New way of attaching PL-259s
 

The only drawback I can see would be if the coax were hanging down and
swinging in the breeze - the solder could develop metal fatigue over
time. On the other hand, the coax should be strain-relieved anyway,
else it's just holding on by the four holes and the center conductor.
Not much better, if at all.
W7TI

It's not holding by four holes, but by being screwed by the jacket.
Screwing the connector body onto the coax jacket provides weather proofing and
mechanical "connection" between the cable and connector. What you did is to
expose the watersucking braid to rain and braid will eventually break off at
the junction of braid.solder/braid (tiny hair wires). If you never use the coax
outside and don't rock it, you might be OK.
But can you picture "horrible" impedance jump because of your action? Cecil
will never forgive you!
Kinda we were all stupid for all those years doing it the other way? :-)

Yuri

1) It NEEDS weatherproofing.

2) It produces an impedance discontinuity that is larger than that
produced by correct assembly. It will be more noticeable on upper HF and
VHF than 160 or 80 meters.

3) There is no strain relief.

4) If it meets your needs then only weatherproof it.

DD, W1MCE

W7TI wrote:

Maybe this has been done before, but it's the first time I've heard of
this method.

While struggling as usual to attach some PL-259s to some Belden 9913F,
it occurred to me that the four little holes for soldering the braid
were not really needed. Instead, I soldered the braid directly to the
connector at the point where it entered. Picture at:

www.dslextreme.com/users/teeaye/coax.jpg

I soldered it all around the connector, although I suppose only one
point would be ok.

The braid is exposed so it would need weatherproofing for outside use.
But all in all, it seems to me to be far superior to trying to solder
through the little holes. It's much stronger and you can easily see if
you have a good connection.

Also, only a small-wattage iron is needed. I used a 40-watt Weller,
which is not hot enough doing it the normal way. There is less metal
acting as a heat sink.

Another advantage is you can trim the braid much farther back from where
you strip the center conductor. This helps reduce the chances of a
stray strand causing a short.

The only drawback I can see would be if the coax were hanging down and
swinging in the breeze - the solder could develop metal fatigue over
time. On the other hand, the coax should be strain-relieved anyway,
else it's just holding on by the four holes and the center conductor.
Not much better, if at all.

Comments?

And whats so wrong about installing the connector the way it was designed?

I've put on hundreds, and have never had trouble soldering the braid unto a
quality connector.

Whats the problem I'm missing here..?
73 de Mike, WB9B

W7TI wrote in message
...
On 22 Jul 2003 23:20:36 GMT, oSaddam (Yuri Blanarovich)
wrote:

It's not holding by four holes, but by being screwed by the jacket.
Screwing the connector body onto the coax jacket provides weather
proofing and
mechanical "connection" between the cable and connector. What you did is
to
expose the watersucking braid to rain and braid will eventually break off
at
the junction of braid.solder/braid (tiny hair wires). If you never use
the coax
outside and don't rock it, you might be OK.
snip

I agree, the "watersucking" braid needs to be waterproofed if used
outdoors.


But can you picture "horrible" impedance jump because of your action?
Cecil
will never forgive you!
snip

Good point. I will do a test on 144 MHz and see if there is a
measurable difference. The diameter of the connector is larger than the
diameter of the braid, but only for about 1/2 inch or so. At microwave
freqs that would be a no-no, but then who uses PL-259s for microwave?

I'll report back what I find.

--
73, Bill W7TI



I have NEVER soldered those damned holes. I remove the outer cover and
"pick" the braid all round. Then I remove the inner cover (center
conductor)and tin it. Then I fold the braid back over the remaining out
cover and then
screw on the adaptor (if any) onto the braid. Then I tighten the adaptor
onto
the body of the connector and tighten with pliers. Then I solder the center
wire
as usual. If there is any braid left I trim it off with a knife. This
compares with
the "old" way and does not cause any more absorption--one ought to moisture-
proof one's outside connectors anyway. Actually, in my experience,
soldering
those stupid holes causes trouble of its own. With the braid soldered, the
braid
suspends the feedline anyway, right? This means that the braid and the
center
pin are in the same "room", as it were. All it takes is one eensy weensy
wire of
that braid to get down into the center and short out the whole thing. By
folding
the braid back AWAY under the adaptor (or under the rear of the PL-259 body)
it isolates the assembly. Besides, it is easier to unsolder a connector and
use it
again. It does work. and I have been doing it for over 30 years.


73

Jerry
K4KWH

Mike:

Like you, I used to ask that. Then I had a couple of clumsy technicians
assigned to me. (Fortunately, not at the same time0.) And, I really
believe they were trying, but they could NOT assemble ANY connector
properly, even after dozens of tries. One could even mess up screw on Type
F. Some people are just not competent with their hands. An illustration in
the other direction: How many people can paint like Michelangelo?

--
Crazy George
Remove NO and SPAM from return address
"MIKEHAACK" wrote in message
...

And whats so wrong about installing the connector the way it was
designed?

I've put on hundreds, and have never had trouble soldering the braid unto
a
quality connector.

Whats the problem I'm missing here..?
73 de Mike, WB9B

W7TI:

To do it right you gotta spend a little money and get the right tools.

To do it "right" you gotta buy a great big 200 watt soldering iron and pour
the heat to it
for a only a short time. The coax braid is then soldered all around, not
just tacked down
with a little surface solder at those four little holes.

Do it but don't skimp on tools, "Just do it right!"

--
Peter K1PO
Indialantic By-the-Sea, FL.


"W7TI" wrote in message
...
Maybe this has been done before, but it's the first time I've heard of
this method.

While struggling as usual to attach some PL-259s to some Belden 9913F,
it occurred to me that the four little holes for soldering the braid
were not really needed. Instead, I soldered the braid directly to the
connector at the point where it entered. Picture at:

www.dslextreme.com/users/teeaye/coax.jpg

I soldered it all around the connector, although I suppose only one
point would be ok.

The braid is exposed so it would need weatherproofing for outside use.
But all in all, it seems to me to be far superior to trying to solder
through the little holes. It's much stronger and you can easily see if
you have a good connection.

Also, only a small-wattage iron is needed. I used a 40-watt Weller,
which is not hot enough doing it the normal way. There is less metal
acting as a heat sink.

Another advantage is you can trim the braid much farther back from where
you strip the center conductor. This helps reduce the chances of a
stray strand causing a short.

The only drawback I can see would be if the coax were hanging down and
swinging in the breeze - the solder could develop metal fatigue over
time. On the other hand, the coax should be strain-relieved anyway,
else it's just holding on by the four holes and the center conductor.
Not much better, if at all.

Comments?

--
73, Bill W7TI

And whats so wrong about installing the connector the way it was designed?

I've put on hundreds, and have never had trouble soldering the braid unto a
quality connector.

Whats the problem I'm missing here..?
73 de Mike, WB9B

I suspect it might be the word "quality", or the absence thereof.

The high-quality silver-plated PL-259s seem to solder easily enough as
long as you have a high-enough-wattage iron or gun. A small
fixed-wattage, non-temperature-controlled soldering pen probably won't
do the job.

The cheap nickel-plated ones can be a real hassle - the solder doesn't
wet the nickel at all readily, and one can easily end up with a "cold"
solder joint.

I've read recommendations that if you're going to solder a
nickel-plated PL-259, you should take a file and rough off the nickel
in the area around and in the holes, and on the adapter inside (if
present). The brass under the nickel will take the solder somewhat
more readily.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

Gee, and I bet you tin the conductor and braid
before starting assembly. What a concept, get the
solder in place so minimal heat and time are
required for a good connection. Who's a thunk!

--
73 es cul

wb3fup
a Salty Bear

"MIKEHAACK" wrote in message
...

And whats so wrong about installing the
connector the way it was designed?

I've put on hundreds, and have never had trouble
soldering the braid unto a
quality connector.

Whats the problem I'm missing here..?
73 de Mike, WB9B

Dave Platt wrote:

Whats the problem I'm missing here..?
73 de Mike, WB9B

I suspect it might be the word "quality", or the absence thereof.

Yep - something about "doing it right", as Peter says also. Not just to
ape the professionals, but because the "right" way is the one that's
most reliable and won't let you down.

A lot of my ham training was in VHF portable contesting, where you and
your friends are out on a hill for a weekend with whatever you brought
with you... and nothing more. It quickly taught me that a little
"quality" in the right places goes a long way toward making the whole
ham radio experience much more enjoyable.

In that particular case, a lot of the spoilt weekends were due to
connectors, of which there are dozens in a complex station. "Quality"
involved assembling connectors properly at home, so they wouldn't fail
up there on the hill - and after we learned that lesson, it all became a
lot more fun.

But there's something else as well, beyond all the practical reasons: I
actually *enjoy* doing ham radio well, with quality.

Perhaps more of us should come out and say that...


Anyhow, back to the PL-259s:

The high-quality silver-plated PL-259s seem to solder easily enough as
long as you have a high-enough-wattage iron or gun. A small
fixed-wattage, non-temperature-controlled soldering pen probably won't
do the job.

That's true, but DON'T BUY A 200W IRON - it's a waste of money!

* Buy a cheap hot-air gun from the DIY store.

* Use it to pre-heat the connector body until your regular little iron
can easily melt solder on the connector body (not just a blob in the
hole, but flowing easily onto the body).

* Take the hot air away, and quickly solder the connector with your
regular iron.

It's quick, easy, low-cost, you get a "free" hot-air gun... and it
produces a top-quality job.

I now use this method for all kinds of heavy-duty soldering, with
nothing larger than a Weller TCP iron.


A good point about removing nickel plating first:

I've read recommendations that if you're going to solder a
nickel-plated PL-259, you should take a file and rough off the nickel
in the area around and in the holes, and on the adapter inside (if
present). The brass under the nickel will take the solder somewhat
more readily.

*Inside* the holes is the important place to remove the nickel. Ream it
out with a drill, or the pointy end of a triangular file.


--
73 from Ian G3SEK 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book'
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek

Crazy George wrote:
Mike:

Like you, I used to ask that. Then I had a couple of clumsy technicians
assigned to me. (Fortunately, not at the same time0.) And, I really
believe they were trying, but they could NOT assemble ANY connector
properly, even after dozens of tries. One could even mess up screw on Type
F. Some people are just not competent with their hands. An illustration in
the other direction: How many people can paint like Michelangelo?

True - but then we don't make redecorating our livelihood...
--
Chris Cox, N0UK/G4JEC NIC Handle: CC345
UnitedHealthGroup, Inc., MN10-W116, UNIX Services & Consulting
6300 Olson Memorial Highway, Golden Valley, MN 55427
email: (work) (home)

I use the holes because I think it makes a better connection especially if the
outer cover is properly "screwed" into the connector.

I found an old 100-W soldering iron, not gun, at a yard sale for 50 cents. I
machined (filed) the tip so that it was no longer pointed but cylindrical so
that the tip would just enter one of the four holes.

I hold the hot tip in the holes until the solder flows and "tins" the braid and
the connector.

If needed I can use some non corrosive flux to make me think I did a better
job.

73 de Jack, K9CUN

You guys might want to try crimp style alternatives to the PL259. I have
used them with no problems. They might actually have an advantage when
connecting to coax that uses aluminum fail and not much braid.

Tam/WB2TT
"W7TI" wrote in message
...
Maybe this has been done before, but it's the first time I've heard of
this method.

While struggling as usual to attach some PL-259s to some Belden 9913F,
it occurred to me that the four little holes for soldering the braid
were not really needed. Instead, I soldered the braid directly to the
connector at the point where it entered. Picture at:

www.dslextreme.com/users/teeaye/coax.jpg

I soldered it all around the connector, although I suppose only one
point would be ok.

The braid is exposed so it would need weatherproofing for outside use.
But all in all, it seems to me to be far superior to trying to solder
through the little holes. It's much stronger and you can easily see if
you have a good connection.

Also, only a small-wattage iron is needed. I used a 40-watt Weller,
which is not hot enough doing it the normal way. There is less metal
acting as a heat sink.

Another advantage is you can trim the braid much farther back from where
you strip the center conductor. This helps reduce the chances of a
stray strand causing a short.

The only drawback I can see would be if the coax were hanging down and
swinging in the breeze - the solder could develop metal fatigue over
time. On the other hand, the coax should be strain-relieved anyway,
else it's just holding on by the four holes and the center conductor.
Not much better, if at all.

Comments?

--
73, Bill W7TI

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 05:36:07 -0000, Dave Platt hath writ:

I've read recommendations that if you're going to solder a
nickel-plated PL-259, you should take a file and rough off the nickel
in the area around and in the holes, and on the adapter inside (if
present). The brass under the nickel will take the solder somewhat
more readily.

Yep. I use a half-round to 'grind' the rims of the holes down to base
metal before assy. Then, using a WAY HOT, HIGH WATT iron -- not a
gun -- I get onto and off of each hole with solder as quickly as
possible -- making sure I `fill` each hole completely.

But, as another poster mentioned: A well-done PL-259 install always
makes for a Very Difficult reclamation. HI!HI!

73
Jonesy
--
| Marvin L Jones | jonz | W3DHJ | OS/2
| Gunnison, Colorado | @ | Jonesy | linux __
| 7,703' -- 2,345m | config.com | DM68mn SK

I have always tinned the braid as the third step
in the assembly process. Have I been doing things
wrong for 40 years.

--
73 es cul

wb3fup
a Salty Bear

"W7TI" wrote in message
...
On 23 Jul 2003 16:43:24 GMT, Allodoxaphobia

wrote:

I get onto and off of each hole with solder as
quickly as
possible -- making sure I `fill` each hole
completely.


__________________________________________________
_______

I've done it that way for years, too. The only
problem is not knowing
if you have a good bond to the braid, being
buried under the "pool" of
solder and therefore invisible.

I guess that's why the original designer gave
you four chances at it.
:-)

--
73, Bill W7TI

I've never soldered the outer braid either.

Folding it back and tightening down the connector
over it has worked well for me for over 20 years.

This even works well when using reducers for
58, 58 & 8X. Fold the braid back over the reducer,
tighten, solder the center pin, and your done.

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:42:26 -0700, W7TI wrote:



Also, only a small-wattage iron is needed. I used a 40-watt Weller,
which is not hot enough doing it the normal way. There is less metal
acting as a heat sink.

Get a 175 watt Weller, then you'll be able to solder it through the
four holes in just a few seconds, like it's designed for.

Bob
k5qwg

W7TI wrote:
What is RG-400? Did a google search and found one reference but no
details.

Got a Wirebook III from The Wireman? RG-400 is a 0.2" 50 ohm teflon coax
with a 1900V RF tolerance. It's all I ever use anymore inside the hamshack.
Great for four foot cables and baluns.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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Bill,
It really is better if a connector is installed as it's
designed to be installed. It may not be the easiest way of
doing it, but it's almost always the best way.
Having said that, I've found that using a propane torch
is the easiest way I've found to put on a PL-259. Takes a
little practice (and don't use MAP gas!), but not a problem
even in high winds. It helps to pre-tin any adaptors, etc.
'Doc

You could also try LMR240. Loss at 50MHz is only 0.1db/100 more than 213,
but it is 0.24 diameter. Works with RG6/59 reducer. About $45/100 feeet. I
have some connectors with shield soldered, some not. There is also a LMR240
Flex, which is really nice for patch cords, but costs a little more. I have
put a KW through both of them at HF.

Tam/WB2TT
"W7TI" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 19:41:56 -0500, W5DXP
wrote:

Got a Wirebook III from The Wireman? RG-400 is a 0.2" 50 ohm teflon coax
with a 1900V RF tolerance. It's all I ever use anymore inside the
hamshack.
Great for four foot cables and baluns.

__________________________________________________ _______

Sounds like nice stuff, but at $1.62 per foot... Hmmmmmm.

--
73, bILL w7ti

W7TI wrote:
IMO, a poor design to begin with.

There is the alternative of the pressure-sleeve PL-259, which fits
regular RG213 or RG58, and you assemble it by screwing down a nut. Only
the centre conductor requires soldering.

"This is not your father's MIL cable clamp" as used on so many BNCs and
Ns of US origin, which tears off the braid and pulls out easily. This
one works - the whole cable will tear apart before it pulls out the rear
of the plug. Pressure-sleeve BNCs and Ns are so much better, I won't
ever buy the old MIL type any more.

More recently, PL-259s and cable jacks have become available with the
pressure-sleeve clamp too, mainly through the Multicomp brand sold by
Farnell in Britain. Try www.farnell.com/uk and search for order codes
724804, 724816 as examples. The product line includes plugs and cable
jacks for RG213 and for RG58 - that's two separate sizes (no adaptor).

These connectors are more expensive, but they are the only ones that
avoid the problems of heavy-duty soldering outdoors. For that situation
they can be an absolute godsend.

(Well, there's also crimp, but crimp is one of those techniques that's
useless unless it's done perfectly. The price of the correct tool to
make a full hex crimp around RG213 will buy a lot of pressure-sleeve
connectors. Also, the pressure-sleeve clamp is waterproof in its own
right, which the crimp is not.)

Last time I posted this information, about two years ago, there was a
lot of interest from the USA, so here's what I know.

Availability in the USA used to be poor... and may still be. The
pressure sleeve clamp was invented by the British company Greenpar
AFAIK, but was also licensed to G-E who used to make a PL-259 and may
still do so - so G-E is one place to look.

Otherwise you have to follow the company takeover trail, to see where
the technology went. Greenpar was bought by M/A-com and the idea seemed
to disappear; then the M/A-com connector line was bought in turn by AMP
and by Tyco.

The Greenpar name has recently resurfaced as a Tyco brand, and quite
possibly the connectors have too. Farnell now stock a "Tyco Greenpar"
PL-259 which is probably pressure-sleeve, and obviously will be
available in the USA (but even more expensive than the Multicomp
connector). Another possible lead in the USA is Newark, which is owned
by Farnell and is now beginning to stock some Multicomp parts.


--
73 from Ian G3SEK 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book'
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek

I use an 80 watt Weller iron. It holds far more
heat (not temperature) than my 250 watt soldering
gun. Because of the heat capacity of the iron,
the holes solder very quickly and easily. It is not
necessary to pre-tin the braid.

A 100 watt iron might be a little better, but they
are harder to find. Some hardware stores carry
the 80w Weller.

Tom - N1MM
Check out the N1MM Free Contest Logger at:
http://www.n1mm.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/N1MMLogger/
"W7TI" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 19:33:18 -0500, Bob Miller
wrote:

Get a 175 watt Weller, then you'll be able to solder it through the
four holes in just a few seconds, like it's designed for.

Bob
k5qwg

__________________________________________________ _______

I have a 250 watt Weller (about 45 years old now) and soldering through
the four holes is a pain, as well as being uncertain. Soldering the
braid where it enters the connector can be done with a 40 watt iron,
helping avoid damage to the coax.

Give it a try, you might like it.

--
73, Bill W7TI

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:42:26 -0700, W7TI wrote:

Maybe this has been done before, but it's the first time I've heard of
this method.

I've used it here with no problems. Outside I use N connectors for
nearly all connections.

While struggling as usual to attach some PL-259s to some Belden 9913F,
it occurred to me that the four little holes for soldering the braid

For the purist connecting there helps keep the impedance correct, BUT
as you took the braid inside I would expect about the same.

Contrary to what some have said, I've not been able to see any bump
using a Time Domain Reflectometer (TDR) with that approach.

were not really needed. Instead, I soldered the braid directly to the
connector at the point where it entered. Picture at:

www.dslextreme.com/users/teeaye/coax.jpg

I soldered it all around the connector, although I suppose only one
point would be ok.

All around is better


The braid is exposed so it would need weatherproofing for outside use.
But all in all, it seems to me to be far superior to trying to solder
through the little holes. It's much stronger and you can easily see if
you have a good connection.

When it comes to weather proofing, PL259s are not weather proof. You
just make it a little easier for the water to get in.

I use "flooded" heat shrink tube over the connector and out onto the
coax by about an inch and a half. I purchase it in 4' lengths at the
local electrical supply house. The flooding material is pretty much
the same stuff used in hot glue guns.

You have to remember to start shrinking the tube in the middle and
work out to the ends


Also, only a small-wattage iron is needed. I used a 40-watt Weller,
which is not hot enough doing it the normal way. There is less metal
acting as a heat sink.


Another advantage is you can trim the braid much farther back from where

Here you don't want to trim it back much father than the normal
installation.

I cut and trim to length, then tin the braid. If need be (and it
usually is) I file down the solder so the braid easily fits all the
way in to the proper position and I don't have to worry about
"whiskers".

you strip the center conductor. This helps reduce the chances of a
stray strand causing a short.

The only drawback I can see would be if the coax were hanging down and
swinging in the breeze - the solder could develop metal fatigue over
time. On the other hand, the coax should be strain-relieved anyway,
else it's just holding on by the four holes and the center conductor.

Yes, Yes, and no.
Yes, the solder will eventually fatigue.
Yes the connection should be supported, or strain relieved.
No, those little solder spots are an electrical connection, not to
support the cable.

Most of what little strength a pl259 has, comes from the jacket being
screwed down into the connector.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)
Not much better, if at all.

Comments?

Another thing that you can be sure of. Rarely does it matter.
"Nisse" wrote in message
...
(the only thing You can be sure of, it is not 50
ohm
characteristic impedance)...

Mark:

[snip]
Myself, I think using a high wattage gun is one of the most important
parts. It's hard to get them hot enough with a small 30-50?? watt gun.
To properly solder, you have to get the shell itself hot enough to
melt the solder. Otherwise, you have a cold joint. But, on the other
hand, you also don't want to sit there for 8 min trying to get it hot
enough, when in the meantime the coax melts into a blob. So you have
to get in and out fast. A hot gun is the only way. I've been using a
150 w for quite a few years and it seems big enough unless you are
outside in the wind.
[snip]

Agreed!

If you are just getting a new iron for coax connector work, go for a big
fat 200 Watt job. It not only gets the temperature correct for perfect
joints,
but because it is big it can supply a lot of heat quickly without
temperature
drop and that's the secret to great PL259 connector soldering jobs.

The 200 Watts ensures that you can do connectors quickly and
with quality even out doors on field day with the wind blowing.

Dont' fuss, don't worry...

Just do it right!

A Big Fat 200 Watt iron makes soldering coax to PL259's dead simple!

--
Peter K1PO
Indialantic By-the-Sea, FL.

Personally, I've had the best luck with a 100-200 watt iron for soldering the
shell. The iron, assuming it has a heavy tip, has enough heat capacity to do
the job quickly. With a soldering gun, even a 150 or 200 watt gun, the tip
just doesn't have enough thermal capacity to do the job as quickly. But,
whatever works is fine.

73s,

Evan

www.dslextreme.com/users/teeaye/coax.jpg

Terrible picture. it looks like a cold joint.

W7TI wrote:

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:48:46 +0200, Nisse wrote:

This is rather amusing...
A debate how to attach PL-259.... Would'nt it be better if we finally
got rid of those aniquities (the only thing You can be sure of, it is not 50
ohm
characteristic impedance)...

__________________________________________________ _______

Getting rid of a connector which is standard all over the world?

Now *that's* amusing. :-)

BNC or N are also standards all over the world. So is C, however it is a bit
tricky to find.
PL-259 is hardly useable above 50MHz, and totally worthless above approx. 300MHz
(why PL-259 is the standard for 144MHz rigs is definitively beyond my
undersanding- for
commercial 80MHz LMR, BNC or C is standard, depending on power output).




--
73, Bill W7TI

W7TI wrote:
On 24 Jul 2003 21:19:45 -0700, (John Shrove)
wrote:

www.dslextreme.com/users/teeaye/coax.jpg

Terrible picture. it looks like a cold joint.

__________________________________________________ _______

Terrible interpretation. Joint is perfect.

It might be, but the picture is still pretty poor... makes it hard to tell
just how good the solder job really is.

Dan