Modeling the effect of a tower
 

How do you guys model the parasitic effects of
a tower? With its base in concrete, it is neither
floating nor grounded. Is there some sort of
modeling rule for such?

For instance, if a vertical with sloping radials
is mounted on a tower with the radials insulated
from the tower, the tower still has an effect.
If we model the tower as mininec grounded, it has
some extreme effects which may not be realistic.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Modeling the effect of a tower
 

Cecil Moore wrote in news:6F0Ih.1335$FG1.829
@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net:

How do you guys model the parasitic effects of
a tower? With its base in concrete, it is neither
floating nor grounded. Is there some sort of
modeling rule for such?

For instance, if a vertical with sloping radials
is mounted on a tower with the radials insulated
from the tower, the tower still has an effect.
If we model the tower as mininec grounded, it has
some extreme effects which may not be realistic.

I know that some assert that a metal tower structure in concrete
foundations is effectively earthed for lightning protection, wouldn't you
also have some form of additional lightning protection that the RF effects
would be important to include in your model?

Owen

Modeling the effect of a tower
 

Owen Duffy wrote:
I know that some assert that a metal tower structure in concrete
foundations is effectively earthed for lightning protection, wouldn't you
also have some form of additional lightning protection that the RF effects
would be important to include in your model?

I have no additional lightning protection. I just want
to gather thoughts on modeling a concrete based tower
located within the fields of an antenna. Modeling it
connected to mininec ground just doesn't seem to provide
realistic results.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Modeling the effect of a tower
 

Cecil Moore wrote:
How do you guys model the parasitic effects of
a tower? With its base in concrete, it is neither
floating nor grounded. Is there some sort of
modeling rule for such?

For instance, if a vertical with sloping radials
is mounted on a tower with the radials insulated
from the tower, the tower still has an effect.
If we model the tower as mininec grounded, it has
some extreme effects which may not be realistic.

I'll be a bit glib here..

I wouldn't use mininec to model it, just because it doesn't do a good
job for those sorts of things.

Hie thee to NEC4, which is specifically designed to deal with antennas
near, on, touching, partially and fully immersed in the ground.

And even then, you can get bitten.

in practical terms, the impedance to "ground" of a concrete base is very
low.. large contact area with the soil, reasonably good conductivity of
the concrete itself (compared to soil, and especially compared to air).

if that level of subtle detail is important, you need some sort of
Finite element or finite differences code.

When I want to assess the sensitivity with something like NEC, I start
by just modeling the "widget" with a single wire, or maybe, a few wires.
Then, see how much difference it makes to change that simplified model
a bit (maybe move it a few inches or change the length a bit). if it
doesn't make much difference, there's not much interaction, and the
inaccuracy of the simple model will be small.