantly storing and
releasing energy. In addition to the standing wave we have ohmic
resistance in series and radiation resistance in parallel. For the
series ohmic resistance and parallel radiation resistance, current is
in phase when the antenna is resonant. Think of a circuit with a
capacitor, inductor and radiation resistor resonant in parallel with
an ohmic reistor in series with the RLC. The standing wave portion is
drawn by the capacitor/coil where current through the inductive
portion is lags +90 degrees wrt to voltage and through the capacitive
it leads by 90 degrees. The standing wave is merely a vibrational
energy shift between antenna system inductance and antenna system
capacitance. However, the impedance of the total circuit also consists
of real components accounting for the real power drawn by your
residential electrical service (or car battery). For this portion of
the antenna, the current is a travelling wave. Hopefully, radiation
resistance will be ohmic but that will not usually be the case with
a bug catcher.



I keep reading this stuff looking for a complete definition of this new
"standing wave" that has a life of its own.

A whole lot of the quote is inconsistent, but lets just examine this
little sentence:
... The standing wave is merely a vibrational
energy shift between antenna system inductance and antenna system
capacitance. ...

Let's consider a 50 ohm ideal transmission line with a 25 ohm ideal
resistive load in the AC steady state. There is no "antenna system
inductance and antenna system capacitance", there is no load inductance
or capacitance at all.

Now is there a "standing wave" on the transmission line in the absence of
these elements that are purported to underly "a vibrational energy shift
between antenna system inductance and antenna system capacitance"?

Of course there is... well, at least in terms of the conventional meaning
of "standing wave", so this explanation of what underlies a standing wave
must be flawed.

Owen