Cecil Moore wrote:

...
In a nutshell, random mutations followed by survival
of the fittest. But now man can cause non-random
mutations followed by guaranteed survival of whatever
species we create no matter how unfit they might be.
Man has evolved to the point of being able to violate
the theory of evolution.
...

I find it difficult to generate a true and unwavering belief in "the
creator."

However, when confronted with the argument that a single
virus-type-thingy/cell sprang into being, by sheer chance, just a
handful of billion of years ago (I would more likely expect such a
phenomenon to take billions-of-billions-of years--if possible), with all
the programming necessary to create an end result of beings with self
awareness, and that this is some sort or "law", the fact that such is
possible ... this cell, so perfectly programmed, was able to "work
towards" multi-celled creatures ... and NO MIND WAS INVOLVED!

Well, I will tell you, long before I am even going to start making all
those guesses, assumptions, and base it all on one single case--life on
earth, I am going to seriously consider that something or some mind
designed it ... "Who made God?" Krist, who knows? But, just as likely
that God came from a cell billions-of-billions of years before
mankind--and does exist--as the possibility of sheer chance beginning
mankind and his predecessors.

However, I am a software engineer and see the sheer fantasy which is
being proposed ... NEVER would all happen "just by sheer chance! (luck?)"

And there is NO law which states, "Extremely complex structures and
lifeforms come into being by sheer luck!" There is no example which
even shows nature has a slight tendency towards such a thing. No
scientist would start basing conclusions on a single occurrence, science
only begins when you have found "repeat-ability" of the phenomenon.

I mean, I would feel like a used car salesman, even thinking about
selling that line to someone BELOW average intelligence! ...

Get real ... fairy tales are best used to amuse children ...

Regards,
JS

John Smith I wrote:
Get real ... fairy tales are best used to amuse children ...

Consider that the earth is about 4.5 billion years old
while the Milky Way galaxy may be about 12 billion years
old, not much younger than the universe itself. Some early
evolved intelligent life forms could possibly have been
seeding our galaxy for billions of years.

We are also discovering "nanobes" so small (20 nm) that
we never realized that they were alive before now. These
critters contain only about 10 DNA molecules.

http://www.nytimes.com/library/natio...e-nanobes.html
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Cecil Moore wrote:
John Smith I wrote:
Get real ... fairy tales are best used to amuse children ...

Consider that the earth is about 4.5 billion years old
while the Milky Way galaxy may be about 12 billion years
old, not much younger than the universe itself. Some early
evolved intelligent life forms could possibly have been
seeding our galaxy for billions of years.

We are also discovering "nanobes" so small (20 nm) that
we never realized that they were alive before now. These
critters contain only about 10 DNA molecules.

http://www.nytimes.com/library/natio...e-nanobes.html


Impossible in the first generation if they are carbon based, since you
need a generation of supernovas followed by star forming for that.
There would be a significant delay, very likely about as long as it took
to make us. Of course all bets are off if they are based on some other
chemical starting point.

tom
K0TAR

Tom Ring wrote:
Cecil Moore wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/library/natio...e-nanobes.html

Impossible in the first generation if they are carbon based, since you
need a generation of supernovas followed by star forming for that.

Of course, impossible in the first generation. But we
can observe the remains of supernovas that are 8 billion
years old. Supernovas probably occurred a couple of billion
years after the Big Bang. That means some other life forms
may have a 4 billion year head start on us.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Cecil Moore wrote:
John Smith I wrote:
Get real ... fairy tales are best used to amuse children ...

Consider that the earth is about 4.5 billion years old
while the Milky Way galaxy may be about 12 billion years
old, not much younger than the universe itself. Some early
evolved intelligent life forms could possibly have been
seeding our galaxy for billions of years.

We are also discovering "nanobes" so small (20 nm) that
we never realized that they were alive before now. These
critters contain only about 10 DNA molecules.

http://www.nytimes.com/library/natio...e-nanobes.html

Cecil:

There are many possibilities ...

I am just awestruck (think shock and awe here!) that so many jump on the
"evolution bandwagon"--apparently tossing logic out the window with the
bath water and the baby--even occams' razor is missing. DNA and its'
complexity, yet simplicity, is amazing, (some search this DNA for "Gods
Signature") logic leads me away from viewing it as "just happened."
Mankind appears to serve nature in no meaningful way, yet some maintain
that nature went to extraordinary means to create/evolve us ... and,
claiming that the similarity of DNA between all species "proves"
evolution. Heck, if that argument holds water, then all structures
which man has ever lived in show signs of evolution--only a handful of
materials have ever been used in the construction of buildings, notably
stone, dirt, plant material, metal and most recently plastic--DNA and
its' span across all life here only demonstrates that the same "building
materials" were used in lifes' creation(s).

One haunting phrase found in the bible, and dealing with God, and
paraphrased he "... is and always has been ..." This deals with
Gods' apparent explanation of his own beginning/existence, obviously,
one could guess, he doesn't know his creator either!

Indeed, logic would lead me to think the necessary
microbe(s)/cell(s)/virus-thingy(s) "came through" with the big bang,
perhaps an intended "life seeding" (experiment?) of this universe--maybe
that is where "heaven" is--outside this universe.

However, count on new theories/discoveries coming on down the road ...
that is something we CAN have faith in. I don't find any of the current
explanations to our existence acceptable--proof of one will correct that.

Regards,
JS

John Smith I wrote:
One haunting phrase found in the bible, and dealing with God, and
paraphrased he "... is and always has been ..." This deals with
Gods' apparent explanation of his own beginning/existence, obviously,
one could guess, he doesn't know his creator either!

People who believe in "first cause" have to grapple with
the question of "What caused God?" If God doesn't have to
have a cause, why does the universe have to have a cause? :-)

The Bible proves that God understood relativity. A day for
God (in his fast starship) is like 1000 years for man on
earth. :-) We can calculate the speed of God's starship
from that information.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Cecil Moore wrote:
John Smith I wrote:
One haunting phrase found in the bible, and dealing with God, and
paraphrased he "... is and always has been ..." This deals with
Gods' apparent explanation of his own beginning/existence, obviously,
one could guess, he doesn't know his creator either!

People who believe in "first cause" have to grapple with
the question of "What caused God?" If God doesn't have to
have a cause, why does the universe have to have a cause? :-)

The Bible proves that God understood relativity. A day for
God (in his fast starship) is like 1000 years for man on
earth. :-) We can calculate the speed of God's starship
from that information.

Its' all how 'ya look at it ...

Could be that God is living in the entangled particle universe (just
down the block a spell.) Could explain why his vision/expectation of
time seems a tad bit faster ...

I heard a rumor that the color of God is grey; and, he is alive and well
and living in Roswell, NM ... :-)

But then, another guy told me the military captured him and got him out
a Groom Lake ... ya never know, ya just never know ...

Regards,
JS

Indeed, logic would lead me to think the necessary
microbe(s)/cell(s)/virus-thingy(s) "came through" with the big bang,
perhaps an intended "life seeding" (experiment?) of this universe--maybe
that is where "heaven" is--outside this universe.

Have we considered that viruses need complex cells in order to
procreate and survive... Perhaps animals were created simply to
provide that service...
It may be that the prodrome of a viral infection, such as the common
cold with its aches, pains and sniffles, is merely a byproduct of
billions of tiny, viral orgasms...

So, who is the higher order of evolution here?

Might I recommend that you all read Richard Dawkin's, THE SELFISH
GENE..
It will give you a new perspective...


denny

Denny wrote:
Indeed, logic would lead me to think the necessary
microbe(s)/cell(s)/virus-thingy(s) "came through" with the big bang,
perhaps an intended "life seeding" (experiment?) of this universe--maybe
that is where "heaven" is--outside this universe.

Have we considered that viruses need complex cells in order to
procreate and survive... Perhaps animals were created simply to
provide that service...
It may be that the prodrome of a viral infection, such as the common
cold with its aches, pains and sniffles, is merely a byproduct of
billions of tiny, viral orgasms...

So, who is the higher order of evolution here?

Might I recommend that you all read Richard Dawkin's, THE SELFISH
GENE..
It will give you a new perspective...


denny


When I mentioned "virus-thingy", I was referring to the organism Cecil
had mentioned earlier, his text:

"We are also discovering "nanobes" so small (20 nm) that
we never realized that they were alive before now. These
critters contain only about 10 DNA molecules."

JS

On 14 Jun, 06:25, John Smith I wrote:
Denny wrote:
Indeed, logic would lead me to think the necessary
microbe(s)/cell(s)/virus-thingy(s) "came through" with the big bang,
perhaps an intended "life seeding" (experiment?) of this universe--maybe
that is where "heaven" is--outside this universe.

Have we considered that viruses need complex cells in order to
procreate and survive... Perhaps animals were created simply to
provide that service...
It may be that the prodrome of a viral infection, such as the common
cold with its aches, pains and sniffles, is merely a byproduct of
billions of tiny, viral orgasms...

So, who is the higher order of evolution here?

Might I recommend that you all read Richard Dawkin's, THE SELFISH
GENE..
It will give you a new perspective...

denny

When I mentioned "virus-thingy", I was referring to the organism Cecil
had mentioned earlier, his text:

"We are also discovering "nanobes" so small (20 nm) that
we never realized that they were alive before now. These
critters contain only about 10 DNA molecules."

JS- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

John,
Water does burn. It has been years that I have felt the
sensation of my body throbbing with so much passion.