getting radio communication into a metal building
 

I am a consultant for an AVL (automatic vehicle location system)
system used by the Southeastern counties of Michigan. The system is
used on winter maintenance vehicles and works on 900 MHz. The
vehicles are often stored overnight in metal buildings where it is
difficult to obtain transceiver communication from the AVL system. Is
there a low cost (possibly passive) way to port 900 MHz radio
transmissions into these buildings?

Thanks,

Eric Anderson

getting radio communication into a metal building
 

"eganders" wrote in message
ups.com...
I am a consultant for an AVL (automatic vehicle location system)
system used by the Southeastern counties of Michigan. The system is
used on winter maintenance vehicles and works on 900 MHz. The
vehicles are often stored overnight in metal buildings where it is
difficult to obtain transceiver communication from the AVL system. Is
there a low cost (possibly passive) way to port 900 MHz radio
transmissions into these buildings?

Thanks,

Eric Anderson


Hi Eric

How inconvenient would it be to use two antennas, one inside and one
outside, with coax connecting them, and *try it*?

Jerry

getting radio communication into a metal building
 

In article cPRdi.2837$Zh6.2290@trnddc04,
"Jerry Martes" wrote:

"eganders" wrote in message
ups.com...
I am a consultant for an AVL (automatic vehicle location system)
system used by the Southeastern counties of Michigan. The system is
used on winter maintenance vehicles and works on 900 MHz. The
vehicles are often stored overnight in metal buildings where it is
difficult to obtain transceiver communication from the AVL system. Is
there a low cost (possibly passive) way to port 900 MHz radio
transmissions into these buildings?

Thanks,

Eric Anderson


Hi Eric

How inconvenient would it be to use two antennas, one inside and one
outside, with coax connecting them, and *try it*?

Jerry



Yep, Passive Repeaters are the way to go.......just make sure you use
extreamly Low Loss Coax, and very good Connectors......

getting radio communication into a metal building
 

On Jun 19, 3:08 pm, You wrote:
In article cPRdi.2837$Zh6.2290@trnddc04,
"Jerry Martes" wrote:





"eganders" wrote in message
oups.com...
I am a consultant for an AVL (automatic vehicle location system)
system used by the Southeastern counties of Michigan. The system is
used on winter maintenance vehicles and works on 900 MHz. The
vehicles are often stored overnight in metal buildings where it is
difficult to obtain transceiver communication from the AVL system. Is
there a low cost (possibly passive) way to port 900 MHz radio
transmissions into these buildings?

Thanks,

Eric Anderson

Hi Eric

How inconvenient would it be to use two antennas, one inside and one
outside, with coax connecting them, and *try it*?

Jerry

Yep, Passive Repeaters are the way to go.......just make sure you use
extreamly Low Loss Coax, and very good Connectors......- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I think they also make active repeaters that do this. If this works
just send me $1000 consultation fee.


Jimmie

getting radio communication into a metal building
 

eganders wrote:
I am a consultant for an AVL (automatic vehicle location system)
system used by the Southeastern counties of Michigan. The system is
used on winter maintenance vehicles and works on 900 MHz. The
vehicles are often stored overnight in metal buildings where it is
difficult to obtain transceiver communication from the AVL system. Is
there a low cost (possibly passive) way to port 900 MHz radio
transmissions into these buildings?

Thanks,

Eric Anderson

One would expect a person who is acting professionally as an RF
consultant to already have significant knowledge in this area. I
realize this is a government job, but I wouldn't hire a day laborer
to act as a master carpenter or project manager. Please don't bill
the transit property for your time spent here trying to learn things
in a subject are which you're supposed to already have mastered.

getting radio communication into a metal building
 

Karl NVW wrote:
eganders wrote:

I am a consultant for an AVL (automatic vehicle location system)
system used by the Southeastern counties of Michigan. The system is
used on winter maintenance vehicles and works on 900 MHz. The
vehicles are often stored overnight in metal buildings where it is
difficult to obtain transceiver communication from the AVL system. Is
there a low cost (possibly passive) way to port 900 MHz radio
transmissions into these buildings?

Thanks,

Eric Anderson

One would expect a person who is acting professionally as an RF
consultant to already have significant knowledge in this area. I
realize this is a government job, but I wouldn't hire a day laborer to
act as a master carpenter or project manager. Please don't bill the
transit property for your time spent here trying to learn things in a
subject are which you're supposed to already have mastered.

Our man Eric might not be a RF consultant, eh? Perhaps he's a software
guy, or a system integrator, or looking for general ideas before leaping
out and hiring an RF consultant?

getting radio communication into a metal building
 

In article ,
Jim Lux wrote:

Karl NVW wrote:
eganders wrote:

I am a consultant for an AVL (automatic vehicle location system)
system used by the Southeastern counties of Michigan. The system is
used on winter maintenance vehicles and works on 900 MHz. The
vehicles are often stored overnight in metal buildings where it is
difficult to obtain transceiver communication from the AVL system. Is
there a low cost (possibly passive) way to port 900 MHz radio
transmissions into these buildings?

Thanks,

Eric Anderson

One would expect a person who is acting professionally as an RF
consultant to already have significant knowledge in this area. I
realize this is a government job, but I wouldn't hire a day laborer to
act as a master carpenter or project manager. Please don't bill the
transit property for your time spent here trying to learn things in a
subject are which you're supposed to already have mastered.

Our man Eric might not be a RF consultant, eh? Perhaps he's a software
guy, or a system integrator, or looking for general ideas before leaping
out and hiring an RF consultant?


sounds more like a Bookkeeper, turned Corp. IT Guru, only because noone
else wanted the job, and he got stuck with it. Lack of Knowledge of the
Technology, doesn't make one incompitant, Not asking the right questions,
DOES.....

getting radio communication into a metal building
 

"You" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Jim Lux wrote:

Karl NVW wrote:
eganders wrote:

I am a consultant for an AVL (automatic vehicle location system)
system used by the Southeastern counties of Michigan. The system is
used on winter maintenance vehicles and works on 900 MHz. The
vehicles are often stored overnight in metal buildings where it is
difficult to obtain transceiver communication from the AVL system. Is
there a low cost (possibly passive) way to port 900 MHz radio
transmissions into these buildings?

Thanks,

Eric Anderson

What the heck....I'll give an opinion, since no one else has.
You might try a passive repeater antenna system. It would consist of an
outside antenna (preferrably directional with gain) pointed at the distant
station, connected by a transmission line to an antenna as near as possible
to the maintenance vehicles.

I say "try" because only a small part of the radiated power is intercepted
by the passive repeater receive antenna. Then that small part is
re-radiated in a pattern such a much smaller signal arrives at the ultimate
antenna.

If you have homebrewing 900 mHz antenna skills, test hardware can be
constructed rather inexpensively.

getting radio communication into a metal building
 

On 19 Jun, 12:08, You wrote:
In article cPRdi.2837$Zh6.2290@trnddc04,
"Jerry Martes" wrote:





"eganders" wrote in message
oups.com...
I am a consultant for an AVL (automatic vehicle location system)
system used by the Southeastern counties of Michigan. The system is
used on winter maintenance vehicles and works on 900 MHz. The
vehicles are often stored overnight in metal buildings where it is
difficult to obtain transceiver communication from the AVL system. Is
there a low cost (possibly passive) way to port 900 MHz radio
transmissions into these buildings?

Thanks,

Eric Anderson

Hi Eric

How inconvenient would it be to use two antennas, one inside and one
outside, with coax connecting them, and *try it*?

Jerry

Yep, Passive Repeaters are the way to go.......just make sure you use
extreamly Low Loss Coax, and very good Connectors......- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Use a loud speaker to get the message in

getting radio communication into a metal building
 

Jim Lux wrote:
"Is there a low cost (possibly passive) way to port 900 MHz radio
transmissions into these buildings?"

I`m assuming full-duplex (simultaneous transmissions and receptions are
required. Half-duplex 2-way extensions indoors, through tunnels, etc.
are routinely obtained using a land-mobile station antenna port
connected to TV twinlead run through the building, tunnel, etc. It works
like gangbusters. Special Andrew Corp. rafiating Heliax is not required.

For full-duplex, it is only slightly more complicated to do something
silimiar. A metal building which can keep radio signals out should also
keep them in.

First I would try the simple expedient of antennas back-to-back, one
outside the building and the other inside. Problem is in the huge signal
loss in the first few feet from the re-transmission antenna. As much as
99% of the signal is likely lost. That may or may not be acceptable.

For the full-duplex solution, you will need two amplifiers, one for each
direction of transmission. These go inside the buildiing. The input of
one amplifier is connected to one of the outside antennas. The amplifier
output is connected to 300-ohm TV twinlead which is run around the
interior of the builrding so that some part of the twinlead is never
very far from anyplace a vehicle may be parked in the buillding.

The input of the second amplifier is connected to a similarly placed run
of twinlead. The two twinlead runs are separated so that the input of
the second amplifier isn`t overloaded by the output of the first
amplifier and that a feedback loop isn`t created. output of the second
amplifier is fed to its antenna outside the building.

Separate frequencies are used in full-duplex systems so the probability
of feedback is small.

I suppose the AVL system is using a satellite and highly directive
antennas can be used. 900-MHz is a low microwave frequency so cheap
consumer-electronics amplifiers may be applicable. A 900-MHz dish
antenna with significant gain is much larger than those used for the
Dish TV network. Ordinary microwave systems use circulators to connect
their receivers and transmitters to a common antenna. The vehicles in
your AVL system surely don`t use big dishes so there is probably no need
for high-gain antennas. Your system may be a one-way system for all I
know. You can use applicable parts of what I described above.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI