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Timewave ANC-4 question!
Dave wrote:
I simply didn't want to deal with any 'VSWR' issues from a dipole configuration. So, a simple end fed wire meets my needs. the way I understand it, the sense antenna is supposed to pick up the noise better than the signal you wish to receive. So VSWR most likely would'nt matter. Sun Tzu wrote: How did you manage to find this arrangement? trial & error? by accident? I keep trying different things but maybe I am "thinking" too much, maybe its simpler than what I am trying to do. Dave wrote: Mine seems to work fine with about 25 feet of wire simply run out the window and about 4 inches above the ground along the foundation of the house. [End fed random wire approach] /s/ DD Sun Tzu wrote: I use an Timewave ANC-4 to reduce noise on the low bands at my location. On 40 & 160 meters I can reduce the noise almost to S1, but on 75 meters I can only reduce it to S4-5. I use a noise sense antenna which is a dipole 4ft on each side about 4 inches off the ground and parallel to the power and telephone lines. Anyone have one of these units and having any ideas I might try to reduce 75 meters to a lower S-meter reading? All my low band antennas are verticals. Stan AH6JR |
Timewave ANC-4 question!
"Sun Tzu" schreef in bericht ... Jan Simons PA0SIM wrote: Reading the schematics it is possible that the ANC-4 does not fully cover the 360 degrees phase shift, just like the MFJ-1025. But it is also possible that you experience more than one noise source on 75 mtrs. A noise canceller (with two inputs/antennas) can cancel only one noise source. I have written about noise cancelling on my site, e.g.: http://www.pa0sim.nl/Phaser%2080%20-%2010%20meters.htm May be it can help. 73 es gl de Jan PA0SIM Nice website, have you considered modifying the existing units (MFJ & ANC) to do what you have shown? Your idea would make either of these 2 units much better. By the way, I took the sense antenna which is a short dipole and I made one leg vertical and the other horizontal. Now I have almost no noise on 75 meters. I haqve been playing around with this for awhile and it was either all vertical or all horizontal. Now with this configuration the weak signals can be heard. Stan AH6JR Hi Stan, I have considered it, but sometimes it is easier and better to start fresh. First question is always: what phaser/noise canceller do you really want? What do you expect from it? Looking at the design of the MFJ-1025, it would take to much mods to realize my needs. When one of the antennas doesnīt hear the noise source, you donīt need a phaser. But of course that antenna still has to hear your wanted signals. Using a small loop antenna it is sometimes possible to null the noise source. I think playing with a short dipole, as you did, is the same as nulling with small loops. 73 de Jan PA0SIM |
Timewave ANC-4 question!
Jan Simons PA0SIM wrote:
"Sun Tzu" schreef in bericht ... Jan Simons PA0SIM wrote: Reading the schematics it is possible that the ANC-4 does not fully cover the 360 degrees phase shift, just like the MFJ-1025. But it is also possible that you experience more than one noise source on 75 mtrs. A noise canceller (with two inputs/antennas) can cancel only one noise source. I have written about noise cancelling on my site, e.g.: http://www.pa0sim.nl/Phaser%2080%20-%2010%20meters.htm May be it can help. 73 es gl de Jan PA0SIM Nice website, have you considered modifying the existing units (MFJ & ANC) to do what you have shown? Your idea would make either of these 2 units much better. By the way, I took the sense antenna which is a short dipole and I made one leg vertical and the other horizontal. Now I have almost no noise on 75 meters. I haqve been playing around with this for awhile and it was either all vertical or all horizontal. Now with this configuration the weak signals can be heard. Stan AH6JR Hi Stan, I have considered it, but sometimes it is easier and better to start fresh. First question is always: what phaser/noise canceller do you really want? What do you expect from it? Looking at the design of the MFJ-1025, it would take to much mods to realize my needs. When one of the antennas doesnīt hear the noise source, you donīt need a phaser. But of course that antenna still has to hear your wanted signals. Using a small loop antenna it is sometimes possible to null the noise source. I think playing with a short dipole, as you did, is the same as nulling with small loops. 73 de Jan PA0SIM I have the ANC-4 which works well. This new sense antenna is really good, as I can hear signals down to S-2 on 75 meters. I guess if I had to do it I would prefer to modify the ANC-4 as its a quality unit, not perfect but it is built well. If you would have any ideas as to modifying the ANC-4 I would'nt mind working with you on this project. But I will leave that one up to you. Hopefully I will be able to hear you in the contest this weekend on 75 meters! Good Luck in the contest my friend! |
Timewave ANC-4 question!
"Sun Tzu" schreef in bericht news:ruCdnermL6SEDd_YnZ2dnUVZ_uydnZ2d@hawaiiantel. net... Jan Simons PA0SIM wrote: "Sun Tzu" schreef in bericht ... Jan Simons PA0SIM wrote: Reading the schematics it is possible that the ANC-4 does not fully cover the 360 degrees phase shift, just like the MFJ-1025. But it is also possible that you experience more than one noise source on 75 mtrs. A noise canceller (with two inputs/antennas) can cancel only one noise source. I have written about noise cancelling on my site, e.g.: http://www.pa0sim.nl/Phaser%2080%20-%2010%20meters.htm May be it can help. 73 es gl de Jan PA0SIM Nice website, have you considered modifying the existing units (MFJ & ANC) to do what you have shown? Your idea would make either of these 2 units much better. By the way, I took the sense antenna which is a short dipole and I made one leg vertical and the other horizontal. Now I have almost no noise on 75 meters. I haqve been playing around with this for awhile and it was either all vertical or all horizontal. Now with this configuration the weak signals can be heard. Stan AH6JR Hi Stan, I have considered it, but sometimes it is easier and better to start fresh. First question is always: what phaser/noise canceller do you really want? What do you expect from it? Looking at the design of the MFJ-1025, it would take to much mods to realize my needs. When one of the antennas doesnt hear the noise source, you dont need a phaser. But of course that antenna still has to hear your wanted signals. Using a small loop antenna it is sometimes possible to null the noise source. I think playing with a short dipole, as you did, is the same as nulling with small loops. 73 de Jan PA0SIM I have the ANC-4 which works well. This new sense antenna is really good, as I can hear signals down to S-2 on 75 meters. I guess if I had to do it I would prefer to modify the ANC-4 as its a quality unit, not perfect but it is built well. If you would have any ideas as to modifying the ANC-4 I would'nt mind working with you on this project. But I will leave that one up to you. Hopefully I will be able to hear you in the contest this weekend on 75 meters! Good Luck in the contest my friend! Sri, I prefer my Digital Signal Processing route with the two Elecraft K2 receivers. DSP makes an ideal phaser. So no need here for a "better" analog one. And DSP gives me a lot more tricks to reduce interference and noise. 73 es gl de Jan PA0SIM |
Timewave ANC-4 question!
I guess its residential on 1/3 of an acre lots. Not real tight. But the utilities are above ground and that probably doesnt help. not sure if anyone realizes this but i've noticed that the adj controls can sometimes be very very sensitive sometimes i've found that a hair kills the noise and if you blinked at that moment you missed it dunno maybe it's just me maybe you have a bad or dirty control? OR as Jan wrote previously the variable resistor is not linear and the abrupt change you see it due to the variable resistor. the control is good, it is on all the units prob a non linear pot(resistor) linear taper? not audio taper or what ever but they all seem to work like that ;) on certain kinds of noise it sure works well ml |
Timewave ANC-4 question!
"ml" schreef in bericht ... I guess its residential on 1/3 of an acre lots. Not real tight. But the utilities are above ground and that probably doesnt help. not sure if anyone realizes this but i've noticed that the adj controls can sometimes be very very sensitive sometimes i've found that a hair kills the noise and if you blinked at that moment you missed it dunno maybe it's just me maybe you have a bad or dirty control? OR as Jan wrote previously the variable resistor is not linear and the abrupt change you see it due to the variable resistor. the control is good, it is on all the units prob a non linear pot(resistor) linear taper? not audio taper or what ever but they all seem to work like that ;) on certain kinds of noise it sure works well The phase control variable resistor is linear, but the relation between phase difference and resistor value is very non linear! This makes it difficult to tune to the exact phase for deep noise cancelling. See: http://www.pa0sim.nl/Phaser%2080%20-%2010%20meters.htm That is why I use phase (and gain) control spreading. 73 Jan PA0SIM |
Timewave ANC-4 question!
Jan Simons PA0SIM wrote:
"Sun Tzu" schreef in bericht news:ruCdnermL6SEDd_YnZ2dnUVZ_uydnZ2d@hawaiiantel. net... Jan Simons PA0SIM wrote: "Sun Tzu" schreef in bericht ... Jan Simons PA0SIM wrote: Reading the schematics it is possible that the ANC-4 does not fully cover the 360 degrees phase shift, just like the MFJ-1025. But it is also possible that you experience more than one noise source on 75 mtrs. A noise canceller (with two inputs/antennas) can cancel only one noise source. I have written about noise cancelling on my site, e.g.: http://www.pa0sim.nl/Phaser%2080%20-%2010%20meters.htm May be it can help. 73 es gl de Jan PA0SIM Nice website, have you considered modifying the existing units (MFJ & ANC) to do what you have shown? Your idea would make either of these 2 units much better. By the way, I took the sense antenna which is a short dipole and I made one leg vertical and the other horizontal. Now I have almost no noise on 75 meters. I haqve been playing around with this for awhile and it was either all vertical or all horizontal. Now with this configuration the weak signals can be heard. Stan AH6JR Hi Stan, I have considered it, but sometimes it is easier and better to start fresh. First question is always: what phaser/noise canceller do you really want? What do you expect from it? Looking at the design of the MFJ-1025, it would take to much mods to realize my needs. When one of the antennas doesnt hear the noise source, you dont need a phaser. But of course that antenna still has to hear your wanted signals. Using a small loop antenna it is sometimes possible to null the noise source. I think playing with a short dipole, as you did, is the same as nulling with small loops. 73 de Jan PA0SIM I have the ANC-4 which works well. This new sense antenna is really good, as I can hear signals down to S-2 on 75 meters. I guess if I had to do it I would prefer to modify the ANC-4 as its a quality unit, not perfect but it is built well. If you would have any ideas as to modifying the ANC-4 I would'nt mind working with you on this project. But I will leave that one up to you. Hopefully I will be able to hear you in the contest this weekend on 75 meters! Good Luck in the contest my friend! Sri, I prefer my Digital Signal Processing route with the two Elecraft K2 receivers. DSP makes an ideal phaser. So no need here for a "better" analog one. And DSP gives me a lot more tricks to reduce interference and noise. 73 es gl de Jan PA0SIM May I ask what the tricks are? |
Timewave ANC-4 question!
.........
If you would have any ideas as to modifying the ANC-4 I would'nt mind working with you on this project. But I will leave that one up to you. ......... Sri, I prefer my Digital Signal Processing route with the two Elecraft K2 receivers. DSP makes an ideal phaser. So no need here for a "better" analog one. And DSP gives me a lot more tricks to reduce interference and noise. 73 es gl de Jan PA0SIM May I ask what the tricks are? Of course: 1) With only one receiver and one antenna: - Noise Reduction and Noise Blanker tricks as you see now implemented in the new DSP transceivers like the Orion and the SDR1000 (all the DSP must be in the AGC loop!). - In DSP it is possible to make very small bandwidth CW filters. - For better CW readability one can use binaural or panoramic reception. - DSP makes multi notch filtering possible (SSB) - In DSP it is possible to realize almost every AGC you can think of. (a better AGC can improve weak signal reception) 2) with two (or more) antennas and two phase coherent receivers - In DSP it is possible to realize the ideal phaser. - An alternative is "effective directivity" by frequency component selection see: http://home.plex.nl/~jmsi/Effective%...20by%20DSP.htm (the audio samples show what is possible with it) - True Diversity Reception, because both receivers can be made identical. - Enhanced Stereo Reception can improve readability for CW/SSB signals. 3) and the tricks I dont know yet. I am not a DSP guru. For example: (Blind) Source Seperation? see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source_separation Rather complex stuff HI. Donīt forget that not all DSP in the new tranceivers is well implemented. Important is to recognize that DSP has a bright future for us. 73 de Jan PA0SIM |
Timewave ANC-4 question!
Jan Simons PA0SIM wrote:
......... If you would have any ideas as to modifying the ANC-4 I would'nt mind working with you on this project. But I will leave that one up to you. ......... Sri, I prefer my Digital Signal Processing route with the two Elecraft K2 receivers. DSP makes an ideal phaser. So no need here for a "better" analog one. And DSP gives me a lot more tricks to reduce interference and noise. 73 es gl de Jan PA0SIM May I ask what the tricks are? Of course: 1) With only one receiver and one antenna: - Noise Reduction and Noise Blanker tricks as you see now implemented in the new DSP transceivers like the Orion and the SDR1000 (all the DSP must be in the AGC loop!). - In DSP it is possible to make very small bandwidth CW filters. - For better CW readability one can use binaural or panoramic reception. - DSP makes multi notch filtering possible (SSB) - In DSP it is possible to realize almost every AGC you can think of. (a better AGC can improve weak signal reception) 2) with two (or more) antennas and two phase coherent receivers - In DSP it is possible to realize the ideal phaser. - An alternative is "effective directivity" by frequency component selection see: http://home.plex.nl/~jmsi/Effective%...20by%20DSP.htm (the audio samples show what is possible with it) - True Diversity Reception, because both receivers can be made identical. - Enhanced Stereo Reception can improve readability for CW/SSB signals. 3) and the tricks I dont know yet. I am not a DSP guru. For example: (Blind) Source Seperation? see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source_separation Rather complex stuff HI. Donīt forget that not all DSP in the new tranceivers is well implemented. Important is to recognize that DSP has a bright future for us. 73 de Jan PA0SIM I have an SDR-1000, not really excited with the way it works. Especially the noise blankers. Not sure if its the latest SVN or what but the noise blankers just dont seem to do the job. I agree with the filtering though. Its better than many rigs I have heard. I recently added a roofing filter to an "old" Kenwood 930 and it did make a difference. I noticed the difference in the CQWW contest that just completed. One night I used the 930 the other the SDR 1000. Both receivers seemed to work as well as the other. All was going well until the antenna quit on me. This my friend is a whole other story. Shortened verticals are not the answer. Guess I will call Force 12 in the morning and see what they can offer me for a 75/80 meter antenna. |
Timewave ANC-4 question!
Sun Tzu wrote:
I use an Timewave ANC-4 to reduce noise on the low bands at my location. On 40 & 160 meters I can reduce the noise almost to S1, but on 75 meters I can only reduce it to S4-5. I use a noise sense antenna which is a dipole 4ft on each side about 4 inches off the ground and parallel to the power and telephone lines. Anyone have one of these units and having any ideas I might try to reduce 75 meters to a lower S-meter reading? All my low band antennas are verticals. Stan AH6JR Regarding the various DSP and Filtering comments. The ANC-4 keeps most of the noise crap from ever getting into the radio in the first place. Local manmade noise is phase canceled BEFORE the first rf connector INTO the rig. This makes the DSP/Filter functions much more effective in that they have a less severe noise environment to deal with. I use an ANC-4 with an ICOM 756 Pro III. I wouldn't be without the ANC-4. /s/ DD |
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