RadioBanter - H F Antenna - BWD-90 VS G5RV

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H F Antenna - BWD-90 VS G5RV

I'm still trying to decide on a ready-made HF antenna. I have a couple more
questions.

Can the Barker & Williamson's BWD-90 really be used without an antenna
tuner?

Does the G5RV really need an antenna tuner?

Wow, there's a 7:1 price difference here! Hope to be QSOing soon, instead
of emailing.

--
Bob D. ND9B

H F Antenna - BWD-90 VS G5RV

Bob D. wrote:
Can the Barker & Williamson's BWD-90 really be used without an antenna
tuner?

Any antenna can be equipped with a resistor that will
dissipate so much RF energy that a tuner is not required.
A dummy load will do the same thing. One review of the
BWD-90 says it is the biggest air-cooled dummy load in
the world.

http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/1016

Does the G5RV really need an antenna tuner?

Yes, unless you install a resistor at the coax/twinlead
junction.

http://www.vk1od.net/G5RV/
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

H F Antenna - BWD-90 VS G5RV

On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:12:26 -0400, Bob D. wrote:

Can the Barker & Williamson's BWD-90 really be used without an antenna
tuner?

Good afternoon, Bob.

I agree with Chuck and Cecil. The B&Ws are radiating dummy loads, nothing
more.

One time, I was on a 75-meter net with another station about 15 miles from
me, and several other stations elsewhere in the state, as far as 150 miles
away. The other station (the one 15 miles away) was running 100 watts and
a B&W at 25 feet. I was running a grand total of FIVE (5) watts and a cut
dipole at 20 feet. My 5 watts was reported as stronger than the other
station's 100 watts.

I read another report in this newsgroup from another amateur who said
pretty much the same thing except in his case it was a MARS net, I think,
somewhere above the top end of 75 meters.

For the price of a B&W, or perhaps just a bit more, you can buy
the materials to make an 80-meter dipole fed with ladder line, and an
autotuner e.g. from LDG that will let you run that antenna on 80 through
10.

That's what I would recommend if you want easy and relatively inexpensive
multiband operation.

H F Antenna - BWD-90 VS G5RV

Rick (W-A-one-R-K-T) wrote:
On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:12:26 -0400, Bob D. wrote:

Can the Barker & Williamson's BWD-90 really be used without an antenna
tuner?

Good afternoon, Bob.

I agree with Chuck and Cecil. The B&Ws are radiating dummy loads, nothing
more.

One time, I was on a 75-meter net with another station about 15 miles from
me, and several other stations elsewhere in the state, as far as 150 miles
away. The other station (the one 15 miles away) was running 100 watts and
a B&W at 25 feet. I was running a grand total of FIVE (5) watts and a cut
dipole at 20 feet. My 5 watts was reported as stronger than the other
station's 100 watts.

I read another report in this newsgroup from another amateur who said
pretty much the same thing except in his case it was a MARS net, I think,
somewhere above the top end of 75 meters.

For the price of a B&W, or perhaps just a bit more, you can buy
the materials to make an 80-meter dipole fed with ladder line, and an
autotuner e.g. from LDG that will let you run that antenna on 80 through
10.

That's what I would recommend if you want easy and relatively inexpensive
multiband operation.

Let's not overstate the case against the
B&W. Cebik's modeling shows a ~6 dB
penalty for the 90' B&W at 6 MHz and
above, while at 4 MHz, it is more like
12 dB, which is very roughly
commensurate with your anecdotal report.

Obviously, one does not endure such
losses without countervailing benefits
which, in this case, are superb
frequency agility, simplicity, and
reliability.

While I wouldn't own one, others do.

Chuck, NT3G

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H F Antenna - BWD-90 VS G5RV

I used the B&W for a while here, and find the AlphaDelta DX-CC Works better
and can handle the Amplifier.. BEWARE the ratings on the B&W!..
The antenna is good to 250W RTTY or full duty use, and 500W Voice..
Spend your money on a Different antenna!..
N8NOE-Jeff

Bob D. wrote:
Can the Barker & Williamson's BWD-90 really be used without an antenna
tuner?

Any antenna can be equipped with a resistor that will
dissipate so much RF energy that a tuner is not required.
A dummy load will do the same thing. One review of the
BWD-90 says it is the biggest air-cooled dummy load in
the world.

http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/1016

Does the G5RV really need an antenna tuner?

Yes, unless you install a resistor at the coax/twinlead
junction.

http://www.vk1od.net/G5RV/

H F Antenna - BWD-90 VS G5RV

Bob D. wrote:
I'm still trying to decide on a ready-made HF antenna. I have a couple more
questions.

Can the Barker & Williamson's BWD-90 really be used without an antenna
tuner?

Does the G5RV really need an antenna tuner?

Wow, there's a 7:1 price difference here! Hope to be QSOing soon, instead
of emailing.

The B&W (and all of the essentially identical antennas which are a
folded dipole of some sort with a big resistor) are an interesting
solution to a system engineering problem. Sure, they're hideously
inefficient, but, they don't require a tuner, and if you're not power
limited, you can overcome the inefficiency by just turning up the amp.

It's no different than putting a 3dB pads on the ports of a mixer to
make them less sensitive to the match. You take a efficiency hit, but
you pick up overall system insensitivity to component variations, etc.

A terminated folded dipole and a broadband solid state amp is not a bad
system solution for someone who needs a broadband (2-30MHz) system that
is simple to deploy and has essentially instantaneous frequency change
ability. Hmmm.. folks with ALE or HF frequency hopping radios in a
tactical environment. And who buys these sorts of things: military and
diplomatic folks, who aren't power constrained, need fast frequency
changes and simple installation, and aren't concerned about saving every
penny. In that market, a few hundred dollars more or less makes almost
no difference.

Jim, W6RMK

H F Antenna - BWD-90 VS G5RV

Jim Lux wrote:
Bob D. wrote:
I'm still trying to decide on a ready-made HF antenna. I have a couple
more questions.

Can the Barker & Williamson's BWD-90 really be used without an antenna
tuner?

Does the G5RV really need an antenna tuner?

Wow, there's a 7:1 price difference here! Hope to be QSOing soon,
instead of emailing.

The B&W (and all of the essentially identical antennas which are a
folded dipole of some sort with a big resistor) are an interesting
solution to a system engineering problem. Sure, they're hideously
inefficient, but, they don't require a tuner, and if you're not power
limited, you can overcome the inefficiency by just turning up the amp.

It's no different than putting a 3dB pads on the ports of a mixer to
make them less sensitive to the match. You take a efficiency hit, but
you pick up overall system insensitivity to component variations, etc.

A terminated folded dipole and a broadband solid state amp is not a bad
system solution for someone who needs a broadband (2-30MHz) system that
is simple to deploy and has essentially instantaneous frequency change
ability. Hmmm.. folks with ALE or HF frequency hopping radios in a
tactical environment. And who buys these sorts of things: military and
diplomatic folks, who aren't power constrained, need fast frequency
changes and simple installation, and aren't concerned about saving every
penny. In that market, a few hundred dollars more or less makes almost
no difference.

Jim, that is an interesting - and correct - outlook on the folded
dipole. That's why it is a good solution for people who aren't
constrained in power.

For Hams, I would think it isn't a great solution, although if run at
full legal power it might be okay.

For Bob:

Don't be afraid of a tuner. Look at it as just another bit of circuitry.
Turning knobs is part of the fun of Ham radio.

That G5RV will need a tuner.

A suggestion for an antenna:

Get a ladder line fed dipole of 130 feet. I think AES sells them for
around 35 dollars or so. Use a tuner on it. If you want automation,
there are automatic tuners that will handle balanced line. MFJ makes one
for example. You'll have a nice all band antenna, if a little "lobey" on
the upper bands. And you won't have the loss of the Folded dipole.

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

H F Antenna - BWD-90 VS G5RV

"Bob D." wrote in message
m...
I'm still trying to decide on a ready-made HF antenna. I have a couple
more questions.

Can the Barker & Williamson's BWD-90 really be used without an antenna
tuner?

Does the G5RV really need an antenna tuner?

Wow, there's a 7:1 price difference here! Hope to be QSOing soon, instead
of emailing.

--
Bob D. ND9B

Just for comparison, take a look at www.k1kek.com. It's called the Cobra
Ultralite and comes in 2 versions.
73 feet and 140 feet for 80-10 coverage and 160-10 respectively. I run the
longer one with an LDG autotuner. I don't have comparative data, and I'm
not trying to argue about which antenna is "best"; just the fact that the
Cobra works decently, slightly better than the B & W and is less obtrusive.
It carries up to 1000 watts and seems to work smoothely without any
objections thru out its range. Most anything is a compromise unless it is a
resonant, dedicated antenna; it's all in what you are looking for. The
Cobra DOES want a tuner, however. Again, an opinion, but I don't like the B
& W.

73

K4KWH