"Rick (W-A-one-R-K-T)" wrote in message
news

OK, per the thread on "Question on grounding rods", I'm supposed to use
8-foot grounding rods rather than twice as many 4-foot rods. I can see
that.

But, we're built on a ledge, one big wide rock that stretches from the
seacoast to the Vermont state line (that's why they call New Hampshire the
"Granite State"). I can get three feet depth at best before running into
solid rock. An electrician friend of mine says I can drive the ground rod
in at a 45-degree angle, but that would still run an 8-foot ground rod to
a depth of more than 5.5 feet below the surface.

Can't be done.

So, what do I do next?


ok, the answer is:

first, you get your electrician friend to install or update your grounding
to meet the building code. that, by definition, takes care of electrical
safety grounding.

Second, you ask him this: "if i install an antenna (tell him tv antenna on
a tower), how do i ground the tower, and how do i connect it to the existing
ground". do what he says right outside your shack and consider that your
lightning/rf ground improvement, this is where you connect your single point
(equipotential as some people like the big term) ground for the shack
entrance.

NOTE: VERY IMPORTANT! any ground you do for lighting protection for
antennas or for rf MUST be connected PROPERLY to your house power ground...
this is not done through the 3rd prong on your power cords. nor is it done
through a cold water pipe, nor a piece of 14ga wire wrapped around the
ground rod.

Third, if you put up a vertical or some other antenna requiring a ground
screen to reduce losses that must also be connected the same way to your
power ground. the shield of the coax is NOT sufficient.

Hey Guys,
Being such technical experts as we all are, the concept of "quoted text" in
newsgroup articles is far less complicated than any technical subject related
to antennas or grounding.
Simply, it means when replying to a newsgroup article, the quoted text is the
text from the previous articles that you leave in your posting when you send
it.
Being that most of us read several of the articles in the thread at the same
time we really do not need all of the previous article to see what you are
talking about. In fact only a few lines would show us what portion of the
text you are commenting on if even that.

When you quote the entire article, we have to hunt through it to see where you
are placing your comments or scroll all the way to the bottom to see where
your few lines of info lie.

I just received a 78 line article where the poster added 3 lines of his own
data..........

If you find this subject difficult to understand, all I am saying is when you
reply to a posting, just highlight all or most of the previous material and
hit the delete key. Not really difficult.

Thanks,

Rick K2XT

"Rick" wrote in message
...
Hey Guys,
Being such technical experts as we all are, the concept of "quoted text"
in
newsgroup articles is far less complicated than any technical subject
related
to antennas or grounding.
Simply, it means when replying to a newsgroup article, the quoted text is
the
text from the previous articles that you leave in your posting when you
send
it.
Being that most of us read several of the articles in the thread at the
same
time we really do not need all of the previous article to see what you are
talking about. In fact only a few lines would show us what portion of the
text you are commenting on if even that.

When you quote the entire article, we have to hunt through it to see where
you
are placing your comments or scroll all the way to the bottom to see where
your few lines of info lie.

I just received a 78 line article where the poster added 3 lines of his
own
data..........

If you find this subject difficult to understand, all I am saying is when
you
reply to a posting, just highlight all or most of the previous material
and
hit the delete key. Not really difficult.

Thanks,

Rick K2XT

and when you completely change the topic (in this case from ledge to a news
group scolding) you should change the message topic, like the previous
poster did.

Rick (W-A-one-R-K-T) wrote:
OK, per the thread on "Question on grounding rods", I'm supposed to use
8-foot grounding rods rather than twice as many 4-foot rods. I can see
that.

But, we're built on a ledge, one big wide rock that stretches from the
seacoast to the Vermont state line (that's why they call New Hampshire the
"Granite State"). I can get three feet depth at best before running into
solid rock. An electrician friend of mine says I can drive the ground rod
in at a 45-degree angle, but that would still run an 8-foot ground rod to
a depth of more than 5.5 feet below the surface.

Can't be done.

So, what do I do next?

I assume you're subject to the National Electrical Code in some version
or another?

What do you do? You use a Concrete Encased Grounding Electrode

Dig trench, lay wire, fill with concrete, done.

(The NEC also allows you to dig trench, lay your 8 foot rod sideways in
the trench, and then backfill.. but the CEGE is a better ground)

On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:20:37 GMT, "Dave" wrote:


"Rick" wrote in message
...
Hey Guys,
Being such technical experts as we all are, the concept of "quoted text"
in
newsgroup articles is far less complicated than any technical subject
related
to antennas or grounding.
Simply, it means when replying to a newsgroup article, the quoted text is
the
text from the previous articles that you leave in your posting when you
send
it.
Being that most of us read several of the articles in the thread at the
same
time we really do not need all of the previous article to see what you are
talking about. In fact only a few lines would show us what portion of the
text you are commenting on if even that.

When you quote the entire article, we have to hunt through it to see where
you
are placing your comments or scroll all the way to the bottom to see where
your few lines of info lie.

I just received a 78 line article where the poster added 3 lines of his
own
data..........

If you find this subject difficult to understand, all I am saying is when
you
reply to a posting, just highlight all or most of the previous material
and
hit the delete key. Not really difficult.

Thanks,

Rick K2XT

and when you completely change the topic (in this case from ledge to a news
group scolding) you should change the message topic, like the previous
poster did.


On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:20:37 GMT, "Dave" wrote:


"Rick" wrote in message
...
Hey Guys,
Being such technical experts as we all are, the concept of "quoted text"
in
newsgroup articles is far less complicated than any technical subject
related
to antennas or grounding.
Simply, it means when replying to a newsgroup article, the quoted text is
the
text from the previous articles that you leave in your posting when you
send
it.
Being that most of us read several of the articles in the thread at the
same
time we really do not need all of the previous article to see what you are
talking about. In fact only a few lines would show us what portion of the
text you are commenting on if even that.

When you quote the entire article, we have to hunt through it to see where
you
are placing your comments or scroll all the way to the bottom to see where
your few lines of info lie.

I just received a 78 line article where the poster added 3 lines of his
own
data..........

If you find this subject difficult to understand, all I am saying is when
you
reply to a posting, just highlight all or most of the previous material
and
hit the delete key. Not really difficult.

Thanks,

Rick K2XT

and when you completely change the topic (in this case from ledge to a news
group scolding) you should change the message topic, like the previous
poster did.


On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:20:37 GMT, "Dave" wrote:


"Rick" wrote in message
...
Hey Guys,
Being such technical experts as we all are, the concept of "quoted text"
in
newsgroup articles is far less complicated than any technical subject
related
to antennas or grounding.
Simply, it means when replying to a newsgroup article, the quoted text is
the
text from the previous articles that you leave in your posting when you
send
it.
Being that most of us read several of the articles in the thread at the
same
time we really do not need all of the previous article to see what you are
talking about. In fact only a few lines would show us what portion of the
text you are commenting on if even that.

When you quote the entire article, we have to hunt through it to see where
you
are placing your comments or scroll all the way to the bottom to see where
your few lines of info lie.

I just received a 78 line article where the poster added 3 lines of his
own
data..........

If you find this subject difficult to understand, all I am saying is when
you
reply to a posting, just highlight all or most of the previous material
and
hit the delete key. Not really difficult.

Thanks,

Rick K2XT

and when you completely change the topic (in this case from ledge to a news
group scolding) you should change the message topic, like the previous
poster did.


On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:20:37 GMT, "Dave" wrote:


"Rick" wrote in message
...
Hey Guys,
Being such technical experts as we all are, the concept of "quoted text"
in
newsgroup articles is far less complicated than any technical subject
related
to antennas or grounding.
Simply, it means when replying to a newsgroup article, the quoted text is
the
text from the previous articles that you leave in your posting when you
send
it.
Being that most of us read several of the articles in the thread at the
same
time we really do not need all of the previous article to see what you are
talking about. In fact only a few lines would show us what portion of the
text you are commenting on if even that.

When you quote the entire article, we have to hunt through it to see where
you
are placing your comments or scroll all the way to the bottom to see where
your few lines of info lie.

I just received a 78 line article where the poster added 3 lines of his
own
data..........

If you find this subject difficult to understand, all I am saying is when
you
reply to a posting, just highlight all or most of the previous material
and
hit the delete key. Not really difficult.

Thanks,

Rick K2XT

and when you completely change the topic (in this case from ledge to a news
group scolding) you should change the message topic, like the previous
poster did.


On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:20:37 GMT, "Dave" wrote:


"Rick" wrote in message
...
Hey Guys,
Being such technical experts as we all are, the concept of "quoted text"
in
newsgroup articles is far less complicated than any technical subject
related
to antennas or grounding.
Simply, it means when replying to a newsgroup article, the quoted text is
the
text from the previous articles that you leave in your posting when you
send
it.
Being that most of us read several of the articles in the thread at the
same
time we really do not need all of the previous article to see what you are
talking about. In fact only a few lines would show us what portion of the
text you are commenting on if even that.

When you quote the entire article, we have to hunt through it to see where
you
are placing your comments or scroll all the way to the bottom to see where
your few lines of info lie.

I just received a 78 line article where the poster added 3 lines of his
own
data..........

If you find this subject difficult to understand, all I am saying is when
you
reply to a posting, just highlight all or most of the previous material
and
hit the delete key. Not really difficult.

Thanks,

Rick K2XT

and when you completely change the topic (in this case from ledge to a news
group scolding) you should change the message topic, like the previous
poster did.


On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:20:37 GMT, "Dave" wrote:


"Rick" wrote in message
...
Hey Guys,
Being such technical experts as we all are, the concept of "quoted text"
in
newsgroup articles is far less complicated than any technical subject
related
to antennas or grounding.
Simply, it means when replying to a newsgroup article, the quoted text is
the
text from the previous articles that you leave in your posting when you
send
it.
Being that most of us read several of the articles in the thread at the
same
time we really do not need all of the previous article to see what you are
talking about. In fact only a few lines would show us what portion of the
text you are commenting on if even that.

When you quote the entire article, we have to hunt through it to see where
you
are placing your comments or scroll all the way to the bottom to see where
your few lines of info lie.

I just received a 78 line article where the poster added 3 lines of his
own
data..........

If you find this subject difficult to understand, all I am saying is when
you
reply to a posting, just highlight all or most of the previous material
and
hit the delete key. Not really difficult.

Thanks,

Rick K2XT

and when you completely change the topic (in this case from ledge to a news
group scolding) you should change the message topic, like the previous
poster did. On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:20:37 GMT, "Dave" wrote:


"Rick" wrote in message
...
Hey Guys,
Being such technical experts as we all are, the concept of "quoted text"
in
newsgroup articles is far less complicated than any technical subject
related
to antennas or grounding.
Simply, it means when replying to a newsgroup article, the quoted text is
the
text from the previous articles that you leave in your posting when you
send
it.
Being that most of us read several of the articles in the thread at the
same
time we really do not need all of the previous article to see what you are
talking about. In fact only a few lines would show us what portion of the
text you are commenting on if even that.

When you quote the entire article, we have to hunt through it to see where
you
are placing your comments or scroll all the way to the bottom to see where
your few lines of info lie.

I just received a 78 line article where the poster added 3 lines of his
own
data..........

If you find this subject difficult to understand, all I am saying is when
you
reply to a posting, just highlight all or most of the previous material
and
hit the delete key. Not really difficult.

Thanks,

Rick K2XT

and when you completely change the topic (in this case from ledge to a news
group scolding) you should change the message topic, like the previous
poster did.


On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:20:37 GMT, "Dave" wrote:


"Rick" wrote in message
...
Hey Guys,
Being such technical experts as we all are, the concept of "quoted text"
in
newsgroup articles is far less complicated than any technical subject
related
to antennas or grounding.
Simply, it means when replying to a newsgroup article, the quoted text is
the
text from the previous articles that you leave in your posting when you
send
it.
Being that most of us read several of the articles in the thread at the
same
time we really do not need all of the previous article to see what you are
talking about. In fact only a few lines would show us what portion of the
text you are commenting on if even that.

When you quote the entire article, we have to hunt through it to see where
you
are placing your comments or scroll all the way to the bottom to see where
your few lines of info lie.

I just received a 78 line article where the poster added 3 lines of his
own
data..........

If you find this subject difficult to understand, all I am saying is when
you
reply to a posting, just highlight all or most of the previous material
and
hit the delete key. Not really difficult.

Thanks,

Rick K2XT

and when you completely change the topic (in this case from ledge to a news
group scolding) you should change the message topic, like the previous
poster did.


On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:20:37 GMT, "Dave" wrote:


"Rick" wrote in message
...
Hey Guys,
Being such technical experts as we all are, the concept of "quoted text"
in
newsgroup articles is far less complicated than any technical subject
related
to antennas or grounding.
Simply, it means when replying to a newsgroup article, the quoted text is
the
text from the previous articles that you leave in your posting when you
send
it.
Being that most of us read several of the articles in the thread at the
same
time we really do not need all of the previous article to see what you are
talking about. In fact only a few lines would show us what portion of the
text you are commenting on if even that.

When you quote the entire article, we have to hunt through it to see where
you
are placing your comments or scroll all the way to the bottom to see where
your few lines of info lie.

I just received a 78 line article where the poster added 3 lines of his
own
data..........

If you find this subject difficult to understand, all I am saying is when
you
reply to a posting, just highlight all or most of the previous material
and
hit the delete key. Not really difficult.

Thanks,

Rick K2XT

and when you completely change the topic (in this case from ledge to a news
group scolding) you should change the message topic, like the previous
poster did.


On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:20:37 GMT, "Dave" wrote:


"Rick" wrote in message
...
Hey Guys,
Being such technical experts as we all are, the concept of "quoted text"
in
newsgroup articles is far less complicated than any technical subject
related
to antennas or grounding.
Simply, it means when replying to a newsgroup article, the quoted text is
the
text from the previous articles that you leave in your posting when you
send
it.
Being that most of us read several of the articles in the thread at the
same
time we really do not need all of the previous article to see what you are
talking about. In fact only a few lines would show us what portion of the
text you are commenting on if even that.

When you quote the entire article, we have to hunt through it to see where
you
are placing your comments or scroll all the way to the bottom to see where
your few lines of info lie.

I just received a 78 line article where the poster added 3 lines of his
own
data..........

If you find this subject difficult to understand, all I am saying is when
you
reply to a posting, just highlight all or most of the previous material
and
hit the delete key. Not really difficult.

Thanks,

Rick K2XT

and when you completely change the topic (in this case from ledge to a news
group scolding) you should change the message topic, like the previous
poster did.


On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:20:37 GMT, "Dave" wrote:


"Rick" wrote in message
...
Hey Guys,
Being such technical experts as we all are, the concept of "quoted text"
in
newsgroup articles is far less complicated than any technical subject
related
to antennas or grounding.
Simply, it means when replying to a newsgroup article, the quoted text is
the
text from the previous articles that you leave in your posting when you
send
it.
Being that most of us read several of the articles in the thread at the
same
time we really do not need all of the previous article to see what you are
talking about. In fact only a few lines would show us what portion of the
text you are commenting on if even that.

When you quote the entire article, we have to hunt through it to see where
you
are placing your comments or scroll all the way to the bottom to see where
your few lines of info lie.

I just received a 78 line article where the poster added 3 lines of his
own
data..........

If you find this subject difficult to understand, all I am saying is when
you
reply to a posting, just highlight all or most of the previous material
and
hit the delete key. Not really difficult.

Thanks,

Rick K2XT

and when you completely change the topic (in this case from ledge to a news
group scolding) you should change the message topic, like the previous
poster did.


On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:20:37 GMT, "Dave" wrote:


"Rick" wrote in message
...
Hey Guys,
Being such technical experts as we all are, the concept of "quoted text"
in
newsgroup articles is far less complicated than any technical subject
related
to antennas or grounding.
Simply, it means when replying to a newsgroup article, the quoted text is
the
text from the previous articles that you leave in your posting when you
send
it.
Being that most of us read several of the articles in the thread at the
same
time we really do not need all of the previous article to see what you are
talking about. In fact only a few lines would show us what portion of the
text you are commenting on if even that.

When you quote the entire article, we have to hunt through it to see where
you
are placing your comments or scroll all the way to the bottom to see where
your few lines of info lie.

I just received a 78 line article where the poster added 3 lines of his
own
data..........

If you find this subject difficult to understand, all I am saying is when
you
reply to a posting, just highlight all or most of the previous material
and
hit the delete key. Not really difficult.

Thanks,

Rick K2XT

and when you completely change the topic (in this case from ledge to a news
group scolding) you should change the message topic, like the previous
poster did.

Oh you're right. I got it now. But you didn't.
Actually I didn't change the topic. I posted it in the newsgroup where the
offenders were, so they might see it.
I'm not trying to start a fight, just improve things a little.

Rick

On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 20:18:34 -0400, "Rick (W-A-one-R-K-T)"
wrote:


OK, per the thread on "Question on grounding rods", I'm supposed to use
8-foot grounding rods rather than twice as many 4-foot rods. I can see
that.

But, we're built on a ledge, one big wide rock that stretches from the
seacoast to the Vermont state line (that's why they call New Hampshire the
"Granite State"). I can get three feet depth at best before running into
solid rock. An electrician friend of mine says I can drive the ground rod
in at a 45-degree angle, but that would still run an 8-foot ground rod to
a depth of more than 5.5 feet below the surface.

Can't be done.

So, what do I do next?

At 2300 feet up a big hunk of granite in southern VT, we have only
about 1 foot of surface soil, below which it is all low grade granite.
The house was constructed with a Ufer grounding system. Out at the
tower, we installed a system of radial wires from the tower base to
get whatever ground we could.

All of the antennas here are balanced, and we get out quite well on
all bands. The antennas think they are a thousand feet up, and I
have good directionality even out of the 40 meter beam when the crank
up is fully retracted. Raising the tower is only needed for getting
the above the surrounding trees.

One of the things that I observe as a result of living/operating from
a high ground resistance location is that it seems that we seldom get
nearby lightning ground strokes. They seem to hit down in the valley
where the soil is more conductive.

I am glad that you did not also lecture us on the additional elements of
posting style
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-posting#Top-posting

"Rick" wrote in message
...
[snip]

Oh you're right. I got it now. But you didn't.
Actually I didn't change the topic. I posted it in the newsgroup where
the
offenders were, so they might see it.
I'm not trying to start a fight, just improve things a little.

Rick

"John, N9JG" wrote in message
. net...
I am glad that you did not also lecture us on the additional elements of
posting style
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-posting#Top-posting

"Rick" wrote in message
...
[snip]

Oh you're right. I got it now. But you didn't.
Actually I didn't change the topic. I posted it in the newsgroup where
the

i prefer middle posting.

offenders were, so they might see it.
I'm not trying to start a fight, just improve things a little.

Rick

I much prefer your example of posting an opinion as opposed to giving us a
sermon.

"Dave" wrote in message news:fyUli.30$yx4.22@trndny08...

"John, N9JG" wrote in message
. net...
I am glad that you did not also lecture us on the additional elements of
posting style
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-posting#Top-posting

"Rick" wrote in message
...
[snip]

Oh you're right. I got it now. But you didn't.
Actually I didn't change the topic. I posted it in the newsgroup where
the

i prefer middle posting.

offenders were, so they might see it.
I'm not trying to start a fight, just improve things a little.

Rick

On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 22:10:05 +0000, Rick wrote:

Oh you're right. I got it now. But you didn't.
Actually I didn't change the topic. I posted it in the newsgroup where
the offenders were, so they might see it. I'm not trying to start a
fight, just improve things a little.

Good evening, Rick.

Well, I (and presumably others) would have been a lot happier if you
hadn't done it by "hijacking" the "we're on a ledge" thread.

When you do a followup (reply) to a topic and just change the topic, it
messes up threaded newsreaders big time, so that now every time a new
article comes in on the "Quoted text" thread, I get a notification that
something came in on my "we're built on a ledge" thread when it's really a
completely different topic entirely.

In the future please, PLEASE start a new thread rather than replying to an
old one if you're going to change the topic.

Thanks...