Sommer versus SteppIR
 

Ron was kind enough to stick with Sommer until the web page came back up.

Now that I have viewed both their page and the one for SteppIR, I have a
question.

The Sommer has an interesting phase line approach like a log period
array and the spacing of the elements is also a critical design feature.

The SteppIR has fixed elements that vary in their length per each band.

The SteppIR is elegant in its simplicity, the Sommer elegant in its
complexity.

How important is element spacing for ANY design? Does the SteppIR suffer
at all because of fixed element spacing?

Totally impractical, I know, but would the ideal beam design vary
element length AND spacing?

John
AB8O

Sommer versus SteppIR
 

On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 15:23:32 -0400, jawod wrote:

Totally impractical, I know, but would the ideal beam design vary
element length AND spacing?

Hi John,

Yes, just like adjusting the length (element spacing) of a telescope
provides for focus and hence the best resolution for a given
magnification. Fixed designs, of course, have these considerations
nailed down ahead of time. Variable designs such as StepIR at some
point have to be recognized as being generalized rather than
optimized. That is, the spacing between elements has to be selected
to suit the many possible bands and lengths of the elements. This
spacing cannot serve all combinations optimally.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Sommer versus SteppIR
 

jawod wrote:

SNIPPED

Totally impractical, I know, but would the ideal beam design vary
element length AND spacing?

John
AB8O


Answer = YES!

Sommer versus SteppIR
 

As a general rule for a yagi antenna (assuming a fixed number of
elements) the longer the boom length the greater the gain. Forced by
economic matters yagis are more often squeezed into a smaller boom size
than is optimum for best performance. Hence I don't think it is a any
problem for the designers of the Step IR to optimize the performance of
a ten meter antenna using the element spacing and boom length of a 20
meter antenna.

Sommer versus SteppIR
 

AC7PN wrote:
As a general rule for a yagi antenna (assuming a fixed number of
elements) the longer the boom length the greater the gain. Forced by
economic matters yagis are more often squeezed into a smaller boom size
than is optimum for best performance. Hence I don't think it is a any
problem for the designers of the Step IR to optimize the performance of
a ten meter antenna using the element spacing and boom length of a 20
meter antenna.

Any votes SteppIR versus Sommer?

Sommer versus SteppIR
 

In my mind it is a no contest situation... The SteppIR is very well
thought of by the owners...

Another check point is what the serious contestors are running... I
know of no one using Sommer, but I'm starting to see them install the
SteppIR...

denny

Sommer versus SteppIR
 

"Denny" wrote in message
oups.com...
In my mind it is a no contest situation... The SteppIR is very well
thought of by the owners...

Another check point is what the serious contestors are running... I
know of no one using Sommer, but I'm starting to see them install the
SteppIR...

denny


My 4-el SteppIR has been up nearly two years.
I love it.
73
H.
NQ5H

Sommer versus SteppIR
 

My next antenna is a 3 element SteppIR with the 6m option and 40/30m dipole
option. I currently have a Hy-Gain Explorer 14 with 40m kit.

I vote SteppIR.
--
Pete . .
ZS5ACT

------ Reply Separator ------

"jawod" wrote in message ...
AC7PN wrote:
As a general rule for a yagi antenna (assuming a fixed number of
elements) the longer the boom length the greater the gain. Forced by
economic matters yagis are more often squeezed into a smaller boom size
than is optimum for best performance. Hence I don't think it is a any
problem for the designers of the Step IR to optimize the performance of
a ten meter antenna using the element spacing and boom length of a 20
meter antenna.

Any votes SteppIR versus Sommer?

Sommer versus SteppIR
 

On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 20:51:25 +0200, "Pete"
wrote:

My next antenna is a 3 element SteppIR with the 6m option and 40/30m dipole
option. I currently have a Hy-Gain Explorer 14 with 40m kit.

I vote SteppIR.
--
Pete . .
ZS5ACT


I have had a three element SteppIR up for three years now.
It replaced a pair of Hy Gain monobanders (4 element 20 and 5 element
15).
Biggest difference I noticed was that my mast doesn't bend anymore !!
And my rotor has about 1/3 the work to do because the torque is so
much less.
And I have one feedline and no antenna switches, and only one
lightning arrestor.
And I now get 10 meters, and 17 meters. Wow what a great band 17
meters is.
Yes, I DO notice the pattern is not as sharp as the big monobanders,
no question about it. Probably a db or so less gain.

On 6 meters (I DO NOT have the extra fixed length element for 6
meters) I also have a 5 element M Squared, mounted about 6 feet above
the SteppIR. It absolutely blows away the SteppIR. So if you are
serious about 6, and don't want another yagi on the tower, give
serious consideration to the advice of Mike at SteppIR and get his 4th
element. I guess you said that, you are getting the 6 meter element.

But I miss that shiny aluminum up there. Sometimes the early morning
sun would reflect off all those Hy Gain elements...... Man, that was
a beautiful sight.

But 30 and 40 meters with the SteppIR? Seems like the only advantages
are the ones I mentioned above about the single feedline and
simplicity. I can't really see all that much advantage to being able
to rotate those single element radiators on those bands. I
experimented with learning EZNEC last week and I didn't see hardly any
directivity at all in my 40 meter inverted vee.

Rick K2XT

Sommer versus SteppIR
 

Rick wrote:

On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 20:51:25 +0200, "Pete"
wrote:



My next antenna is a 3 element SteppIR with the 6m option and 40/30m dipole
option. I currently have a Hy-Gain Explorer 14 with 40m kit.

I vote SteppIR.
--
Pete . .
ZS5ACT




I have had a three element SteppIR up for three years now.
It replaced a pair of Hy Gain monobanders (4 element 20 and 5 element
15).
Biggest difference I noticed was that my mast doesn't bend anymore !!
And my rotor has about 1/3 the work to do because the torque is so
much less.
And I have one feedline and no antenna switches, and only one
lightning arrestor.
And I now get 10 meters, and 17 meters. Wow what a great band 17
meters is.
Yes, I DO notice the pattern is not as sharp as the big monobanders,
no question about it. Probably a db or so less gain.

On 6 meters (I DO NOT have the extra fixed length element for 6
meters) I also have a 5 element M Squared, mounted about 6 feet above
the SteppIR. It absolutely blows away the SteppIR. So if you are
serious about 6, and don't want another yagi on the tower, give
serious consideration to the advice of Mike at SteppIR and get his 4th
element. I guess you said that, you are getting the 6 meter element.

But I miss that shiny aluminum up there. Sometimes the early morning
sun would reflect off all those Hy Gain elements...... Man, that was
a beautiful sight.

But 30 and 40 meters with the SteppIR? Seems like the only advantages
are the ones I mentioned above about the single feedline and
simplicity. I can't really see all that much advantage to being able
to rotate those single element radiators on those bands. I
experimented with learning EZNEC last week and I didn't see hardly any
directivity at all in my 40 meter inverted vee.

Rick K2XT


You could also get a second mortgage on the house and get the Steppir
Monstir and rotate 4 elements on 40M. It might mean a tower and rotor
upgrade but one can always dream.

Paul

--
Paul S. Hinman - VE6LDS
long West 113 deg 27 min 20 sec
lat North 53 deg 27 min 3 sec
Maidenhead Locator DO33gk

Sommer versus SteppIR
 

"Rick" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 20:51:25 +0200, "Pete"
wrote:

My next antenna is a 3 element SteppIR with the 6m option and 40/30m
dipole
option. I currently have a Hy-Gain Explorer 14 with 40m kit.

I vote SteppIR.
--
Pete . .
ZS5ACT


I have had a three element SteppIR up for three years now.
It replaced a pair of Hy Gain monobanders (4 element 20 and 5 element
15).
Biggest difference I noticed was that my mast doesn't bend anymore !!
And my rotor has about 1/3 the work to do because the torque is so
much less.
And I have one feedline and no antenna switches, and only one
lightning arrestor.
And I now get 10 meters, and 17 meters. Wow what a great band 17
meters is.
Yes, I DO notice the pattern is not as sharp as the big monobanders,
no question about it. Probably a db or so less gain.

On 6 meters (I DO NOT have the extra fixed length element for 6
meters) I also have a 5 element M Squared, mounted about 6 feet above
the SteppIR. It absolutely blows away the SteppIR. So if you are
serious about 6, and don't want another yagi on the tower, give
serious consideration to the advice of Mike at SteppIR and get his 4th
element. I guess you said that, you are getting the 6 meter element.

But I miss that shiny aluminum up there. Sometimes the early morning
sun would reflect off all those Hy Gain elements...... Man, that was
a beautiful sight.

But 30 and 40 meters with the SteppIR? Seems like the only advantages
are the ones I mentioned above about the single feedline and
simplicity. I can't really see all that much advantage to being able
to rotate those single element radiators on those bands. I
experimented with learning EZNEC last week and I didn't see hardly any
directivity at all in my 40 meter inverted vee.

Rick K2XT

Since reading Rick's post I should add that I have the two extra elements
for six and have had great success.
I cannot compare it to another antenna, but I just got a 6M QSL from New
Hampshire and I'm in Texas.

73
H., NQ5H

Sommer versus SteppIR
 

Thanks for the feedback on the 6m elements and the 4 ele SteppIR. I want to
go for the 3 ele. because the boom length is the same as my existing beam. I
could (just about) fit a MonstIR into the yard, but I don't want to get a
beam antenna that big. My neighbours have come to terms with the metal
monster, as-is. If it got even bigger, I think I would have a bit of
problem with them. I can always change it to the 4 element then the MonstIR
and they would hav it 'grow' on them.

My current beam has a rotatable dipole on 40. For me it is just neater and
more convenient than having an inverted-Vee.

Big advantage for me with the SteppIR is that it is mostly fibreglass tubing
so corrosion will be less of an issue.

40m through to 6m with one feeder! Luverly!

--
Pete . .
ZS5ACT


------ Reply Separator ------

"H. Adam Stevens, NQ5H" wrote in message
...

"Rick" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 20:51:25 +0200, "Pete"
wrote:

My next antenna is a 3 element SteppIR with the 6m option and 40/30m
dipole
option. I currently have a Hy-Gain Explorer 14 with 40m kit.

I vote SteppIR.
--
Pete . .
ZS5ACT


I have had a three element SteppIR up for three years now.
It replaced a pair of Hy Gain monobanders (4 element 20 and 5 element
15).
Biggest difference I noticed was that my mast doesn't bend anymore !!
And my rotor has about 1/3 the work to do because the torque is so
much less.
And I have one feedline and no antenna switches, and only one
lightning arrestor.
And I now get 10 meters, and 17 meters. Wow what a great band 17
meters is.
Yes, I DO notice the pattern is not as sharp as the big monobanders,
no question about it. Probably a db or so less gain.

On 6 meters (I DO NOT have the extra fixed length element for 6
meters) I also have a 5 element M Squared, mounted about 6 feet above
the SteppIR. It absolutely blows away the SteppIR. So if you are
serious about 6, and don't want another yagi on the tower, give
serious consideration to the advice of Mike at SteppIR and get his 4th
element. I guess you said that, you are getting the 6 meter element.

But I miss that shiny aluminum up there. Sometimes the early morning
sun would reflect off all those Hy Gain elements...... Man, that was
a beautiful sight.

But 30 and 40 meters with the SteppIR? Seems like the only advantages
are the ones I mentioned above about the single feedline and
simplicity. I can't really see all that much advantage to being able
to rotate those single element radiators on those bands. I
experimented with learning EZNEC last week and I didn't see hardly any
directivity at all in my 40 meter inverted vee.

Rick K2XT

Since reading Rick's post I should add that I have the two extra elements
for six and have had great success.
I cannot compare it to another antenna, but I just got a 6M QSL from New
Hampshire and I'm in Texas.

73
H., NQ5H

Sommer versus SteppIR
 

My ISP has just re-connected the usenet feed after cutting it on Friday. It
seems it happens each month? Go figure! Anyway:

Thanks for the feedback on the 6m elements and the 4 ele SteppIR. I want to
go for the 3 ele. with 6m passive ele. because the boom length is the same
as my existing beam. I could (just about) fit a MonstIR into the yard, but I
don't want to get a beam antenna that big. My neighbours have come to terms
with the metal monster, as-is. If it got even bigger, I think I would have a
bit of a problem with them. I can always change it to the 4 element and then
maybe the MonstIR so they would have the antenna 'grow' on them. My tower is
tilt-over and crank-up so antenna work is quite a bit easier than climbing
each time.

My current beam has a rotatable dipole on 40. For me it is just neater and
more convenient than having an inverted-Vee.

Another big advantage for me with the SteppIR is that it is mostly
fibreglass tubing so corrosion will be less of an issue.

40m through to 6m with one feeder! Luverly!

--
Pete . .
ZS5ACT
http://www.electronic-ideas.com/zs5act/

------ Reply Separator ------

"H. Adam Stevens, NQ5H" wrote in message
...

"Rick" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 20:51:25 +0200, "Pete"
wrote:

My next antenna is a 3 element SteppIR with the 6m option and 40/30m
dipole
option. I currently have a Hy-Gain Explorer 14 with 40m kit.

I vote SteppIR.
--
Pete . .
ZS5ACT


I have had a three element SteppIR up for three years now.
It replaced a pair of Hy Gain monobanders (4 element 20 and 5 element
15).
Biggest difference I noticed was that my mast doesn't bend anymore !!
And my rotor has about 1/3 the work to do because the torque is so
much less.
And I have one feedline and no antenna switches, and only one
lightning arrestor.
And I now get 10 meters, and 17 meters. Wow what a great band 17
meters is.
Yes, I DO notice the pattern is not as sharp as the big monobanders,
no question about it. Probably a db or so less gain.

On 6 meters (I DO NOT have the extra fixed length element for 6
meters) I also have a 5 element M Squared, mounted about 6 feet above
the SteppIR. It absolutely blows away the SteppIR. So if you are
serious about 6, and don't want another yagi on the tower, give
serious consideration to the advice of Mike at SteppIR and get his 4th
element. I guess you said that, you are getting the 6 meter element.

But I miss that shiny aluminum up there. Sometimes the early morning
sun would reflect off all those Hy Gain elements...... Man, that was
a beautiful sight.

But 30 and 40 meters with the SteppIR? Seems like the only advantages
are the ones I mentioned above about the single feedline and
simplicity. I can't really see all that much advantage to being able
to rotate those single element radiators on those bands. I
experimented with learning EZNEC last week and I didn't see hardly any
directivity at all in my 40 meter inverted vee.

Rick K2XT

Since reading Rick's post I should add that I have the two extra elements
for six and have had great success.
I cannot compare it to another antenna, but I just got a 6M QSL from New
Hampshire and I'm in Texas.

73
H., NQ5H

Sommer versus SteppIR
 

On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 20:46:19 +0200, "Pete"
wrote:

I could (just about) fit a MonstIR into the yard, but I
don't want to get a beam antenna that big. My neighbours have come to terms
with the metal monster, as-is. If it got even bigger, I think I would have a
bit of a problem with them.

The solution to that problem is to get a much taller tower so the
antenna is further away and therefore looks smaller. ; )

S.T.W.

Sommer versus SteppIR
 

Pete

Before it was a four/six SteppIR, it was a three/five. I am one of the early
customers and upgraded the beam when I finally got around to the tower.
These guys make a great product and they support it aggressively. No
quibbling about warranty coverage BS, you talk to the founders.
A great product.
73
H.
NQ5H

PS
If you have high winds, and the antenna loses an element, and you had the
copper tape retracted, it's $20 for a new fiberglass tube.


"Pete" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the feedback on the 6m elements and the 4 ele SteppIR. I want
to go for the 3 ele. because the boom length is the same as my existing
beam. I could (just about) fit a MonstIR into the yard, but I don't want
to get a beam antenna that big. My neighbours have come to terms with the
metal monster, as-is. If it got even bigger, I think I would have a bit of
problem with them. I can always change it to the 4 element then the
MonstIR and they would hav it 'grow' on them.

My current beam has a rotatable dipole on 40. For me it is just neater and
more convenient than having an inverted-Vee.

Big advantage for me with the SteppIR is that it is mostly fibreglass
tubing so corrosion will be less of an issue.

40m through to 6m with one feeder! Luverly!

--
Pete . .
ZS5ACT


------ Reply Separator ------

"H. Adam Stevens, NQ5H" wrote in message
...

"Rick" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 20:51:25 +0200, "Pete"
wrote:

My next antenna is a 3 element SteppIR with the 6m option and 40/30m
dipole
option. I currently have a Hy-Gain Explorer 14 with 40m kit.

I vote SteppIR.
--
Pete . .
ZS5ACT


I have had a three element SteppIR up for three years now.
It replaced a pair of Hy Gain monobanders (4 element 20 and 5 element
15).
Biggest difference I noticed was that my mast doesn't bend anymore !!
And my rotor has about 1/3 the work to do because the torque is so
much less.
And I have one feedline and no antenna switches, and only one
lightning arrestor.
And I now get 10 meters, and 17 meters. Wow what a great band 17
meters is.
Yes, I DO notice the pattern is not as sharp as the big monobanders,
no question about it. Probably a db or so less gain.

On 6 meters (I DO NOT have the extra fixed length element for 6
meters) I also have a 5 element M Squared, mounted about 6 feet above
the SteppIR. It absolutely blows away the SteppIR. So if you are
serious about 6, and don't want another yagi on the tower, give
serious consideration to the advice of Mike at SteppIR and get his 4th
element. I guess you said that, you are getting the 6 meter element.

But I miss that shiny aluminum up there. Sometimes the early morning
sun would reflect off all those Hy Gain elements...... Man, that was
a beautiful sight.

But 30 and 40 meters with the SteppIR? Seems like the only advantages
are the ones I mentioned above about the single feedline and
simplicity. I can't really see all that much advantage to being able
to rotate those single element radiators on those bands. I
experimented with learning EZNEC last week and I didn't see hardly any
directivity at all in my 40 meter inverted vee.

Rick K2XT

Since reading Rick's post I should add that I have the two extra elements
for six and have had great success.
I cannot compare it to another antenna, but I just got a 6M QSL from New
Hampshire and I'm in Texas.

73
H., NQ5H

Sommer versus SteppIR
 

"Sum Ting Wong" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 20:46:19 +0200, "Pete"
wrote:

I could (just about) fit a MonstIR into the yard, but I
don't want to get a beam antenna that big. My neighbours have come to
terms
with the metal monster, as-is. If it got even bigger, I think I would have
a
bit of a problem with them.

The solution to that problem is to get a much taller tower so the
antenna is further away and therefore looks smaller. ; )

S.T.W.


Now that is Zen.
An infinitely tall tower is best.

;^)