Hi Art

Thanks for taking your time to direct me to some very complex thinking.
But, I'm a rather simple guy who isnt well educated. You apparently expect
a "just regular guy" like me to understand the ccomplex convoluted
theoretical stuff that you write about.
When I did work as an antenna design engineer, years ago, I saw some of my
buddies working on the distribution of energy across apertures in an effort
to shape beams. One of their considerations was to decrease the power to
the elements as they were more distant from the center of the array. I
remember reading that when the power is tapered to provide a distribution
about equivalent to a Gaussian Distribution, the side lobes were minimal.

I really enjoy thinking about real antenna construction projects. but,
when it gets to the Maxwell's Equation kind of analysis, I get lost. I dont
even know what a Vector is.
You may have the wrong impression about me, Art, I'm an old guy who wants
to have fun with antennas. It isnt necessary for you to tell me to "get back
to basics". I dont have interest in the "basics" you refer to.

Is it possible for you to tell us (me) what you are referring to without
referring to Vectors, Gauss's law, Lorentz, "Nagi", and even elementary
calculus? Frankly, Art, you confuse me when you write such scholarly
paragraphs. You and I are so far removed from each other intellectually
that I can never keep up with your texts.

Jerry


"art" wrote in message
ups.com...
Jerry, get back to basics and look up a conservative field relative to
Gaussian law.
Step 1
It is a group of electric charges with an addition vector of zero. So
move backwards and remove that vector if you wish and you have a
gaussian field of electrical charges which in the case of a bunch of
resonant elements can be seen as all positive or all negative charges
and we also know that Gaussian law is valid even for enclosed charges
in motion.

Step 2 The vector that we removed is known as curl but at this time nit
has no valu is the samee tho the vector direction is known.
Step 3 Faraday's law of Induced electromotive force. This is somewhat
opposite to the consevative field in terms of rotation but in relative
terms it where the consevative field is revolving around a magnetic
field ( hopefully you can visualise this) So we have a charge q in an
element of length ds, which element, at the instant considered has
velocity u,experiences a force. Now I know some have difficulty with
what I said earlier with respect to adding " at an instant of time) to
Gausses law which is the same length of time referred to above as " at
the instant considered "

Gtep 4 We then examine Lorentz equation which refers to an induced
electric field which is present when, for example the magnetic field is
changing with time such that
v1 = 1/q integral F.ds. You can now see that any CONSERVATIVE force
that might be included in F would integrate to zero thus ommiting any
electrostatic field that might be present Note again faradays law, it
is valid regardloess of the nature of the factor or factors responsible
for change in magnetic flux. So now the overview of the cluster of
resonant elements projected a conservative field with a magnetic vector
of zero reflecting" an instant of time" with respect to resonant
elements and where the magnetic field will provide
motion to the electrostatic field where all charges will exibit the
same direction of charge and will change in unison

Now no amount of writing will get you to understand this flow of
concept if you are not willing to have an open mind or think around
something that at the present time you fail to understand and are not
willing to rethink thing, possibly in a different way than I presented
it.

If you are so inclined you can go back further in history and play with
the 4 vertical array of elements formed by Nagi to obtain possible
insights since he also worked with an array of vertical elements all of
which were resonant. His work has been rechecked via Matlab and found
to be correct so you have a viable path to follow if you have a modicom
of interest in this new concept. It must be noted that the above is
only a partial description of the concept
because I have yet to add a detuned element for directional purposes
for the radiation field.

There is nothing more that I can add that will persuade you to follow
thru with this concept
so I believe I have now reached the Rubicon with respect to this vision
of mine. If you can't understand it now put it down to me not being
smart enough to explain clearly electromagnetics to those skilled in
the art which I am now finding to be a hopeless task at least here in
the U.S. unless one can read it in a book and memorise it so one can
pass an exam..
Art








Jerry Martes wrote:
"JIMMIE" wrote in message
ups.com...

Dave wrote:
"art" wrote in message
ups.com...
In the thread Rain static I referred to a closed surface which is
clearly
defined by Gauss's law.

Gauss's law doesn't define a surface, the surface is any arbitrary
surface
surrounding a charge.

Let us now look at a time vary field applied to

a dielectric. I fht efield is applied for the shortest of time the
charges
will stay on the surface. If time is longer than the shortest space
of
time

you make it sound like there is some 'shortest' time where charges
won't
move. this is not true. no matter how short you make the time it will
move
the charges.

then charges will openetrate the closed surface. If the surface is
an
insulator type then it takes a long while to penetrate but if the
surface

Here you mix up 'surface' and 'surface'. the gauss's law 'surface' is
a
mathematically useful construction around a charge, it does not have
any
charge 'on' it, nor is there any 'penetration' of it by charge in
gauss's
law. it is strictly a non-material thing that is used only for
calculation
purposes.

is a good conductor then the charges will penetrate very quickly so
we can associate the time constant of penetration to the subject of
skin depth. If we are to associate the time varying field to a
gaussian field

you have yet to define a 'gaussian field'. gauss's law applies to
electric
fields and their relation to charges.

all the excess charges must be on the surface by law.

only in a 'perfect' conductor. dielectrics and 'empty' space can have
distributed charges throughout.

Or in other words
the time evolved must be shorter than the time required to begin
penetration.

huh? it just goes down hill from here. write some equations, do some
drawings, publish a manuscript. all the rest is empty handwaving
based
on
incorrect assumptions and missing definitions.

Thus for a short space of time all charges are on the surface and
the
charges
have a magnhe radiating eneetic and electric field vectors. Just
having
charges is not enough to convert to a gaussian field in that a
gaussian
field must be in equilibrium thus a cluster of elements
must have the direction of the surface charges change in unison. For
a
cluster of elements to do this they must all be resonant such that
the
charges reach the ends of the elements at the same time. Resonance
of
an element is determined by its diameter and its length and because
it
is coupled to other elements in the cluster the coupling must be
taken
into account to secure resonance of not only the individual elements
but of the cluster as a whole. When this is accomplished the charges
on
the surface of the closed volume are in equilibrium but onty for
that
shortest of short time and where that time is added to the gaussian
formulae for the transition to be complete. For the Gaussian field
or
volume we can say the energy inside the gaussian field is equal to
that
supplied by flux to the outside of the border and remember the flux
inside consists of magnetic and electric vectoirs. We now can say
that
in a moment of time the flux produced from each element that
breaches
the border in summation with the other elements is equal to the
radiating field outside of the border when each element energy makes
the transmittion. Thus the summation of each of the clustered
elements
individual energy when the vectors are given a value
must equal the flux on the outside of the border that produces
radiation. We also know that if we have a cluster of elements that
are
clustered together we can obtain radiation by just applying a time
varing field to just one of the elements and by virtue of
intercoupling
all the radiating energy
will leave the near field. Thus we have two different methods of
determining the value of the radiated field
! radiation from the clustered within a Gaussian field and
2 radiation from an array of coupled elements
Since the elements within the cluster are all of the same "Q'" the
determination of all factors
in the resulting equation are simplified to Ohms law and where the
laborious coupling calculations
are omitted. The above describes in first principles as to how a
Gaussian field in a short space of time can be equated to a
radiating
cluster using existing laws of the masters which also embraces NEC
code. Now many have said I have no understanding of radiation
concepts
so go ahead and tear this apart and have a merry Xmas doing it
Art Unwin KB9MZ..........XG


It appears Art has picked up some phrases haphazardly and is trying to
apply them to antennas some how, If I remember correctly doesnt
Gaussian field apply to statistical distribution. Been a long time
since I had statistical analysis back in the early 70s but I think this
is also refered to as a "normal distribution".

Hi Jimmy

By my standards, you are *Right On* on all you wrote. I'm pretty sure
Gaussian distribution of power across a radiating plane results
(theoretically) in zero side lobes, That is also a very poor
distribution
when gain is a goal. I think the term Normal is synonymous with
Gaussian
when referring to aperture distribution.

Jerry