matching 50 ohm line to 75 ohm antenna
 

Im trying to match 50 ohm coax (lmr400) with a log peroidic which
should have a 75 ohm feedpoint
the SWR is flat across the 6 m band but high. Im thinking i need a
better match but not sure
where to start.

matching 50 ohm line to 75 ohm antenna
 

"N4aeq" wrote in message
ps.com...
Im trying to match 50 ohm coax (lmr400) with a log peroidic which
should have a 75 ohm feedpoint
the SWR is flat across the 6 m band but high. Im thinking i need a
better match but not sure
where to start.

I can't remember the numbers, but there is a procedure in either the ARRL
Handbook, or antenna book for doing this. Basically, you have a short piece
of 50 Ohm coax, a short piece of 75 Ohm coax, and then an arbitrary length
of 50 Ohm transmission line.

If the antenna is 75 Ohms, your SWR on the 50 Ohm line should be no more
than 1.5:1. Are you sure you don't need a 4:1 balun? If your SWR is around 3
or 4, I would try the balun; easy neough to make out of a 1/2 wave piece of
coax.

Tam/WB2TT

matching 50 ohm line to 75 ohm antenna
 

Tam/WB2TT wrote:

I can't remember the numbers, but there is a procedure in either the ARRL
Handbook, or antenna book for doing this. Basically, you have a short piece
of 50 Ohm coax, a short piece of 75 Ohm coax, and then an arbitrary length
of 50 Ohm transmission line.

You are thinking of a nonsynchronous balun described he

http://www.k1ttt.net/technote/matching.html#k1xx

HOWEVER, this only works for one band (i.e. a monobander...not a
log-periodic covering multiple bands). If the antenna is 75 ohms, why
not simply use 75 ohm coax to the shack and then a tuner to convert to
50 ohms? Seems much simpler and you can normally get free 75 ohm
hardline for the asking at your local cable company (i.e. reel ends).

73, Bill W4ZV

matching 50 ohm line to 75 ohm antenna
 

N4aeq wrote:

Im trying to match 50 ohm coax (lmr400) with a log peroidic which
should have a 75 ohm feedpoint
the SWR is flat across the 6 m band but high. Im thinking i need a
better match but not sure
where to start.


You have not stated which LP you are using. So, my comments are general in nature.

The feedpoint impedance of a LP does vary as a function of frequency and the log
characteristics of the elements, their spacing, and the boom geometry. The
feedpoint impedance will cycle between a low to high value and generally remain
below 1.7:1.

Example: my HF LP [Tennadyne T8] can have any feedpoint impedance between 29.4
and 85 ohms as I tune from 13.5 MHz to 30 MHz and it will have numerous
excursions within the frequency range. That is the Physics of LP design.

Since the feedpoint impedance is a variable it is not easily matched to a
standard coax line.

Now, a VSWR of 1.7:1 relates to approximately 93% of the rigs power being
coupled to the antenna.

To your comment. What is the 6 meter VSWR?

If it is less than 2:1 [90% coupling to the antenna] then forget it!

matching 50 ohm line to 75 ohm antenna
 

Tam/WB2TT wrote:
I can't remember the numbers, but there is a procedure in either the ARRL
Handbook, or antenna book for doing this. Basically, you have a short piece
of 50 Ohm coax, a short piece of 75 Ohm coax, and then an arbitrary length
of 50 Ohm transmission line.

1/4WL of RG62 followed by 1/4WL of RG59 will give a good
match from 75 ohms to 50 ohms.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

matching 50 ohm line to 75 ohm antenna
 

Dave wrote:
N4aeq wrote:

Im trying to match 50 ohm coax (lmr400) with a log peroidic which
should have a 75 ohm feedpoint
the SWR is flat across the 6 m band but high. Im thinking i need a
better match but not sure
where to start.


You have not stated which LP you are using. So, my comments are general in nature.

The feedpoint impedance of a LP does vary as a function of frequency and the log
characteristics of the elements, their spacing, and the boom geometry. The
feedpoint impedance will cycle between a low to high value and generally remain
below 1.7:1.

Example: my HF LP [Tennadyne T8] can have any feedpoint impedance between 29.4
and 85 ohms as I tune from 13.5 MHz to 30 MHz and it will have numerous
excursions within the frequency range. That is the Physics of LP design.

Since the feedpoint impedance is a variable it is not easily matched to a
standard coax line.

Now, a VSWR of 1.7:1 relates to approximately 93% of the rigs power being
coupled to the antenna.

To your comment. What is the 6 meter VSWR?

If it is less than 2:1 [90% coupling to the antenna] then forget it!

Im using a double boom LPA, 50 coax connected to the front with shield
to one boom and
cc to the other. The back of the boom is shorted with a bar, it is a
monoband 50-54mhz
5 element. Swr nowhere near 2:1 (i wish) and i have checked the line
so its ok so maybe
i should have ask how do you adjust the impeadance on a double boom lpa?

matching 50 ohm line to 75 ohm antenna
 

wrote in message
oups.com...
Tam/WB2TT wrote:

I can't remember the numbers, but there is a procedure in either the ARRL
Handbook, or antenna book for doing this. Basically, you have a short
piece
of 50 Ohm coax, a short piece of 75 Ohm coax, and then an arbitrary
length
of 50 Ohm transmission line.

You are thinking of a nonsynchronous balun described he

http://www.k1ttt.net/technote/matching.html#k1xx

HOWEVER, this only works for one band (i.e. a monobander...not a
log-periodic covering multiple bands). If the antenna is 75 ohms, why
not simply use 75 ohm coax to the shack and then a tuner to convert to
50 ohms? Seems much simpler and you can normally get free 75 ohm
hardline for the asking at your local cable company (i.e. reel ends).

73, Bill W4ZV

He was talking about 6 meters.

Tam

matching 50 ohm line to 75 ohm antenna
 

On 15 Nov 2006 12:03:12 -0800, "N4aeq" wrote:

You have not stated which LP you are using.

Hi OM,

You never really answered this for Dave.

Im using a double boom LPA,

50 coax connected to the front with shield
to one boom and cc to the other.

Do you have any feedline decoupling/choking?

The back of the boom is shorted with a bar,

That should be a hairpin matching element.

it is a
monoband 50-54mhz
5 element. Swr nowhere near 2:1 (i wish) and i have checked the line
so its ok so maybe
i should have ask how do you adjust the impeadance on a double boom lpa?

The point of a Log Periodic is you are not expected to tune it. The
tune is built into the design as long as it is up high enough (and
probably even if it isn't).

If you SWR is so wildly off, you have a wild problem (feedline is
undecoupled is my guess).

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

matching 50 ohm line to 75 ohm antenna
 

"N4aeq" wrote in message
oups.com...

Dave wrote:
N4aeq wrote:

Im trying to match 50 ohm coax (lmr400) with a log peroidic which
should have a 75 ohm feedpoint
the SWR is flat across the 6 m band but high. Im thinking i need a
better match but not sure
where to start.


You have not stated which LP you are using. So, my comments are general
in nature.

The feedpoint impedance of a LP does vary as a function of frequency and
the log
characteristics of the elements, their spacing, and the boom geometry.
The
feedpoint impedance will cycle between a low to high value and generally
remain
below 1.7:1.

Example: my HF LP [Tennadyne T8] can have any feedpoint impedance between
29.4
and 85 ohms as I tune from 13.5 MHz to 30 MHz and it will have numerous
excursions within the frequency range. That is the Physics of LP design.

Since the feedpoint impedance is a variable it is not easily matched to a
standard coax line.

Now, a VSWR of 1.7:1 relates to approximately 93% of the rigs power being
coupled to the antenna.

To your comment. What is the 6 meter VSWR?

If it is less than 2:1 [90% coupling to the antenna] then forget it!

Im using a double boom LPA, 50 coax connected to the front with shield
to one boom and
cc to the other. The back of the boom is shorted with a bar, it is a
monoband 50-54mhz
5 element. Swr nowhere near 2:1 (i wish) and i have checked the line
so its ok so maybe
i should have ask how do you adjust the impeadance on a double boom lpa?

I still think it is a 200 Ohm antenna.

Tam

matching 50 ohm line to 75 ohm antenna
 

N4aeq wrote:


Im using a double boom LPA, 50 coax connected to the front with shield
to one boom and
cc to the other. The back of the boom is shorted with a bar, it is a
monoband 50-54mhz
5 element. Swr nowhere near 2:1 (i wish) and i have checked the line
so its ok so maybe
i should have ask how do you adjust the impeadance on a double boom lpa?

OK, It's a monoband LP.

I am assuming that the inter-element crossover connections are correct.

The feedpoint impedance is determined primarily by the dimensions and spacing of
the boom elements. They make a two element open wire transmission line. This is
fixed by the design and is not readily tunable [adjustable]. However, secondary
tuning adjustments are possible.

The "shorted with a bar" is a tuning stub that provides some degree of
adjustment. As stated in another post you may have a 200 ohm or possibly 300 ohm
feedpoint impedance [VSWR 4:1]. Please tell us what VSWR value you are seeing.
A VSWR of 4:1 indicates a 200 ohms design; 6:1 indicates a 300 ohm design, etc.

Check the dimensions of the tuning stub for length as described by the
manufacturer.

A LP is a balanced driven array. It should NOT be fed directly with coax [as you
describe]. Direct feed causes a current imbalance and currents on the outside
braid of the coax. You need either a choke balun or a ferrite based 6 meter balun.

matching 50 ohm line to 75 ohm antenna
 

OK, It's a monoband LP.

I am assuming that the inter-element crossover connections are correct.
Yes, double checked the assembly instructions


The feedpoint impedance is determined primarily by the dimensions and spacing of
the boom elements. They make a two element open wire transmission line. This is
fixed by the design and is not readily tunable [adjustable]. However, secondary
tuning adjustments are possible.
Its a plug and play, no tune LPA however i feel there are some strage
circumstances with the
feed or something as it worked fine at a different location & feedline
length.

The "shorted with a bar" is a tuning stub that provides some degree of
adjustment. As stated in another post you may have a 200 ohm or possibly 300 ohm
feedpoint impedance [VSWR 4:1]. Please tell us what VSWR value you are seeing.
A VSWR of 4:1 indicates a 200 ohms design; 6:1 indicates a 300 ohm design, etc.
No its a fixed bar and direct 50 connection.

Check the dimensions of the tuning stub for length as described by the
manufacturer.
No tunning

A LP is a balanced driven array. It should NOT be fed directly with coax [as you
describe]. Direct feed causes a current imbalance and currents on the outside
braid of the coax. You need either a choke balun or a ferrite based 6 meter balun.
No balun is needed however there maybe something strange going on so I
will try a coax
balun and try a fiberglass mounting pole, bottom line is i moved this
LPA about 30 foot, changed the polarity from vert to hor, same type of
feedline was used but instead of 70' its 35'long otherwize everythiong
stayed the same.

matching 50 ohm line to 75 ohm antenna
 

Dave wrote:
[snip]

A LP is a balanced driven array. It should NOT be fed directly with coax [as you
describe]. Direct feed causes a current imbalance and currents on the outside
braid of the coax. You need either a choke balun or a ferrite based 6 meter balun.

Actually if the coax is fed through one half of the boom with the outer
conductor attached to that side and the center conductor connected to
the other half of the boom you don't need a balun.

matching 50 ohm line to 75 ohm antenna
 

Tam/WB2TT wrote:
"N4aeq" wrote in message
oups.com...

Dave wrote:
N4aeq wrote:

Im trying to match 50 ohm coax (lmr400) with a log peroidic which
should have a 75 ohm feedpoint
the SWR is flat across the 6 m band but high. Im thinking i need a
better match but not sure
where to start.


You have not stated which LP you are using. So, my comments are general
in nature.

The feedpoint impedance of a LP does vary as a function of frequency and
the log
characteristics of the elements, their spacing, and the boom geometry.
The
feedpoint impedance will cycle between a low to high value and generally
remain
below 1.7:1.

Example: my HF LP [Tennadyne T8] can have any feedpoint impedance between
29.4
and 85 ohms as I tune from 13.5 MHz to 30 MHz and it will have numerous
excursions within the frequency range. That is the Physics of LP design.

Since the feedpoint impedance is a variable it is not easily matched to a
standard coax line.

Now, a VSWR of 1.7:1 relates to approximately 93% of the rigs power being
coupled to the antenna.

To your comment. What is the 6 meter VSWR?

If it is less than 2:1 [90% coupling to the antenna] then forget it!

Im using a double boom LPA, 50 coax connected to the front with shield
to one boom and
cc to the other. The back of the boom is shorted with a bar, it is a
monoband 50-54mhz
5 element. Swr nowhere near 2:1 (i wish) and i have checked the line
so its ok so maybe
i should have ask how do you adjust the impeadance on a double boom lpa?

I still think it is a 200 Ohm antenna.

Tam

On a double boom LPA ithe nominal value can be around 50 ohms, It
depends on the spacing of the booms. Bill Orr has a design for 6 meters
that used 3 or 4 elements in an LPA and then added a few parasitic
elements. I tried this antenna and mine had no noticeable improvement
over my 4 element Yagi

Jimmie D

matching 50 ohm line to 75 ohm antenna
 

Tam/WB2TT wrote:
"N4aeq" wrote in message
oups.com...

Dave wrote:
N4aeq wrote:

Im trying to match 50 ohm coax (lmr400) with a log peroidic which
should have a 75 ohm feedpoint
the SWR is flat across the 6 m band but high. Im thinking i need a
better match but not sure
where to start.


You have not stated which LP you are using. So, my comments are general
in nature.

The feedpoint impedance of a LP does vary as a function of frequency and
the log
characteristics of the elements, their spacing, and the boom geometry.
The
feedpoint impedance will cycle between a low to high value and generally
remain
below 1.7:1.

Example: my HF LP [Tennadyne T8] can have any feedpoint impedance between
29.4
and 85 ohms as I tune from 13.5 MHz to 30 MHz and it will have numerous
excursions within the frequency range. That is the Physics of LP design.

Since the feedpoint impedance is a variable it is not easily matched to a
standard coax line.

Now, a VSWR of 1.7:1 relates to approximately 93% of the rigs power being
coupled to the antenna.

To your comment. What is the 6 meter VSWR?

If it is less than 2:1 [90% coupling to the antenna] then forget it!

Im using a double boom LPA, 50 coax connected to the front with shield
to one boom and
cc to the other. The back of the boom is shorted with a bar, it is a
monoband 50-54mhz
5 element. Swr nowhere near 2:1 (i wish) and i have checked the line
so its ok so maybe
i should have ask how do you adjust the impeadance on a double boom lpa?

I still think it is a 200 Ohm antenna.

Tam

On a double boom LPA ithe nominal value can be around 50 ohms, It
depends on the spacing of the booms. Bill Orr has a design for 6 meters
that used 3 or 4 elements in an LPA and then added a few parasitic
elements. I tried this antenna and mine had no noticeable improvement
over my 4 element Yagi

Jimmie D

matching 50 ohm line to 75 ohm antenna
 

JIMMIE wrote:

SNIPPED

On a double boom LPA ithe nominal value can be around 50 ohms, It
depends on the spacing of the booms. Bill Orr has a design for 6 meters
that used 3 or 4 elements in an LPA and then added a few parasitic
elements. I tried this antenna and mine had no noticeable improvement
over my 4 element Yagi

Jimmie D


Jimmie, I would expect no improvement in GAIN over a four element Yagi.

But how does the VSWR compare between the two antennas when measured
continuously from 50.0 to 54.0 MHz? I expect the LP will have a more uniform
VSWR. That is why people choose LPs. Namely to get a 'flatter' VSWR response.

/s/ DD

matching 50 ohm line to 75 ohm antenna
 

"Dave" wrote in message
. ..
JIMMIE wrote:

SNIPPED

On a double boom LPA ithe nominal value can be around 50 ohms, It
depends on the spacing of the booms. Bill Orr has a design for 6 meters
that used 3 or 4 elements in an LPA and then added a few parasitic
elements. I tried this antenna and mine had no noticeable improvement
over my 4 element Yagi Jimmie D


Jimmie, I would expect no improvement in GAIN over a four element Yagi.

But how does the VSWR compare between the two antennas when measured
continuously from 50.0 to 54.0 MHz? I expect the LP will have a more
uniform VSWR. That is why people choose LPs. Namely to get a 'flatter'
VSWR response.

/s/ DD

I was never really interested in covering the whole band , just the first
1.5 Mhz or so. The SWR was comparable in this area on both antennas. The
Yagi was easier and cheaper to build.