Large Wire Antenna for 17m
 

I have some space and some high trees. I already use a 400ft doublet with
atu for several bands and a 30m half square and get good results. I want to
improve my performance on 17m. I am now thinking about a wire antenna with
reasonable performance for 17m only. I have thought about a full wave loop,
even a bobtail. A broadside array would be great but I am not keen on
antennas with reflectors or directors because of the complexity of support
ropes. So, really some kind of antenna supported by ropes from two trees
would be ideal. Any ideas please?

Alan VK6BN

Large Wire Antenna for 17m
 

The problem you'll run smack into with any fixed antenna is that to get
gain in one direction you've got to take away gain in others. So the
first thing you have to decide is which directions do you want to
improve your signal in, and which are you willing to sacrifice. Then
consider where your trees are. Only then can you begin to consider what
kind of antenna might deliver what you want.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Alan Taylor wrote:
I have some space and some high trees. I already use a 400ft doublet with
atu for several bands and a 30m half square and get good results. I want to
improve my performance on 17m. I am now thinking about a wire antenna with
reasonable performance for 17m only. I have thought about a full wave loop,
even a bobtail. A broadside array would be great but I am not keen on
antennas with reflectors or directors because of the complexity of support
ropes. So, really some kind of antenna supported by ropes from two trees
would be ideal. Any ideas please?

Alan VK6BN

Large Wire Antenna for 17m
 

Thanks Roy,

I should have mentioned the trees are in position for a broadside array to
fire in the (two) directions I need.

I would use the trees that currently support the 30m half square firing
NE/SW.

73 Alan

"Roy Lewallen" wrote in message
...
The problem you'll run smack into with any fixed antenna is that to get
gain in one direction you've got to take away gain in others. So the first
thing you have to decide is which directions do you want to improve your
signal in, and which are you willing to sacrifice. Then consider where
your trees are. Only then can you begin to consider what kind of antenna
might deliver what you want.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Alan Taylor wrote:
I have some space and some high trees. I already use a 400ft doublet with
atu for several bands and a 30m half square and get good results. I want
to improve my performance on 17m. I am now thinking about a wire
antenna with reasonable performance for 17m only. I have thought about a
full wave loop, even a bobtail. A broadside array would be great but I
am not keen on antennas with reflectors or directors because of the
complexity of support ropes. So, really some kind of antenna supported by
ropes from two trees would be ideal. Any ideas please?

Alan VK6BN

Large Wire Antenna for 17m
 

Roy, ruling out quad loops and multi element antennas what do we have
available? I like the idea of working both LP and SP to the US but if you
have an idea for a wire antenna supported by only two ropes I would consider
that. What would the pattern be like for a bobtail with extra vertical
elements spaced the usual half wave? With the trees I have in mind I could
possibly fit in six vertical elements.

Thanks es 73 Alan


"Roy Lewallen" wrote in message
...
The problem you'll run smack into with any fixed antenna is that to get
gain in one direction you've got to take away gain in others. So the first
thing you have to decide is which directions do you want to improve your
signal in, and which are you willing to sacrifice. Then consider where
your trees are. Only then can you begin to consider what kind of antenna
might deliver what you want.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Alan Taylor wrote:
I have some space and some high trees. I already use a 400ft doublet with
atu for several bands and a 30m half square and get good results. I want
to improve my performance on 17m. I am now thinking about a wire
antenna with reasonable performance for 17m only. I have thought about a
full wave loop, even a bobtail. A broadside array would be great but I
am not keen on antennas with reflectors or directors because of the
complexity of support ropes. So, really some kind of antenna supported by
ropes from two trees would be ideal. Any ideas please?

Alan VK6BN

Large Wire Antenna for 17m
 

Alan Taylor wrote:
I have some space and some high trees. I already use a 400ft doublet with
atu for several bands and a 30m half square and get good results. I want to
improve my performance on 17m. I am now thinking about a wire antenna with
reasonable performance for 17m only. I have thought about a full wave loop,
even a bobtail. A broadside array would be great but I am not keen on
antennas with reflectors or directors because of the complexity of support
ropes. So, really some kind of antenna supported by ropes from two trees
would be ideal. Any ideas please?

Alan VK6BN


Hi Alan,

you do not say how High you can get your antenna in the air.. but if you
have the room and the height a Sterba Curtain may be a solution.

73 Dave Kc1di

Large Wire Antenna for 17m
 

Since you are supporting a 30 meter vertical, I suspect that you can
support a 17 meter half wave vertical.. A halfwave, bottom fed,
monopole, worked against an elevated counterpoise... Said elevated
counterpoise to be a half wave in length, and tapped at it's
centerpoint... Two or three feet off the ground will work, while head
high would be nice...
A single antenna will give 360 coverage... Two, three, or four of these
with switching to rotate the pattern will give you gain in given
directions, while still allowing 360 coverage...

denny / k8do

Alan Taylor wrote:
Roy, ruling out quad loops and multi element antennas what do we have
available?

Thanks es 73 Alan

Large Wire Antenna for 17m
 

Alan Taylor wrote:
I have some space and some high trees. I already use a 400ft doublet with
atu for several bands and a 30m half square and get good results. I want to
improve my performance on 17m. I am now thinking about a wire antenna with
reasonable performance for 17m only. I have thought about a full wave loop,
even a bobtail. A broadside array would be great but I am not keen on
antennas with reflectors or directors because of the complexity of support
ropes. So, really some kind of antenna supported by ropes from two trees
would be ideal. Any ideas please?

Omnidirectional or directional?
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Large Wire Antenna for 17m
 

Alan Taylor wrote:
I should have mentioned the trees are in position for a broadside array to
fire in the (two) directions I need.

A horizontal 66 ft. dipole fed with ladder-line would
work for 40m-10m and give you some gain over a 1/2WL
dipole on 17m where it would be an Extended Double
Zepp. EZNEC says feeding it with 9 feet of 450 ohm
ladder-line and then coax the rest of the way gives
a pretty good single-band match on 17m.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Large Wire Antenna for 17m
 

I have some space and some high trees. I already use a 400ft doublet with
atu for several bands and a 30m half square and get good results. I want to
improve my performance on 17m. I am now thinking about a wire antenna with
reasonable performance for 17m only. I have thought about a full wave loop,
even a bobtail. A broadside array would be great but I am not keen on
antennas with reflectors or directors because of the complexity of support
ropes. So, really some kind of antenna supported by ropes from two trees
would be ideal. Any ideas please?

As others have said, you need to decide where you want to point it first,
because something with significant gain is going to be directional.
For 17m you probably want to go horizontally polarized if you have high
trees.

You might consider a horizontal vee beam, the lengths and enclosed angled
are relatively non-critical. It would also work well on 20 and 15m. I have
also constructed tree-supported yagis (wire) and quads, but you do need to
tune the parasitic elements carefully to get good performance.

Two triangular quad elements (flat side up, fed at bottom point)
separated by three PVC pipe spacers makes a nice quad that will hang
between only two supports. I used to have a couple of those up for 20m and 15m.

Tor
N4OGW

Large Wire Antenna for 17m
 

If you can get it high enough, and I assume you can, why not a Delta loop
with the apex at the bottom? I have tried several different 17 meter
antennas, but the Delta loop is the best I found. True, it is only
bi-directional, but mine is NE/SW and works pretty well in those directions.
I use a Sigma 5 vertical dipole for everything else, but the loop is better
that the vertical in it's favored directions by a lot.
I also used a half square on 30 meters, but have since removed it in favor
of a simple inverted vee. I found the half square, while very effective on
transmitting, was noisy on receive. The vee 'heard' things better and seems
just as effective on transmitting. Fortunately, I was able to get the vee's
apex up to 45 feet. Anything lower than that favors the half square on 30. I
mention this because I also tried a half square on 17, but the loop was MUCH
better.

--
Jim Bob Buckeye
AKA
**** Jim Leder****
K8CXM since 1961
IBM retiree since 1999
http://home.fuse.net/k8cxm/


"Alan Taylor" wrote in message
...
I have some space and some high trees. I already use a 400ft doublet with
atu for several bands and a 30m half square and get good results. I want to
improve my performance on 17m. I am now thinking about a wire antenna
with reasonable performance for 17m only. I have thought about a full wave
loop, even a bobtail. A broadside array would be great but I am not keen
on antennas with reflectors or directors because of the complexity of
support ropes. So, really some kind of antenna supported by ropes from two
trees would be ideal. Any ideas please?

Alan VK6BN

Large Wire Antenna for 17m
 

Alan Taylor wrote:


Alan Taylor wrote:
I have some space and some high trees. I already use a 400ft doublet with
atu for several bands and a 30m half square and get good results. I want
to improve my performance on 17m. I am now thinking about a wire
antenna with reasonable performance for 17m only. I have thought about a
full wave loop, even a bobtail. A broadside array would be great but I
am not keen on antennas with reflectors or directors because of the
complexity of support ropes. So, really some kind of antenna supported by
ropes from two trees would be ideal. Any ideas please?

Alan VK6BN

The EDZ is the easiest I suppose. About 5.1 dbi/3dbd if I remember
right.
You could run two half wave dipoles, spaced a half wave apart
with rope. Feed in phase. Also good for about 3dbd. The lazy H
antennas could be run between two trees. Too bad you can't run a
yagi. That what you really need.. Or at least the most bang for it's
size,
and it can be steered. Also, I guess you could run a larger franklin
type
array. IE: 3 or more 1/2 wave elements. BTW, you also can use
"extended"
lazy H type arrays where the elements are EDZ length. Gives more gain
than the usual 1/2 wave lengths.
MK

Large Wire Antenna for 17m
 

Alan Taylor wrote:
Roy, ruling out quad loops and multi element antennas what do we have
available? I like the idea of working both LP and SP to the US but if you
have an idea for a wire antenna supported by only two ropes I would consider
that. What would the pattern be like for a bobtail with extra vertical
elements spaced the usual half wave? With the trees I have in mind I could
possibly fit in six vertical elements.

Of course, what I'd recommend is that you model some of these antennas
with a program like EZNEC. The free demo program is adequate for some of
the antennas you're interested in. The demo program is able to model
some more complex arrays with quite an accurate pattern -- what suffers
is the accuracy of the reported feedpoint impedance.

One antenna you might consider is the "Field Day Special"
(http://eznec.com/Amateur/Articles/Fi...y_Special.pdf). It has two
elements, but can be suspended with two ropes by using spreaders made
from PVC pipe or other light weight material. The advantage to this
antenna over some others is that it has a unidirectional pattern which
is easily and instantly reversible. With a unidirectional pattern, you
get a broader beamwidth for a given amount of gain, compared to a
bidirectional array. It also reduces QRM off the back, but of course you
get more to the sides of the broadside direction since the beam is wider.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Large Wire Antenna for 17m
 

Some good ideas, thanks.
Uni or Bi directional are both OK. I can get about 55ft in height. I just
want to use the space I have as effectively as I can for a 17m antenna. I am
OK for quite a few bands with my existing antennas but cant put up my tower
because of the visual impact! I will look at some of the antennas you have
suggested.

73 Alan

"Alan Taylor" wrote in message
...
I have some space and some high trees. I already use a 400ft doublet with
atu for several bands and a 30m half square and get good results. I want to
improve my performance on 17m. I am now thinking about a wire antenna
with reasonable performance for 17m only. I have thought about a full wave
loop, even a bobtail. A broadside array would be great but I am not keen
on antennas with reflectors or directors because of the complexity of
support ropes. So, really some kind of antenna supported by ropes from two
trees would be ideal. Any ideas please?

Alan VK6BN

Large Wire Antenna for 17m
 

Try this
http://www.gopherlink.com/DeltaXray/...rComments.html

Rich
*********************************************NN
"Jim Leder" wrote in message
...
If you can get it high enough, and I assume you can, why not a Delta loop
with the apex at the bottom? I have tried several different 17 meter
antennas, but the Delta loop is the best I found. True, it is only
bi-directional, but mine is NE/SW and works pretty well in those
directions. I use a Sigma 5 vertical dipole for everything else, but the
loop is better that the vertical in it's favored directions by a lot.
I also used a half square on 30 meters, but have since removed it in favor
of a simple inverted vee. I found the half square, while very effective on
transmitting, was noisy on receive. The vee 'heard' things better and
seems just as effective on transmitting. Fortunately, I was able to get
the vee's apex up to 45 feet. Anything lower than that favors the half
square on 30. I mention this because I also tried a half square on 17, but
the loop was MUCH better.

--
Jim Bob Buckeye
AKA
**** Jim Leder****
K8CXM since 1961
IBM retiree since 1999
http://home.fuse.net/k8cxm/


"Alan Taylor" wrote in message
...
I have some space and some high trees. I already use a 400ft doublet with
atu for several bands and a 30m half square and get good results. I want
to improve my performance on 17m. I am now thinking about a wire antenna
with reasonable performance for 17m only. I have thought about a full wave
loop, even a bobtail. A broadside array would be great but I am not keen
on antennas with reflectors or directors because of the complexity of
support ropes. So, really some kind of antenna supported by ropes from two
trees would be ideal. Any ideas please?

Alan VK6BN