Best Yagi impedance
 

Hi to all,

I read somewhere that, in the case of Yagis, ''in the range of 25-35
Ohm you get the
best balance between gain, pattern, bandwidth and element currents.'''

Is that true? And if so, I would like to have the theoretical
explanation behind this.

Thanks and 73 de Pierre

Best Yagi impedance
 

Sorry, there's no theoretical basis for declaring what the "best
balance" of those parameters is. So there's no theoretical basis for
deciding what the feedpoint impedance will be for the "best balance".

But. . .

If the Yagi impedance is very low, it indicates very strong coupling
between elements and high element currents. This indicates a sharply
tuned antenna which might have high gain if the losses are minimized,
but also narrow bandwidth. This is a common result of trying to squeeze
too much gain from too small an antenna. To understand why, try googling
"super gain" or "supergain" antennas or look this topic up in an antenna
text.

If the Yagi impedance is high -- close to that of a dipole -- it means
that there's very little coupling from the driven element to the
parasitic elements. Consequently, the parasitic elements won't have much
current with which to produce fields, and they won't do much. The
antenna won't have much gain relative to a dipole, and its pattern won't
be much different from a dipole.

So while a Yagi having an impedance outside very roughly the 25 - 35 ohm
range can still perform well in one or more respects, you should look
carefully at it to see what tradeoffs have been made.

Of course, this applies only to the resonant feedpoint resistance at the
center of the driven element, which can be transformed over quite a wide
range by various structures and networks.

Finally, the above comments are pretty broad generalizations, so they're
subject to numerous exceptions. But they're a good starting point for
understanding some basic properties of Yagis, and hold often enough to
be reasonable rules of thumb.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

ve2pid wrote:
Hi to all,

I read somewhere that, in the case of Yagis, ''in the range of 25-35
Ohm you get the
best balance between gain, pattern, bandwidth and element currents.'''

Is that true? And if so, I would like to have the theoretical
explanation behind this.

Thanks and 73 de Pierre

Best Yagi impedance
 

"ve2pid" wrote in news:1174098010.745176.35010
@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com:

Hi to all,

I read somewhere that, in the case of Yagis, ''in the range of 25-35
Ohm you get the
best balance between gain, pattern, bandwidth and element currents.'''

Is that true? And if so, I would like to have the theoretical
explanation behind this.

I don't understand why there is such a relationship, if there is.

Yagis are often designed for a feedpoint impedance that is relatively
easily transformed to 50 ohms for the main transmission line.

A quarter wave transformer from 28 ohms to 50 ohms is relatively easily
made from two parallel 75 ohm lines. Perhaps that is the attraction to
the impedance range you mention.

Owen

Best Yagi impedance
 

Owen Duffy wrote:
"ve2pid" wrote in news:1174098010.745176.35010
:

Hi to all,

I read somewhere that, in the case of Yagis, ''in the range of 25-35
Ohm you get the
best balance between gain, pattern, bandwidth and element currents.'''

Is that true? And if so, I would like to have the theoretical
explanation behind this.

I don't understand why there is such a relationship, if there is.

I don't think there is such a relationship either. The feedpoint
impedance is part of the results from the design process, along with the
gain, pattern and beamwidth; but it does not determine any of those
other properties.

The so-called "best balance" between all these properties will depend
entirely on the personal priorities of the designer or the user.
(Antenna optimization software demands very clear instructions about
this, and forces you to think very hard about what you really mean by
"best".)

Many good designs do have a feedpoint impedance in that 25-35 ohms
region; but so do some real lemons, too, so it isn't a reliable
indicator.

As Roy says, yagis with much lower feedpoint impedances tend to have
high internal (I^2*R) losses, which increase rapidly as the impedance
falls and element currents rise. Those can be classified as poor
designs, simply because there are plenty of better alternatives.

Also, it is possible with many designs to increase the feedpoint
impedance towards 50 ohms by adding a director at very close spacing
(about 0.05 wl). That director has relatively little effect on other
performance parameters, so it can be added fairly late in the design
process as a means of matching. (After construction, that close-spaced
director also allows final adjustment of the matching, by bending the
ends towards or away from the driven element.)


Yagis are often designed for a feedpoint impedance that is relatively
easily transformed to 50 ohms for the main transmission line.

A quarter wave transformer from 28 ohms to 50 ohms is relatively easily
made from two parallel 75 ohm lines. Perhaps that is the attraction to
the impedance range you mention.

That is a very reasonable strategy: if the impedance comes somewhere
close to a convenient value for matching, then optimize it to exactly
that value.

For example, DK7ZB has developed a range of yagi designs optimized for
28 ohms. There are links to these and several other designs from:
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek/diy-yagi/index.htm


--

73 from Ian GM3SEK 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek

Best Yagi impedance
 

"Roy Lewallen" wrote

Sorry, there's no theoretical basis for declaring what the "best balance"
of those parameters is. So there's no theoretical basis for deciding what
the feedpoint impedance will be for the "best balance".

But. . .

If the Yagi impedance is very low, it indicates very strong coupling
between elements and high element currents. This indicates a sharply tuned
antenna which might have high gain if the losses are minimized, but also
narrow bandwidth. This is a common result of trying to squeeze too much
gain from too small an antenna. To understand why, try googling "super
gain" or "supergain" antennas or look this topic up in an antenna text.

If the Yagi impedance is high -- close to that of a dipole -- it means
that there's very little coupling from the driven element to the parasitic
elements. Consequently, the parasitic elements won't have much current
with which to produce fields, and they won't do much. The antenna won't
have much gain relative to a dipole, and its pattern won't be much
different from a dipole.

So while a Yagi having an impedance outside very roughly the 25 - 35 ohm
range can still perform well in one or more respects, you should look
carefully at it to see what tradeoffs have been made.


When we design antennas, we try to optimize the design for desired gain,
F/B, bandwidth. The impedance is secondary consideration, we can match it to
the feedline, but any transformation, matching adds losses. All the
parameters are interdependent and we can always try to aim for the best
desired compromise. In a typical Yagi, as Roy indicated we end up with range
of impedances that are appropriate for particular design.

I realized that Yagi has low impedance and I generally do not like any
matching and introducing unnecessary loses. The way for maximum gain, clean
pattern, great F/B, 50 ohm feedpoint impedance and no matching gizmos to me
was to go Quad and Quad/Yagi element combinations. Quads have higher
impedance and by adding elements, the impedance would drop to around 50
ohms.
My design goals were to in order of priorities: close to 50 ohms impedance,
best possible clean pattern and F/B, broad bandwidth and maximum gain. I
prefer better pattern over max gain. In order to get max gain one can tweak
the design for about +- 1 dB, while differences in major vs. minor lobes can
be in order of 10s dBs, which means much better S/N ratio and capability to
dig weak signals.
The results was series of designs from 3 el Quad, through 5 el. Razor (3Q, 2
Y), to 7 (8, 10 ) element Razors with log cell driven element and quad and
yagi parasitic elements, while achieving 50 ohm feedpoint.
I would not claim that 50 ohm was the indicative of best performance design
and should be considered "rule" for design, but that I managed to optimize
the arrays for best performance and minimum loses while achieving 50 ohms.
Later, when I wanted to further improve the designs or check them in
software modeling (the original designs were done on 2m antenna test range)
and started with 3 el Quad comparison and optimization, the results were off
and I did not get the chance to go back and follow the process in soft and
hard modeling and see where the discrepancies are.
Pictures of my 15m 7 el. stacked Log Razors are at
http://www.k3bu.us/razor_beams.htm
showing the 7 el. design having Yagi Reflector, Quad Reflector, dual Quad
driven log cell, Quad Director and two Yagi directors. Impedance was 50 ohms
and SWR 1:1.1 at the band edges. In real life, the Razors were head and
shoulders above the Yagi variety and helped me to cream bunch of world
records from VE3BMV.
So I guess the lesson is, one can achieve desired compromise and use any of
the design parameters as priority and work around, but there are limitations
as what would be the results. Back to Yagi, as Roy outlined, You could have
50 ohm dipole like Yagi (lousy F/B and gain, but "good" impedance and match)
or great pattern and gain at the price of lower impedance and some lossy
matching, which still outweighs the former.

73 Yuri, K3BU

Best Yagi impedance
 

"Yuri Blanarovich" wrote in
:

....
I realized that Yagi has low impedance and I generally do not like any
matching and introducing unnecessary loses. The way for maximum gain,
clean pattern, great F/B, 50 ohm feedpoint impedance and no matching
gizmos to me was to go Quad and Quad/Yagi element combinations. Quads
have higher impedance and by adding elements, the impedance would drop
to around 50 ohms.

Yuri, that is your approach, but it is not the only one.

Others of us quantify the expected transformation losses, and add them into
the gain equation to deal with the effects, making a design selection on a
rational basis rather that just excluding a whole bunch of solutions
because of a prejudice about matching loss.

Owen

Best Yagi impedance
 

On Mar 17, 1:22 am, Ian White GM3SEK wrote:
Owen Duffy wrote:
"ve2pid" wrote in news:1174098010.745176.35010
:

Hi to all,

I read somewhere that, in the case of Yagis, ''in the range of 25-35
Ohm you get the
best balance between gain, pattern, bandwidth and element currents.'''

Is that true? And if so, I would like to have the theoretical
explanation behind this.

I don't understand why there is such a relationship, if there is.

I don't think there is such a relationship either. The feedpoint
impedance is part of the results from the design process, along with the
gain, pattern and beamwidth; but it does not determine any of those
other properties.

The so-called "best balance" between all these properties will depend
entirely on the personal priorities of the designer or the user.
(Antenna optimization software demands very clear instructions about
this, and forces you to think very hard about what you really mean by
"best".)

Hmmm. Interesting comments considering below.


Many good designs do have a feedpoint impedance in that 25-35 ohms
region; but so do some real lemons, too, so it isn't a reliable
indicator.

As Roy says, yagis with much lower feedpoint impedances tend to have
high internal (I^2*R) losses, which increase rapidly as the impedance
falls and element currents rise. Those can be classified as poor
designs, simply because there are plenty of better alternatives.

Also, it is possible with many designs to increase the feedpoint
impedance towards 50 ohms by adding a director at very close spacing
(about 0.05 wl). That director has relatively little effect on other
performance parameters, so it can be added fairly late in the design
process as a means of matching. (After construction, that close-spaced
director also allows final adjustment of the matching, by bending the
ends towards or away from the driven element.)

Yagis are often designed for a feedpoint impedance that is relatively
easily transformed to 50 ohms for the main transmission line.

A quarter wave transformer from 28 ohms to 50 ohms is relatively easily
made from two parallel 75 ohm lines. Perhaps that is the attraction to
the impedance range you mention.

That is a very reasonable strategy: if the impedance comes somewhere
close to a convenient value for matching, then optimize it to exactly
that value.

For example, DK7ZB has developed a range of yagi designs optimized for
28 ohms.

And there he says: "For the VHF-Bands (50-50.5MHz, 144-146MHz,
430-440MHz) a radiation resistance of 25-30Ohm has the best balance
for gain, back- and sidelobes, bandwidth and SWR at tenable losses."

We have come full-circle. [g]

Also, DK7ZB in describing what is clearly an unbalanced connection of
parallel lengths of coax ("Classic" match) says, "2. This line is a
simplified coaxial sleeve balun to avoid sleeve-waves on the braid of
the cable running to the station.", which it is clearly not.


There are links to these and several other designs from:http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek/diy-yagi/index.htm

--

73 from Ian GM3SEK 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek

N7WS

Best Yagi impedance
 

"Owen Duffy" wrote in message
...
"Yuri Blanarovich" wrote in
:

...
I realized that Yagi has low impedance and I generally do not like any
matching and introducing unnecessary loses. The way for maximum gain,
clean pattern, great F/B, 50 ohm feedpoint impedance and no matching
gizmos to me was to go Quad and Quad/Yagi element combinations. Quads
have higher impedance and by adding elements, the impedance would drop
to around 50 ohms.

Yuri, that is your approach, but it is not the only one.

Others of us quantify the expected transformation losses, and add them
into
the gain equation to deal with the effects, making a design selection on a
rational basis rather that just excluding a whole bunch of solutions
because of a prejudice about matching loss.

Owen

What is "irrational" with my approach finding the best configuration AND
satisfying my desire for no loss 50 ohm impedance match?
It was not prejudice but "what if I succeed" approach and after over 3
months of fiddling with variety of designs in Canadian winter/spring I
managed to find solutions avoiding matching loss, that I would have to add
another director at X spacing to compensate for.
For example my 3 el. quad, 50 ohm, no matching beat 7 el. KLM Log Yagi with
balun on 2m.
If you can come up with whole bunch of better solutions, I would be glad to
learn about them.

73, Yuri, K3BU

Best Yagi impedance
 

Wes wrote:
A quarter wave transformer from 28 ohms to 50 ohms is relatively easily
made from two parallel 75 ohm lines. Perhaps that is the attraction to
the impedance range you mention.

That is a very reasonable strategy: if the impedance comes somewhere
close to a convenient value for matching, then optimize it to exactly
that value.

For example, DK7ZB has developed a range of yagi designs optimized for
28 ohms.

And there he says: "For the VHF-Bands (50-50.5MHz, 144-146MHz,
430-440MHz) a radiation resistance of 25-30Ohm has the best balance for
gain, back- and sidelobes, bandwidth and SWR at tenable losses."

We have come full-circle. [g]

Why, so we have...

At the risk of going round again, I definitely wouldn't agree with that
statement as written. However, it is valuable to point out that 28 ohms
is one of those "convenient" impedances, which might otherwise have been
overlooked.


Also, DK7ZB in describing what is clearly an unbalanced connection of
parallel lengths of coax ("Classic" match) says, "2. This line is a
simplified coaxial sleeve balun to avoid sleeve-waves on the braid of
the cable running to the station.", which it is clearly not.

Agreed. However, there is an alternative for 50MHz because the
paralleled quarter-wave sections are a convenient length to be coiled up
to make a small, neat choke.

I had a 3-element 50MHz beam which had been thrown together using
existing gamma match parts, but it was picking up a lot of noise and
crud - on surprising on thinking about it, because the coax shield, the
boom and the mast were all connected together and acting as an antenna
for local noise. Since the feedpoint impedance happened to be about 28
ohms, it was very easy to convert it to a fully balanced feed with a
choke, and all the noise problems went away.


There are links to these and several other designs from:http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek/diy-yagi/index.htm


--

73 from Ian GM3SEK 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek

Best Yagi impedance
 

Ian White GM3SEK wrote:
I had a 3-element 50MHz beam which had been thrown together using
existing gamma match parts, but it was picking up a lot of noise and
crud - on surprising on thinking about it, because the coax shield, the
boom and the mast were all connected together and acting as an antenna
for local noise.

Sorry, made a t6po. That should read: "NOT surprising, on thinking
about it."


--

73 from Ian GM3SEK

Best Yagi impedance
 

On Mar 17, 2:22 am, Ian White GM3SEK wrote:


Also, it is possible with many designs to increase the feedpoint
impedance towards 50 ohms by adding a director at very close spacing
(about 0.05 wl). That director has relatively little effect on other
performance parameters, so it can be added fairly late in the design
process as a means of matching. (After construction, that close-spaced
director also allows final adjustment of the matching, by bending the
ends towards or away from the driven element.)


The cushcraft A4S yagi I have is designed to have a 50 ohm feed.
It's not half bad for a tribander.. So I think it's possible to have
fairly decent gain and f/b with such a design.
In the manual, they claim 25 db f/b and 8.9 dbd forward gain.
Of course, the gain they claim may be a tad optimistic, but
in using it, it does seem to do ok. We won 10m fone using
at field day about 5 years ago.
I've designed many yagi's using modeling, but can't remember
how many I've done that were designed to have a 50 ohm
feed.. I think I've done a few though.
In most all cases, I design the yagi for what I want in gain and
f/b, and then worry about the matching later. The only
exception might be if I showed a very low Z, which might
add extra matching losses. If you design for max gain, the
feedpoint Z will usually be quite a bit lower than 50 ohms.
I think as long as you are no lower than 10-12 ohms or so,
the losses in matching are fairly low. An NBS yagi shows
appx 12 ohms or so, and I've never noticed any large loss in
feeding one even using a simple gamma match.
The cushcraft A4S uses no matching device at all.
You just roll up some coax for a choke, or add a 1:1 balun.
I use the choke myself..
MK

Best Yagi impedance
 

Some comments on the 25-35Ohm range for the impedance of Yagis, which
has VE2PID from my website. Without further details this makes indeed
no sense to say this would be the best for Yagis.

1. You must differ between short Yagis and Longyagis.
2. You must know for what bandwidth the Yagis should be designed.
3. A given result you can reach with a nearly infinite number of
changed parameters.

For short Yagis and the bands 14-1,35MHz, 21-21,45MHz, reduced 10m-
Band from 28-28,8MHz, and for 144-146MHz a low impedance (10-15Ohm)
does not cover the entire band, but gives high gain. A high impedance
with 50Ohm gives away to much gain for a to high bandwidth. For
example a 3-Element-Yagi with 50Ohm direct feed cannot reach more than
5,5dBd. The reasons therefore are pointed out by Roy, W7EL in his
comments about element coupling and element currents.

For the enumerated bands the impedance of 25-35Ohms is indeed the best
for a good balance of gain, pattern and bandwidth. By adding a close
spaced D1 for 50 Ohms you can reach similiar results, but why doing
that? For more weight and additional mechanical problems?
It is better to match the impedance to 50Ohm than to add more elements
for rising the impedance!

For Longyagis the problems are more difficult. You must see the
radiator, D1 and D2 as a unit (radiation center) in a Yagi system. The
very close spaced D1 in a 50Ohm-feeding system acts like an "open-
sleeve-element" and has higher currents than the radiator. The
interaction between these elements can reduce the bandwidth
dramatically, because -j and +j of the impedance increase very fast if
you leave the center frequency.
It is interesting but a fact: You can replace the 50-Ohm-radiator and
a close spaced D1 in several Longyagi systems by one radiating element
with lower impedance and greater bandwidth.
Evolutionary algorithms for optimizing Longyagis find more lower
impedances than 50Ohm for a given gain, pattern and bandwidth. The
matching "by hand" with the close spaced D1 (as Ian, G3SEK writes) in
the finishing construction process is possible but no must.

73 de Martin, DK7ZB

Best Yagi impedance
 

On 17 Mar, 20:41, Owen Duffy wrote:
"Yuri Blanarovich" wrote :

...

I realized that Yagi has low impedance and I generally do not like any
matching and introducing unnecessary loses. The way for maximum gain,
clean pattern, great F/B, 50 ohm feedpoint impedance and no matching
gizmos to me was to go Quad and Quad/Yagi element combinations. Quads
have higher impedance and by adding elements, the impedance would drop
to around 50 ohms.

Yuri, that is your approach, but it is not the only one.

Others of us quantify the expected transformation losses, and add them into
the gain equation to deal with the effects, making a design selection on a
rational basis rather that just excluding a whole bunch of solutions
because of a prejudice about matching loss.

Owen


Owen
I agree. Amateurs and probably some professionals place to much weight
on total antenna gain as opposed to maximum gain of the required
polarity and frankly polarity is always of primary importance for all
antennas. This rationality also include the attainment of less
required compromises with other factors when dealing with bandwidth
(per the above comments referncing matching.) Compromises with respect
to the design of yagi antennas is extensively described in most ARRL
publications and are best avoided.
Art

Best Yagi impedance
 

"art" wrote in message
oups.com...
On 17 Mar, 20:41, Owen Duffy wrote:
"Yuri Blanarovich" wrote
:

...

I realized that Yagi has low impedance and I generally do not like any
matching and introducing unnecessary loses. The way for maximum gain,
clean pattern, great F/B, 50 ohm feedpoint impedance and no matching
gizmos to me was to go Quad and Quad/Yagi element combinations. Quads
have higher impedance and by adding elements, the impedance would drop
to around 50 ohms.

Yuri, that is your approach, but it is not the only one.

Others of us quantify the expected transformation losses, and add them
into
the gain equation to deal with the effects, making a design selection on
a
rational basis rather that just excluding a whole bunch of solutions
because of a prejudice about matching loss.

Owen


Owen
I agree. Amateurs and probably some professionals place to much weight
on total antenna gain as opposed to maximum gain of the required
polarity and frankly polarity is always of primary importance for all
antennas. This rationality also include the attainment of less
required compromises with other factors when dealing with bandwidth
(per the above comments referncing matching.) Compromises with respect
to the design of yagi antennas is extensively described in most ARRL
publications and are best avoided.
Art

Best Yagi impedance
 

"art" wrote in message

Owen
I agree. Amateurs and probably some professionals place to much weight
on total antenna gain as opposed to maximum gain of the required
polarity and frankly polarity is always of primary importance for all
antennas. This rationality also include the attainment of less
required compromises with other factors when dealing with bandwidth
(per the above comments referncing matching.) Compromises with respect
to the design of yagi antennas is extensively described in most ARRL
publications and are best avoided.
Art

OK, genius, what is POLARITY and how did we manage to ignore it over the
century plus of fiddling with antennas?
I promise to always use PLUS or POSITIVE polarity, never to engage any
NEGATIVE, which would be detrimental to Gaussian jambalaya.

Yuri, K3BU

Best Yagi impedance
 

On 2 Apr, 07:54, "Yuri Blanarovich" wrote:
"art" wrote in message
Owen
I agree. Amateurs and probably some professionals place to much weight
on total antenna gain as opposed to maximum gain of the required
polarity and frankly polarity is always of primary importance for all
antennas. This rationality also include the attainment of less
required compromises with other factors when dealing with bandwidth
(per the above comments referncing matching.) Compromises with respect
to the design of yagi antennas is extensively described in most ARRL
publications and are best avoided.
Art

OK, genius, what is POLARITY and how did we manage to ignore it over the
century plus of fiddling with antennas?
I promise to always use PLUS or POSITIVE polarity, never to engage any
NEGATIVE, which would be detrimental to Gaussian jambalaya.

Yuri, K3BU

Yuri, If you don't understand the foibles of polarization then the
search
for gain alone is pointless

Best Yagi impedance
 

"art" wrote in message
ps.com...
On 2 Apr, 07:54, "Yuri Blanarovich" wrote:
"art" wrote in message
Owen
I agree. Amateurs and probably some professionals place to much weight
on total antenna gain as opposed to maximum gain of the required
polarity and frankly polarity is always of primary importance for all
antennas. This rationality also include the attainment of less
required compromises with other factors when dealing with bandwidth
(per the above comments referncing matching.) Compromises with respect
to the design of yagi antennas is extensively described in most ARRL
publications and are best avoided.
Art

OK, genius, what is POLARITY and how did we manage to ignore it over the
century plus of fiddling with antennas?
I promise to always use PLUS or POSITIVE polarity, never to engage any
NEGATIVE, which would be detrimental to Gaussian jambalaya.

Yuri, K3BU

Yuri, If you don't understand the foibles of polarization then the
search
for gain alone is pointless


Bunch of hooey! Have you heard of moonbounce and satellite antennas?

Art, if you can't read or you don't know what you write, then your
"communicating" here is pointless.

You wrote and queried POLARITY and you "don't understand me" with
POLARIZATION. Elementary my dear Watson!

I have doubts that you really understand antenna polarization, pattern
forming, ground effects and reality of RF signals propagating and antenna
role in their generation and interception.

Yuri, K3BU.us

Best Yagi impedance
 

On 2 Apr, 10:45, "Yuri Blanarovich" wrote:
"art" wrote in message

ps.com...





On 2 Apr, 07:54, "Yuri Blanarovich" wrote:
"art" wrote in message
Owen
I agree. Amateurs and probably some professionals place to much weight
on total antenna gain as opposed to maximum gain of the required
polarity and frankly polarity is always of primary importance for all
antennas. This rationality also include the attainment of less
required compromises with other factors when dealing with bandwidth
(per the above comments referncing matching.) Compromises with respect
to the design of yagi antennas is extensively described in most ARRL
publications and are best avoided.
Art

OK, genius, what is POLARITY and how did we manage to ignore it over the
century plus of fiddling with antennas?
I promise to always use PLUS or POSITIVE polarity, never to engage any
NEGATIVE, which would be detrimental to Gaussian jambalaya.

Yuri, K3BU

Yuri, If you don't understand the foibles of polarization then the
search
for gain alone is pointless

Bunch of hooey! Have you heard of moonbounce and satellite antennas?

Art, if you can't read or you don't know what you write, then your
"communicating" here is pointless.

You wrote and queried POLARITY and you "don't understand me" with
POLARIZATION. Elementary my dear Watson!

I have doubts that you really understand antenna polarization, pattern
forming, ground effects and reality of RF signals propagating and antenna
role in their generation and interception.

Yuri, K3BU.us- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Fine, thus there is no need for you to ask questions of me. You can go
back to the previous posting from which this question arose and ask
your questions of Owen. He is one of the most knoweledgable persons in
the bunch
and he responded to you.
Art

Best Yagi impedance
 

"art" wrote in message
oups.com...
On 2 Apr, 10:45, "Yuri Blanarovich" wrote:
"art" wrote in message

ps.com...





On 2 Apr, 07:54, "Yuri Blanarovich" wrote:
"art" wrote in message
Owen
I agree. Amateurs and probably some professionals place to much
weight
on total antenna gain as opposed to maximum gain of the required
polarity and frankly polarity is always of primary importance for
all
antennas. This rationality also include the attainment of less
required compromises with other factors when dealing with bandwidth
(per the above comments referncing matching.) Compromises with
respect
to the design of yagi antennas is extensively described in most
ARRL
publications and are best avoided.
Art

OK, genius, what is POLARITY and how did we manage to ignore it over
the
century plus of fiddling with antennas?
I promise to always use PLUS or POSITIVE polarity, never to engage any
NEGATIVE, which would be detrimental to Gaussian jambalaya.

Yuri, K3BU

Yuri, If you don't understand the foibles of polarization then the
search
for gain alone is pointless

Bunch of hooey! Have you heard of moonbounce and satellite antennas?

Art, if you can't read or you don't know what you write, then your
"communicating" here is pointless.

You wrote and queried POLARITY and you "don't understand me" with
POLARIZATION. Elementary my dear Watson!

I have doubts that you really understand antenna polarization, pattern
forming, ground effects and reality of RF signals propagating and antenna
role in their generation and interception.

Yuri, K3BU.us- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Fine, thus there is no need for you to ask questions of me. You can go
back to the previous posting from which this question arose and ask
your questions of Owen. He is one of the most knoweledgable persons in
the bunch
and he responded to you.
Art


I asked about POLARITY you mentioned and you answer with crapola.
If you don't know difference between polarity and polarization, or between
reflector and director, then your confusing ramblings are just that.

Sayonara!

We sorted out Owens comments in case you are behind reading.

73 Yuri, K3BU

Best Yagi impedance
 

"Yuri Blanarovich" wrote in message
...

"art" wrote in message
oups.com...
On 2 Apr, 10:45, "Yuri Blanarovich" wrote:
"art" wrote in message

ps.com...





On 2 Apr, 07:54, "Yuri Blanarovich" wrote:
"art" wrote in message
Owen
I agree. Amateurs and probably some professionals place to much
weight
on total antenna gain as opposed to maximum gain of the required
polarity and frankly polarity is always of primary importance
for
all
antennas. This rationality also include the attainment of less
required compromises with other factors when dealing with
bandwidth
(per the above comments referncing matching.) Compromises with
respect
to the design of yagi antennas is extensively described in most
ARRL
publications and are best avoided.
Art

OK, genius, what is POLARITY and how did we manage to ignore it over
the
century plus of fiddling with antennas?
I promise to always use PLUS or POSITIVE polarity, never to engage
any
NEGATIVE, which would be detrimental to Gaussian jambalaya.

Yuri, K3BU

Yuri, If you don't understand the foibles of polarization then the
search
for gain alone is pointless

Bunch of hooey! Have you heard of moonbounce and satellite antennas?

Art, if you can't read or you don't know what you write, then your
"communicating" here is pointless.

You wrote and queried POLARITY and you "don't understand me" with
POLARIZATION. Elementary my dear Watson!

I have doubts that you really understand antenna polarization, pattern
forming, ground effects and reality of RF signals propagating and
antenna
role in their generation and interception.

Yuri, K3BU.us- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Fine, thus there is no need for you to ask questions of me. You can go
back to the previous posting from which this question arose and ask
your questions of Owen. He is one of the most knoweledgable persons in
the bunch
and he responded to you.
Art


I asked about POLARITY you mentioned and you answer with crapola.
If you don't know difference between polarity and polarization, or between
reflector and director, then your confusing ramblings are just that.

Sayonara!

We sorted out Owens comments in case you are behind reading.

73 Yuri, K3BU

Best Yagi impedance
 

"Yuri Blanarovich" wrote in message
...


Art, if you can't read or you don't know what you write, then your
"communicating" here is pointless.

You wrote and queried POLARITY and you "don't understand me" with
POLARIZATION. Elementary my dear Watson!

I have doubts that you really understand antenna polarization, pattern
forming, ground effects and reality of RF signals propagating and antenna
role in their generation and interception.

Yuri, K3BU.us



Sorry for the previous blank reply posting.

A polarization story, if I may. At Field Day a few years ago, I decided to
try a few 446 MHz calls to add to the fifty-some 2m QSOs I had logged. I
got bupkus for an hour's work. I tried a local repeater and got a similar
nothing, so I concluded my radio had quit. No, I had the yagi antenna
horizontal. I had been playing at home with UHF TV and I simply translated
the orientation of the TV yagis to my 70cm yagi. Dumb! Everything was fine
except for my being cross-polarized with the rest of the 70cm FM universe.

I understand that SSB'ers are horizontal on VHF/UHF; if I ever get an
allmode, I'll have to remember that.