Grounding systems -- need the help of some good elmers
 

Greetings,

To be honest, I'm a little embarrassed to even be posting this
question. I've been a ham for over 10 years, but I've been out of the
hobby for the past several and I'll freely admit that I'm one of those
"memorize the multiple choice" people. Anyway, times have changed and
I now own a house, and an HF rig, and have moved far from my roots. I
want to get an HF station together, but I find the prospect of
building/raising an antenna and putting together a grounding system a
daunting task.

So here's my question. Is it ok to have multiple shallow grounding
rods versus one longer grounding rod? For example, what's the
difference between 2 four foot rods versus 1 eight foot rod?

Also, I'd like to describe my potential station set up, as I strongly
suspect that it is not ideal, and I'd like any suggestions from the
elmering crowd. It's on the 2nd floor of my home, over the garage.
The power, cable, and phone connections are on the opposite side of
the house, and there is no way to directly go under the house to get
there (at least from outside the house). The home is nearly brand new
(less than one year old). I should also mention that I have an
unnatural fear of putting holes in the house, but I suppose I'll have
to get over that in order to get on the air ;-).

Thanks in advance and 73!

Dan, W4XJF

Grounding systems -- need the help of some good elmers
 

Grounding systems -- need the help of some good elmers
 

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 14:06:44 -0000, "
wrote:

[snip

So here's my question. Is it ok to have multiple shallow grounding
rods versus one longer grounding rod? For example, what's the
difference between 2 four foot rods versus 1 eight foot rod?

[snip]

Dan, W4XJF

Dan, you didn't mention the type of ground you're seeking (safety, RF
or lightining). If lightining, here's a good place to start.

http://www.polyphaser.com/NR/rdonlyr...182/TD1016.pdf

Danny, K6MHE

Grounding systems -- need the help of some good elmers
 

On Jul 29, 1:09 pm, Ron in Radio Heaven
wrote:
wrote:
Dan, W4XJF

Since you've moved I'll suggest that you do a change
of address with the FCC, you're still listed
as being in an apartment.

W4XJF
DANIEL F COATES
4619 Sunflower Rd. Apt 22
Knoxville TN 37909

73, Ron kc4yoy

Good point... I'll definitely need to update that sooner than
later. ;-).

Grounding systems -- need the help of some good elmers
 

On Jul 29, 1:10 pm, Danny Richardson wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 14:06:44 -0000, "

wrote:

[snip



So here's my question. Is it ok to have multiple shallow grounding
rods versus one longer grounding rod? For example, what's the
difference between 2 four foot rods versus 1 eight foot rod?

[snip]

Dan, W4XJF

Dan, you didn't mention the type of ground you're seeking (safety, RF
or lightining). If lightining, here's a good place to start.

http://www.polyphaser.com/NR/rdonlyr...C2-A98F-E88B80...

Danny, K6MHE

Sorry, I should have been somewhat more specific. I'm looking to
create an RF ground.

Grounding systems -- need the help of some good elmers
 

On Jul 29, 6:42 pm, " wrote:
On Jul 29, 1:10 pm, Danny Richardson wrote:



On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 14:06:44 -0000, "

wrote:

[snip

So here's my question. Is it ok to have multiple shallow grounding
rods versus one longer grounding rod? For example, what's the
difference between 2 four foot rods versus 1 eight foot rod?

[snip]

Dan, W4XJF

Dan, you didn't mention the type of ground you're seeking (safety, RF
or lightining). If lightining, here's a good place to start.

http://www.polyphaser.com/NR/rdonlyr...C2-A98F-E88B80...

Danny, K6MHE

Sorry, I should have been somewhat more specific. I'm looking to
create an RF ground.

A couple of ground rods is not going to make much of an RF ground.
Do you actually need an RF ground? Being you will be on the 2nd
floor, I bet you would be better off without one.
What will the antenna be?
You would be better off to use a "complete" antenna, and that way
you will not need an RF ground in the shack at all.
An RF ground should always be under an antenna the way I see
things.
Trying to rig up an RF ground on the ground floor, and then rigging a
wire from it, up to the 2nd floor, is a mistake, and will just act
like
part of the antenna.
Myself, I would not even bother.
Heck, I'm on the ground floor in this shack, and I don't use an RF
ground to the shack. Haven't in nearly 15 years...
MK

Grounding systems -- need the help of some good elmers
 

" wrote in
ups.com:

Greetings,

To be honest, I'm a little embarrassed to even be posting this
question. I've been a ham for over 10 years, but I've been out of the
hobby for the past several and I'll freely admit that I'm one of those
"memorize the multiple choice" people. Anyway, times have changed and
I now own a house, and an HF rig, and have moved far from my roots. I
want to get an HF station together, but I find the prospect of
building/raising an antenna and putting together a grounding system a
daunting task.

So here's my question. Is it ok to have multiple shallow grounding
rods versus one longer grounding rod? For example, what's the
difference between 2 four foot rods versus 1 eight foot rod?

Also, I'd like to describe my potential station set up, as I strongly
suspect that it is not ideal, and I'd like any suggestions from the
elmering crowd. It's on the 2nd floor of my home, over the garage.
The power, cable, and phone connections are on the opposite side of
the house, and there is no way to directly go under the house to get
there (at least from outside the house). The home is nearly brand new
(less than one year old). I should also mention that I have an
unnatural fear of putting holes in the house, but I suppose I'll have
to get over that in order to get on the air ;-).

Thanks in advance and 73!

Dan, W4XJF

Hi Dan:

I want to follow on what some of the other have said.
First to only reason to have an RF ground in you shack is if you are
going to use an antenna that brings part of the antenna that is supposed
to radiate RF into the shack, as an example, a long wire antenna.
Dipoles, beams and verticals that are feed with coax do not need RF
grounds in the shack. Anyway making a RF ground in a second floor shack
is a hard job.
You do need a ground for lighting and static charge protection. For
information on how to do that the Polyphaser web site is a good place to
go.
The basics are at least one 8’ ground rod as close to the shack as
physically possible. More ground rods are better. Using shorter ground
rods requires the use of more of them. In all cases more ground rods,
properly installed the better. The ground rods should be connected
together, if more than one is used, and to the shack with at least a #6
solid copper wire. You can bring it in to the shack anyway that is
convent. Also national electrical code requires that all grounds to
connect to the house ground (green wire ground) also. There is already a
ground rod connecting your fuse panel to earth ground and your lighting
protection ground must be connected to this ground via at least a #6 sold
copper wire. The problem with RF ground and second story shacks is the
length of wire will be too long the reach the earth and will act more as
an antenna than a ground.

Hope this helps.
73
John Passaneau W3JXP

Grounding systems -- need the help of some good elmers
 

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 23:42:52 -0000, "
wrote:

On Jul 29, 1:10 pm, Danny Richardson wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 14:06:44 -0000, "

wrote:

[snip



So here's my question. Is it ok to have multiple shallow grounding
rods versus one longer grounding rod? For example, what's the
difference between 2 four foot rods versus 1 eight foot rod?

[snip]

Dan, W4XJF

Dan, you didn't mention the type of ground you're seeking (safety, RF
or lightining). If lightining, here's a good place to start.

http://www.polyphaser.com/NR/rdonlyr...C2-A98F-E88B80...

Danny, K6MHE

Sorry, I should have been somewhat more specific. I'm looking to
create an RF ground.

If it's an RF ground for an antenna, radials, buried or elevated,
would be better than ground rod(s).

bob
k5qwg

Grounding systems -- need the help of some good elmers
 

On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 13:40:27 +0000 (UTC), John Passaneau
wrote:

I want to follow on what some of the other have said.
First to only reason to have an RF ground in you shack is if you are
going to use an antenna that brings part of the antenna that is supposed
to radiate RF into the shack, as an example, a long wire antenna.
Dipoles, beams and verticals that are feed with coax do not need RF
grounds in the shack

Not true. Feeding an antenna with coax does not remove the need for a
station ground and here's why:

http://k6mhe.com/sub/BlancedFeedLine.pdf


Danny,K6MHE

Grounding systems -- need the help of some good elmers
 

On Jul 30, 10:04 am, Danny Richardson wrote:


Not true. Feeding an antenna with coax does not remove the need for a
station ground and here's why:

http://k6mhe.com/sub/BlancedFeedLine.pdf

Danny,K6MHE

The coax has nothing to do with it. Whether or not the antenna is
complete will be a much more deciding factor.
But still, I see nothing in the pdf that would imply a ground
is needed for feeding such an antenna, coax fed or not.
Only decoupling of the feedline is needed. Not a shack ground.
Why would one "need" a station ground in that case, assuming
the feedline is decoupled?
How would adding a station ground improve operation of a "complete"
antenna that was not well decoupled?
Myself, I would consider that a "bandaid" approach to the common
mode problem. A ground can hide problems in some cases, but
it never actually fixes anything. Common mode problems should
never be "cured" by station "RF" grounding.
MK