killing cars with high RF?
 

Hi,
What's all this business I hear people talking about blasting people's
car stereos or killing cars altogether with high-power RF? I run 2m,
10m, and 11m in my jeep and I'd like to sort out the fact from the
legend and find out what kind of power I can use without risking
damage to my jeep or cars around me. At what power level is front-end
overload to a nearby radio likely? At what power level is damage
likely, and to what componets?

I am currently using only 50 watts on a 5/8 wave (2m), 25w on a 1/4
wave (10m), legal 4w on a 1/4 wave (11m)

Thanks,
Nelson KE5MBX

killing cars with high RF?
 

"KE5MBX" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi,
What's all this business I hear people talking about blasting people's
car stereos or killing cars altogether with high-power RF? I run 2m,
10m, and 11m in my jeep and I'd like to sort out the fact from the
legend and find out what kind of power I can use without risking
damage to my jeep or cars around me. At what power level is front-end
overload to a nearby radio likely? At what power level is damage
likely, and to what componets?

I am currently using only 50 watts on a 5/8 wave (2m), 25w on a 1/4
wave (10m), legal 4w on a 1/4 wave (11m)

Thanks,
Nelson KE5MBX


I think over 100W you may have problems with HF and VHF. It can be a
problem.

One thing that works real well is to transmit near the x-ray radar band
where you have privileges. The traffic may slow down a bit as you set off
the radar detectors :-)

killing cars with high RF?
 

Stefan Wolfe wrote:
One thing that works real well is to transmit near the x-ray radar band
where you have privileges. The traffic may slow down a bit as you set off
the radar detectors :-)

A number of years ago (I forget exactly what year) a
ham friend of mine discovered that he could cause a
new Cadillac to stall simply by keying his transmitter
as the Cadillac was passing his camper. That design
problem was probably fixed rather quickly.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

killing cars with high RF?
 

It doesn't take much. Back in the early '90s a group of us were returning
from a hamfest and I was riding in the back seat of one guy's late '80s
Ford something or other (Crown Victoria, maybe?). I was using my HT to
talk to the other car on 2m and the driver noticed that his cruise control
was gaining speed and when I unkeyed it settled down. Once I figured out
it was my HT causing it, loads of fun ensued.

If something is sensitive to RF, it probably won't take much to cause it
to malfunction. The fact is that nobody does RF shielding or protection
for consumer electronics, so there is no set power limit below which a
device may not be affected.

- Nate

--

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds,
the pessimist fears this is true."

killing cars with high RF?
 

On Feb 12, 5:50 pm, "Stefan Wolfe" wrote:
"KE5MBX" wrote in message

ups.com...

Hi,
What's all this business I hear people talking about blasting people's
car stereos or killing cars altogether with high-power RF? I run 2m,
10m, and 11m in my jeep and I'd like to sort out the fact from the
legend and find out what kind of power I can use without risking
damage to my jeep or cars around me. At what power level is front-end
overload to a nearby radio likely? At what power level is damage
likely, and to what componets?

I am currently using only 50 watts on a 5/8 wave (2m), 25w on a 1/4
wave (10m), legal 4w on a 1/4 wave (11m)

Thanks,
Nelson KE5MBX

I think over 100W you may have problems with HF and VHF. It can be a
problem.

One thing that works real well is to transmit near the x-ray radar band
where you have privileges. The traffic may slow down a bit as you set off
the radar detectors :-)

Where the heck do you get a 3cm transmitter, though? ha.

killing cars with high RF?
 

Cecil Moore wrote in
et:

Stefan Wolfe wrote:
One thing that works real well is to transmit near the x-ray radar
band where you have privileges. The traffic may slow down a bit as
you set off the radar detectors :-)

A number of years ago (I forget exactly what year) a
ham friend of mine discovered that he could cause a
new Cadillac to stall simply by keying his transmitter
as the Cadillac was passing his camper. That design
problem was probably fixed rather quickly.

Back in the '70s I was working on a project that saw me reading papers on
the effects of EMR on various things. Amongst the papers was one dealing
with the susceptibility of the electronic anti-skid technology introduced
on heavy transport vehicles to meet (then) newer more stingent braking
distances. The braking systems were susceptible to ingress of RF,
resulting in wheel lockups. You can imagine the results of a 22 wheeler
at highway speed when a chook alongside comes up with "Breaker, Breaker,
any taker?" and locks up most of the wheels on the transport. I read
other papers on rear wheel lockups in a certain brand of passenger
vehicle due to RF induced downshift of the (electronically controlled)
automatic transmission at highway speeds.

The EMC issue seems better understood by vehicle manufacturers today,
though you still hear of RF triggered airbag deployments from time to
time.

I won't go into the papers on effects on aircraft, some of you may fly
from time to time! A paper on propagation of EM waves through rectangular
slots in thin sheet metal looks innocuous enough until you realise that
it is talking about an aircraft window (in the days when almost all
aircraft had a metal skin).

Owen

killing cars with high RF?
 

Dear Owen: Well do I remember the onset of EMC awareness that came with
the early anti-skid systems. One horror case took place in Chicago with a
bus. One of the many short bridges in Chicago has metal decking and a bus
stop at the far end of the bridge. The bridge also is aligned with the
Sears tower (in downtown Chicago it is difficult not to be aligned with some
strong RF radiator - it is worse than a carrier). Bus starts onto the
bridge. Patrons stand to get off at the next stop. Breaks fail while on
bridge. Driver fully asserts the brakes. Bus arrives at the end of the
bridge and the brakes start to work. People go flying.

I was a witness of the (very early and crude) method used to test
systems. Not anymore! Today, whole cars are zapped from all directions,
all frequencies, and at huge amplitudes. A huge effort was made to find out
what sort of signals a car might encounter. I once rode in a van all the
way to Chicago glued to a SA to record strong signals. The worst that I saw
was a VOR signal (few hundred watts at ground level with a very good radial
screen and near the road) and a CB signal. Others in the project measured
at VOA and LORAN sites. An FM broadcast antenna was found to radiate a huge
signal onto a public street - see, you know that antenna design would be
worked into the discussion - in this case an incompetent, but not unusual,
antenna design.

At work, we have a big RF amplifier used to zap devices in order to find
out where they die. Had to get a waiver from FCC because, even though the
amp requires three-phase, it could be used on 27 MHz.

Critical equipment is much more EMC capable today.

73, Mac N8TT
--
J. Mc Laughlin; Michigan U.S.A.
Home:
"Owen Duffy" wrote in message
...
Cecil Moore wrote in
et:

Stefan Wolfe wrote:
One thing that works real well is to transmit near the x-ray radar
band where you have privileges. The traffic may slow down a bit as
you set off the radar detectors :-)

A number of years ago (I forget exactly what year) a
ham friend of mine discovered that he could cause a
new Cadillac to stall simply by keying his transmitter
as the Cadillac was passing his camper. That design
problem was probably fixed rather quickly.

Back in the '70s I was working on a project that saw me reading papers on
the effects of EMR on various things. Amongst the papers was one dealing
with the susceptibility of the electronic anti-skid technology introduced
on heavy transport vehicles to meet (then) newer more stingent braking
distances. The braking systems were susceptible to ingress of RF,
resulting in wheel lockups. You can imagine the results of a 22 wheeler
at highway speed when a chook alongside comes up with "Breaker, Breaker,
any taker?" and locks up most of the wheels on the transport. I read
other papers on rear wheel lockups in a certain brand of passenger
vehicle due to RF induced downshift of the (electronically controlled)
automatic transmission at highway speeds.

The EMC issue seems better understood by vehicle manufacturers today,
though you still hear of RF triggered airbag deployments from time to
time.

I won't go into the papers on effects on aircraft, some of you may fly
from time to time! A paper on propagation of EM waves through rectangular
slots in thin sheet metal looks innocuous enough until you realise that
it is talking about an aircraft window (in the days when almost all
aircraft had a metal skin).

Owen

killing cars with high RF?
 

On Feb 12, 3:18 pm, "KE5MBX" wrote:
Hi,
What's all this business I hear people talking about blasting people's
car stereos or killing cars altogether with high-power RF? I run 2m,
10m, and 11m in my jeep and I'd like to sort out the fact from the
legend and find out what kind of power I can use without risking
damage to my jeep or cars around me. At what power level is front-end
overload to a nearby radio likely? At what power level is damage
likely, and to what componets?

I am currently using only 50 watts on a 5/8 wave (2m), 25w on a 1/4
wave (10m), legal 4w on a 1/4 wave (11m)

Thanks,
Nelson KE5MBX


you might have more issues with RF exposure to you and safety,
particularly on the 2m band, depending on where the antenna is.

But, as far as killing your car radio (or one next to you) goes, you'd
have to look at the coupling from your antenna to the car radio's. 2m
is going to be the worst case because the victim receiver is close to
that frequency, so the coupling from your antenna to its is highest.
The easy case is the car in the next lane (because it's reasonably far
away.. more than a couple wavelengths), so you could do some sort of
rule of thumb free space path loss kind of calculation...Say you're 5m
away at 144MHz.

Loss = 32.44 + 20*log10(d in km) + 20*log10(f in MHz) = 32.44 -46+43
dB = about 30 dB loss. You're radiating 50 W, and let's assume your
antenna is 3dBi, so your EIRP is 100W or +50dBm. The victim is seeing
+20dBm (a tenth of a watt)... about 2 Volts into a 75 ohm load.
Assuming the victim radio has protection diodes across the input,
you're probably not going to kill it. Run a kilowatt and it's another
story...


As a practical matter, my 2m antenna is about 1 meter from the car
radio antenna, and when I transmit at 50W, the FM car radio blocks,
but recovers just fine. Likewise, transmitting at 100W on HF. Your
mileage may vary, etc.

Jim, W6RMK

killing cars with high RF?
 

On Feb 12, 5:15 pm, "KE5MBX" wrote:
On Feb 12, 5:50 pm, "Stefan Wolfe" wrote:



"KE5MBX" wrote in message

oups.com...

Hi,
What's all this business I hear people talking about blasting people's
car stereos or killing cars altogether with high-power RF? I run 2m,
10m, and 11m in my jeep and I'd like to sort out the fact from the
legend and find out what kind of power I can use without risking
damage to my jeep or cars around me. At what power level is front-end
overload to a nearby radio likely? At what power level is damage
likely, and to what componets?

I am currently using only 50 watts on a 5/8 wave (2m), 25w on a 1/4
wave (10m), legal 4w on a 1/4 wave (11m)

Thanks,
Nelson KE5MBX

I think over 100W you may have problems with HF and VHF. It can be a
problem.

One thing that works real well is to transmit near the x-ray radar band
where you have privileges. The traffic may slow down a bit as you set off
the radar detectors :-)

Where the heck do you get a 3cm transmitter, though? ha.

10.525 GHz is an amateur band, and is the same band used by the X-band
radars, and transmitters are readily available for $100. Gunnplexers
are one example, but people also use modified "microwave door openers"
to experiment in X band.

killing cars with high RF?
 

On Feb 12, 4:40 pm, Nate Bargmann
wrote:
It doesn't take much. Back in the early '90s a group of us were returning
from a hamfest and I was riding in the back seat of one guy's late '80s
Ford something or other (Crown Victoria, maybe?). I was using my HT to

If something is sensitive to RF, it probably won't take much to cause it
to malfunction. The fact is that nobody does RF shielding or protection
for consumer electronics, so there is no set power limit below which a
device may not be affected.


The increased prevalence of EMI/EMC problems means that modern cars
are MUCH better about this. Almost all new cars go through a fairly
rigorous test program for immunity from radiated fields. Nobody wants
to have the engine or braking control systems fail when the police car
next to them calls home on their VHF low band radio. There's rafts of
SAE specs for this, but I don't recall the field strengths. Several
hundred volts/m though, is what I think.

Aftermarket addons (stereos, nav systems, etc.) aren't nearly as good
on the account. Some automotive equipment is exempt from Part 15 (for
instance, the nifty OBD II readers are pretty good RFI emitters...)

killing cars with high RF?
 

KE5MBX wrote:

Where the heck do you get a 3cm transmitter, though? ha.


http://www.downeastmicrowave.com/

And you can easily do 200KM on 200 mW, or 1000 KM per watt with a Dish
Network (or equivalent) antenna on 10G SSB forward scatter.

tom
K0TAR

killing cars with high RF?
 

On Feb 12, 8:47 pm, Tom Ring wrote:
KE5MBX wrote:

Where the heck do you get a 3cm transmitter, though? ha.

http://www.downeastmicrowave.com/

And you can easily do 200KM on 200 mW, or 1000 KM per watt with a Dish
Network (or equivalent) antenna on 10G SSB forward scatter.

tom
K0TAR

so you don't go out and buy a "3cm transceiver" as you would for 2m,
10m, 40m, etc.?

killing cars with high RF?
 

"KE5MBX" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Feb 12, 8:47 pm, Tom Ring wrote:
KE5MBX wrote:

Where the heck do you get a 3cm transmitter, though? ha.

http://www.downeastmicrowave.com/

And you can easily do 200KM on 200 mW, or 1000 KM per watt with a Dish
Network (or equivalent) antenna on 10G SSB forward scatter.

tom
K0TAR

so you don't go out and buy a "3cm transceiver" as you would for 2m,
10m, 40m, etc.?

:-))

killing cars with high RF?
 

KE5MBX wrote:
On Feb 12, 8:47 pm, Tom Ring wrote:
KE5MBX wrote:

Where the heck do you get a 3cm transmitter, though? ha.
http://www.downeastmicrowave.com/

And you can easily do 200KM on 200 mW, or 1000 KM per watt with a Dish
Network (or equivalent) antenna on 10G SSB forward scatter.

tom
K0TAR

so you don't go out and buy a "3cm transceiver" as you would for 2m,
10m, 40m, etc.?


You could,
http://www.advancedreceiver.com/page32.html


- Galen, W8LNA

killing cars with high RF?
 

KE5MBX wrote:
On Feb 12, 8:47 pm, Tom Ring wrote:
KE5MBX wrote:

Where the heck do you get a 3cm transmitter, though? ha.
http://www.downeastmicrowave.com/

And you can easily do 200KM on 200 mW, or 1000 KM per watt with a Dish
Network (or equivalent) antenna on 10G SSB forward scatter.

tom
K0TAR

so you don't go out and buy a "3cm transceiver" as you would for 2m,
10m, 40m, etc.?

Yes you can. Check the back of QST for a complete 3cm station. Cost is
about $500 or so.

Dave WD9BDZ

killing cars with high RF?
 

On Feb 12, 10:44 pm, "Stefan Wolfe" wrote:
"KE5MBX" wrote in message

ups.com...

On Feb 12, 8:47 pm, Tom Ring wrote:
KE5MBX wrote:

Where the heck do you get a 3cm transmitter, though? ha.

http://www.downeastmicrowave.com/

And you can easily do 200KM on 200 mW, or 1000 KM per watt with a Dish
Network (or equivalent) antenna on 10G SSB forward scatter.

tom
K0TAR

so you don't go out and buy a "3cm transceiver" as you would for 2m,
10m, 40m, etc.?

:-))

"Yes you can. Check the back of QST for a complete 3cm station. Cost
is
about $500 or so. "

:-)) :-))

killing cars with high RF?
 

Think you meant "X" Band (10 GHz). I don't think many of us are using
x-rays for communications...

Scott
N0EDV

Stefan Wolfe wrote:

"KE5MBX" wrote in message
ups.com...

Hi,
What's all this business I hear people talking about blasting people's
car stereos or killing cars altogether with high-power RF? I run 2m,
10m, and 11m in my jeep and I'd like to sort out the fact from the
legend and find out what kind of power I can use without risking
damage to my jeep or cars around me. At what power level is front-end
overload to a nearby radio likely? At what power level is damage
likely, and to what componets?

I am currently using only 50 watts on a 5/8 wave (2m), 25w on a 1/4
wave (10m), legal 4w on a 1/4 wave (11m)

Thanks,
Nelson KE5MBX



I think over 100W you may have problems with HF and VHF. It can be a
problem.

One thing that works real well is to transmit near the x-ray radar band
where you have privileges. The traffic may slow down a bit as you set off
the radar detectors :-)

killing cars with high RF?
 

I've heard that as well with Japanese cars. I think the computer gets
RFI'd out and shuts down the ignition system. Maybe something for the
Mythbusters TV show to check out...

Scott



Cecil Moore wrote:

Stefan Wolfe wrote:

One thing that works real well is to transmit near the x-ray radar
band where you have privileges. The traffic may slow down a bit as you
set off the radar detectors :-)


A number of years ago (I forget exactly what year) a
ham friend of mine discovered that he could cause a
new Cadillac to stall simply by keying his transmitter
as the Cadillac was passing his camper. That design
problem was probably fixed rather quickly.

killing cars with high RF?
 

Oh, that's an easy one...(Gunnplexers come to mind for a simple CW 3cm
transmitter)

http://www.downeastmicrowave.com or http://www.shfmicro.com and there
are probably a few others...

Scott
N0EDV

KE5MBX wrote:

On Feb 12, 5:50 pm, "Stefan Wolfe" wrote:

"KE5MBX" wrote in message

roups.com...


Hi,
What's all this business I hear people talking about blasting people's
car stereos or killing cars altogether with high-power RF? I run 2m,
10m, and 11m in my jeep and I'd like to sort out the fact from the
legend and find out what kind of power I can use without risking
damage to my jeep or cars around me. At what power level is front-end
overload to a nearby radio likely? At what power level is damage
likely, and to what componets?

I am currently using only 50 watts on a 5/8 wave (2m), 25w on a 1/4
wave (10m), legal 4w on a 1/4 wave (11m)

Thanks,
Nelson KE5MBX

I think over 100W you may have problems with HF and VHF. It can be a
problem.

One thing that works real well is to transmit near the x-ray radar band
where you have privileges. The traffic may slow down a bit as you set off
the radar detectors :-)


Where the heck do you get a 3cm transmitter, though? ha.

killing cars with high RF?
 

Uh, not quite. While the X Band police radars are at 10.525 GHz, the
ham band is only from 10.000 to 10.500 GHz. Plus, pulse modulation is
not allowed on the 3cm band. We CAN use MCW, phone, image, RTTY, data,
SS, and test modulations. Hmmm, I wonder about plain old vanilla CW???
I don't see it mentioned...maybe "data" covers that nowadays (and with
a bandwidth limit of 100 KHz, we could smoke along at a LOT of WPM!!).

Scott
N0EDV

wrote:





10.525 GHz is an amateur band, and is the same band used by the X-band
radars, and transmitters are readily available for $100. Gunnplexers
are one example, but people also use modified "microwave door openers"
to experiment in X band.

killing cars with high RF?
 

Sure you do...from the link Tom provided. DownEast offers the
"transverters" in kit or built form. Tons of us are using their
equipment :) See also http://www.nlrs.org to see what we're all doing
up there.

Scott
N0EDV

KE5MBX wrote:

On Feb 12, 8:47 pm, Tom Ring wrote:

KE5MBX wrote:


Where the heck do you get a 3cm transmitter, though? ha.

http://www.downeastmicrowave.com/

And you can easily do 200KM on 200 mW, or 1000 KM per watt with a Dish
Network (or equivalent) antenna on 10G SSB forward scatter.

tom
K0TAR


so you don't go out and buy a "3cm transceiver" as you would for 2m,
10m, 40m, etc.?

killing cars with high RF?
 

Owen is right-- When a radio-man , had a guy come
into the shop, complaining about his truck
stalling when he transmitted. (freq around 160
MHz) Ran his truck, (idle), keyed rig, NO
Problem! Said to take it for test run- in low
gear, (abt. 2000-2500 rpm), and keyed the
transmitter, the rig STALLED! Wasn't a problem
when I installed radio- turned out they had
modified the truck to an Electronic Ignition!
This around 25 years ago. Tried various cures
but, they went back to the original "Points &
coil" system and worked fine! (this before these
were common on vehicles). Translation: YES, can
effect a vehicle, but times have changed: might
not be so supsceptable now a days (more problems
with the built in computer that they seem to
like to hide-- drill a hole in these- turn a car
into a thrashing machine! ). But BOTH can cause
problems. btw the power level for the problem was
a 50 Watt radio. and the SECOND problem (think
they more standardized now), could be placed
as the manufacturers stated, (ANYWHERE in the
vehicle) ! Now days must be within 3 foot of the
OBD2 Plug (used for smogging)! At least in the
U.S. As info, Jim NN7K

Owen Duffy wrote:
That design
problem was probably fixed rather quickly.

Back in the '70s I was working on a project that saw me reading papers on
the effects of EMR on various things. Amongst the papers was one dealing
with the susceptibility of the electronic anti-skid technology introduced
on heavy transport vehicles to meet (then) newer more stingent braking
distances. The braking systems were susceptible to ingress of RF,
resulting in wheel lockups. You can imagine the results of a 22 wheeler
at highway speed when a chook alongside comes up with "Breaker, Breaker,
any taker?" and locks up most of the wheels on the transport. I read
other papers on rear wheel lockups in a certain brand of passenger
vehicle due to RF induced downshift of the (electronically controlled)
automatic transmission at highway speeds.

The EMC issue seems better understood by vehicle manufacturers today,
though you still hear of RF triggered airbag deployments from time to
time.

killing cars with high RF?
 

Not to mention the

Laser detector shield (as advertised on radio)
(Which as near as I can figure, "Modulates" the
received "radar" signal, to a LOW frequency AM
signal to a dopler radar . I.E. a "RADAR
Caliberator" ! Banned in 6 states! Jim


Tom Ring wrote:
KE5MBX wrote:

Where the heck do you get a 3cm transmitter, though? ha.


http://www.downeastmicrowave.com/

And you can easily do 200KM on 200 mW, or 1000 KM per watt with a Dish
Network (or equivalent) antenna on 10G SSB forward scatter.

tom
K0TAR

killing cars with high RF?
 

Scott wrote:

Uh, not quite. While the X Band police radars are at 10.525 GHz, the
ham band is only from 10.000 to 10.500 GHz. Plus, pulse modulation is
not allowed on the 3cm band. We CAN use MCW, phone, image, RTTY, data,
SS, and test modulations. Hmmm, I wonder about plain old vanilla CW???
I don't see it mentioned...maybe "data" covers that nowadays (and with
a bandwidth limit of 100 KHz, we could smoke along at a LOT of WPM!!).

Scott
N0EDV

CW is almost always used for beaconing to align antennas. SSB is then
often used for the contact, however CW is used if it is marginal. Just
like HF, VHF and UHF contests. The major difference is that the
transmitter will often drift a couple hundred hertz during the QSO. ;)

I have a few audio clips from the 10G cumulative contest last fall. If
anyone is interested I will email you a link.

Also see the article in this months QST by Jon Platt, W0ZQ.

tom
K0TAR

killing cars with high RF?
 

"Nate Bargmann" wrote in message

If something is sensitive to RF, it probably won't take much to cause it
to malfunction.


True. One time I was testing VHF antennas at 5 watts output in a quiet
garage. I kept hearing a clicking noise every time I keyed up. I traced
it to an analog multimeter on my bench. I was pegging the poor meter from
about ten feet away.

killing cars with high RF?
 

I installed an Icom 2000 into my Commodore, a 92 VP sedan with a V6 engine,
and everytime I keyed the mike at full TX power the engine would stall,
whether at idle or on the road, very disconcerting!
I cured the problem by re-routing the coaxial cable away from the computer.
VK2KCE

"Nate Bargmann" wrote in message
et...
: It doesn't take much. Back in the early '90s a group of us were returning
: from a hamfest and I was riding in the back seat of one guy's late '80s
: Ford something or other (Crown Victoria, maybe?). I was using my HT to
: talk to the other car on 2m and the driver noticed that his cruise control
: was gaining speed and when I unkeyed it settled down. Once I figured out
: it was my HT causing it, loads of fun ensued.
:
: If something is sensitive to RF, it probably won't take much to cause it
: to malfunction. The fact is that nobody does RF shielding or protection
: for consumer electronics, so there is no set power limit below which a
: device may not be affected.
:
: - Nate
:
: --
:
: "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds,
: the pessimist fears this is true."

killing cars with high RF?
 

"Stefan Wolfe" wrote in
:


"KE5MBX" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi,
What's all this business I hear people talking about blasting
people's car stereos or killing cars altogether with high-power RF? I
run 2m, 10m, and 11m in my jeep and I'd like to sort out the fact
from the legend and find out what kind of power I can use without
risking damage to my jeep or cars around me. At what power level is
front-end overload to a nearby radio likely? At what power level is
damage likely, and to what componets?

I am currently using only 50 watts on a 5/8 wave (2m), 25w on a 1/4
wave (10m), legal 4w on a 1/4 wave (11m)

Thanks,
Nelson KE5MBX


I think over 100W you may have problems with HF and VHF. It can be a
problem.

One thing that works real well is to transmit near the x-ray radar
band where you have privileges. The traffic may slow down a bit as you
set off the radar detectors :-)

Yeah, and it REALLY lights up the detector detectors....


--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667