Checking Coax Connextion
 

All

Is it possible to check the quality of a coax connection to a PL259
plug without taking the plug apart - i.e. simply by using a
multimeter?

Many thanks

Andy

Checking Coax Connextion
 

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 22:39:21 -0700, Andiroo
wrote:

All

Is it possible to check the quality of a coax connection to a PL259
plug without taking the plug apart - i.e. simply by using a
multimeter?

Hi Andy,

With both ends in your lap:
shells, end to end - very low Ohms;
pins, end to end - very low Ohms;
shell to pin, either end - infinite Ohms.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Checking Coax Connextion
 

Damn, I knew I was missing something - no lap... grin

It is also worthwhile looking for signs of corrosion/water ingress etc
and wriggling the plug/connection as you use the Richard method. Stray
bits of wire can reach out and ruin your apparent resistance. (Which we
know of course is useless...)

(Apologies for using your post so flagrantly Richard...)

Cheers Bob VK2YQA

Richard Clark wrote:
Is it possible to check the quality of a coax connection to a PL259
plug without taking the plug apart - i.e. simply by using a
multimeter?

With both ends in your lap:

Checking Coax Connextion
 

Is it possible to check the quality of a coax connection to a PL259
plug without taking the plug apart - i.e. simply by using a
multimeter?

Hi Andy,

With both ends in your lap:
shells, end to end - very low Ohms;
pins, end to end - very low Ohms;
shell to pin, either end - infinite Ohms.
===========================
The above is an electrical contact/insulation (DC) check

To check the quality of the complete coax cable including the plug(s)
a 'coax loss' check especially when operating at the higher frequencies
is important.

Some antenna analysers (like the MFJ 259/269 ) have this coax loss
measuring facility. These instruments enable the user to change
frequency which shows the overall quality of coax + fitted plugs.

The best type of PL259 plug is the one with a cable entry arrangement as
in N-type plugs . This provides an excellent and simple braid connection
,without having to apply heat other than soldering the centre conductor
to the top of the pin .
These plugs are somewhat more expensive than traditional PL259 plugs
(equivalent US$ 6 in the UK) but imho it is worth the expenditure.

Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH

Checking Coax Connextion
 

On Sep 5, 1:12 pm, Highland Ham
wrote:
Is it possible to check the quality of a coax connection to a PL259
plug without taking the plug apart - i.e. simply by using a
multimeter?

Hi Andy,

With both ends in your lap:
shells, end to end - very low Ohms;
pins, end to end - very low Ohms;
shell to pin, either end - infinite Ohms.

===========================
The above is an electrical contact/insulation (DC) check

To check the quality of the complete coax cable including the plug(s)
a 'coax loss' check especially when operating at the higher frequencies
is important.

Some antenna analysers (like the MFJ 259/269 ) have this coax loss
measuring facility. These instruments enable the user to change
frequency which shows the overall quality of coax + fitted plugs.

The best type of PL259 plug is the one with a cable entry arrangement as
in N-type plugs . This provides an excellent and simple braid connection
,without having to apply heat other than soldering the centre conductor
to the top of the pin .
These plugs are somewhat more expensive than traditional PL259 plugs
(equivalent US$ 6 in the UK) but imho it is worth the expenditure.

Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH

All

More on the nature of the problem. I have basically fitted a 1/2 size
G5RV. Its fitted at 30 ft high between a pole at the end of the yard
and the chimney at approx 30 ft high. The ladder line falls pretty
much vertically except for the very end where i have had to divert it
away from a steel cast iron style balcony which surrounds a roof
terrace on the first floor. I figured it would not be good to brush
alongside the balcony as its metal.

Anyway, i am getting some very weird SWR readings even when i am using
my automatic ATU (LDG Z-100. These range from close to 1.1:1 on
40metres all the way up to 3.1: 1 in the middle of the 20 metre band.
I am trying to work out where the problem may lie. So far i have come
up wiith:

1) its just the way the antenna works and the ATU cant do any better?
2) the ATU is not working properly (but it seems to get a decent match
elsewhere)?
3) there is a problem with the plugs (would this appear to make a
difference only on some frequencies)?
4) somehow the stell balcony / balustrade is causing a problem even
though i am keeping the ladder line approx 12 inches away from it.
Also would this only cause a problem on 20M?
5) running the coax along the steel balustratde and into the house is
causing a problem (is this possible)?

Confounding factor is that it seems to be working ok even with the
high SWR and i have made some decent contacts on both 40 and 20
metres.

I thought i should start with the plugs but any other thoughts welcome
- all very odd!!

Regards

Andy

Checking Coax Connextion
 

"Andiroo" wrote in message
ps.com...
All

Is it possible to check the quality of a coax connection to a PL259
plug without taking the plug apart - i.e. simply by using a
multimeter?

Many thanks

Andy

In a newly installed connector, the most common fault, by far, is a short
from the center conductor to shield. Also, make sure that the opening in the
center pin is completely filled with solder. For small coax, I usually stuff
short pieces of heavier wire in there before soldering. You need a fairly
large iron to solder the shield. I found a ~200 W soldering gun works OK.

Tam/WB2TT

Checking Coax Connextion
 

On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 08:04:32 -0700, Andiroo
wrote:

1) its just the way the antenna works and the ATU cant do any better?

Probably.

2) the ATU is not working properly (but it seems to get a decent match
elsewhere)?

Too complex an answer for a non-problem, no.

3) there is a problem with the plugs (would this appear to make a
difference only on some frequencies)?

Not as you describe things.

4) somehow the stell balcony / balustrade is causing a problem even
though i am keeping the ladder line approx 12 inches away from it.
Also would this only cause a problem on 20M?

Nope, 12 inches is fine.

5) running the coax along the steel balustratde and into the house is
causing a problem (is this possible)?

Only if the "problem" changes with moving the coax.

Confounding factor is that it seems to be working ok even with the
high SWR and i have made some decent contacts on both 40 and 20
metres.

Well! that certainly sucks big time.

I thought i should start with the plugs but any other thoughts welcome
- all very odd!!

Actually, given you can receive and transmit, the plugs was probably
the worst guess. All in all this is a case of losing your keys in the
road at night, and spending all your time searching under the street
light.

Are you, perhaps, under the impression that a G5RV (or any variation
thereof) "should perform better?"

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Checking Coax Connextion
 

Andiroo wrote in news:1189004672.355388.8520
@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com:

....
All

More on the nature of the problem. I have basically fitted a 1/2 size
G5RV. Its fitted at 30 ft high between a pole at the end of the yard
and the chimney at approx 30 ft high. The ladder line falls pretty
much vertically except for the very end where i have had to divert it
away from a steel cast iron style balcony which surrounds a roof
terrace on the first floor. I figured it would not be good to brush
alongside the balcony as its metal.

Anyway, i am getting some very weird SWR readings even when i am using
my automatic ATU (LDG Z-100. These range from close to 1.1:1 on
40metres all the way up to 3.1: 1 in the middle of the 20 metre band.
I am trying to work out where the problem may lie. So far i have come
up wiith:
....

You might find my article on optimising the G5RV of interest. You will
need to scale for a half size G5RV, so scale the frequency axis of the
graph times two, and when it tells you to check for an electrical half
wave of open wire line at 14Mhz, you need to do it at 28Mhz etc. The
article is at http://www.vk1od.net/G5RV/optimising.htm .

After some basic DC tests for proper and reliable connection, no short
circuits etc, next is some more serious RF evaluation of the antenna
system.

The commonest reason for a G5RV to perform worse than expected is that
the open wire line is an incorrect length, usually due to not properly
considering its velocity factor. (If you purchased a kit, as so many
people seem to do nowadays, you would hope that the supplier got this
correct... but?) Next is the length of the dipole which is often
regarded as not affected by its environment. (This applies to a
commercial kit as well as a DIY G5RV.) A tape measure is the start of
setting up a G5RV, not the end.

Owen

Checking Coax Connextion
 

On Sep 5, 9:49 pm, Owen Duffy wrote:
Andiroo wrote in news:1189004672.355388.8520
@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com:

... All

More on the nature of the problem. I have basically fitted a 1/2 size
G5RV. Its fitted at 30 ft high between a pole at the end of the yard
and the chimney at approx 30 ft high. The ladder line falls pretty
much vertically except for the very end where i have had to divert it
away from a steel cast iron style balcony which surrounds a roof
terrace on the first floor. I figured it would not be good to brush
alongside the balcony as its metal.

Anyway, i am getting some very weird SWR readings even when i am using
my automatic ATU (LDG Z-100. These range from close to 1.1:1 on
40metres all the way up to 3.1: 1 in the middle of the 20 metre band.
I am trying to work out where the problem may lie. So far i have come
up wiith:

...

You might find my article on optimising the G5RV of interest. You will
need to scale for a half size G5RV, so scale the frequency axis of the
graph times two, and when it tells you to check for an electrical half
wave of open wire line at 14Mhz, you need to do it at 28Mhz etc. The
article is athttp://www.vk1od.net/G5RV/optimising.htm.

After some basic DC tests for proper and reliable connection, no short
circuits etc, next is some more serious RF evaluation of the antenna
system.

The commonest reason for a G5RV to perform worse than expected is that
the open wire line is an incorrect length, usually due to not properly
considering its velocity factor. (If you purchased a kit, as so many
people seem to do nowadays, you would hope that the supplier got this
correct... but?) Next is the length of the dipole which is often
regarded as not affected by its environment. (This applies to a
commercial kit as well as a DIY G5RV.) A tape measure is the start of
setting up a G5RV, not the end.

Owen

Owen

Yes it was a commercial antenna and i guess the last thing on my mind
was measuring its length? mmmm.... now you got me thinking, Given this
was far from the cheapest G5RV and from W&S rather than some unknown
on ebay i would have hoped it was 51ft as described. Would i need to
source a willing local fellow to come around with an antenna analyser
or are there some simple tests. I will read the article and give this
some more thought. Thanks for the ideas.

Andy
M3ZLN

Checking Coax Connextion
 

Tam/WB2TT wrote:

Andiroo wrote:
All

Is it possible to check the quality of a coax connection to a PL259
plug without taking the plug apart - i.e. simply by using a
multimeter?

Many thanks

Andy

In a newly installed connector, the most common fault, by far, is a short
from the center conductor to shield. Also, make sure that the opening in
the
center pin is completely filled with solder. For small coax, I usually
stuff
short pieces of heavier wire in there before soldering. You need a fairly
large iron to solder the shield. I found a ~200 W soldering gun works OK.

Tam/WB2TT

There are many ways to install the 83-1SP/PL-259 plugs. The instructions
given on the Amphenol website
(http://www.amphenolrf.com/products/a...ctions/274.pdf) will show
the basics. In addition to what Tam says (use LOTS of soldering iron/gun
heat, and get in/out fast), I found a way to solder the plugs that have
nickel plating on the connector body.

Nickel doesn't like to solder worth a darn, and it will take lots of heat to
burn through it. By the time you do, the cable dielectric (and possibly the
insulator on the cheaper plugs) will turn to mush. It's worse with foamed
polyethylene vs solid polyethylene coaxial cable. Before assembling the
plug onto the cable, remove the plating on the inside circumference of the
plug. A small round file, X-acto knife, or 1/8" drill bit will do the
trick. My soldering "weapon of choice" is a Weller #8200 100/140W unit.

If using RG-58, you have the option of using an Amphenol "field crimp plug",
PN 83-58-FCP which requires no soldering, no special installation (crimping)
tools, and works VERY well. Larsen supplies them in their permanent
mounting kits. I intalled lots of them at a previous gig. One day, I did a
test of how well they hang onto the cable. I installed one on a scrap piece
of cable, hooked the connector into a vise, and pulled on the cable until
something gave. The cable broke. They're $2.92 each (in QTY = 10 to 24)
from Digi-Key.

Bryan WA7PRC

Checking Coax Connextion
 

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 23:29:36 -0700, Richard Clark
wrote:

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 22:39:21 -0700, Andiroo
wrote:

All

Is it possible to check the quality of a coax connection to a PL259
plug without taking the plug apart - i.e. simply by using a
multimeter?

Hi-potting would be better as it *may* find whiskers which the
multimeter will not, but the multimeter will find the majority of
problems.

73

Roger (K8RI)

Hi Andy,

With both ends in your lap:
shells, end to end - very low Ohms;
pins, end to end - very low Ohms;
shell to pin, either end - infinite Ohms.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Checking Coax Connextion
 

Bryan wrote:
There are many ways to install the 83-1SP/PL-259 plugs. The
instructions given on the Amphenol website
(http://www.amphenolrf.com/products/a...ctions/274.pdf) will
show the basics. In addition to what Tam says (use LOTS of soldering
iron/gun heat, and get in/out fast), I found a way to solder the plugs
that have nickel plating on the connector body.

Nickel doesn't like to solder worth a darn, and it will take lots of
heat to burn through it. By the time you do, the cable dielectric (and
possibly the insulator on the cheaper plugs) will turn to mush. It's
worse with foamed polyethylene vs solid polyethylene coaxial cable.
Before assembling the plug onto the cable, remove the plating on the
inside circumference of the plug. A small round file, X-acto knife, or
1/8" drill bit will do the trick.

An even better way is to file *across* the holes, cutting the brass body
down to two thin feather edges which are easier to solder.

My soldering "weapon of choice" is a Weller #8200 100/140W unit.

For anyone who doesn't already have a large iron, I'd recommend buying
an inexpensive hot air gun instead.

If you use the hot air gun to pre-heat the connector body, your existing
25W iron can handle the soldering part.

Another use for the hot air gun is with heat-shrink tubing, so it's $20
well spent. The only risk is that someone may ask you to strip paint
with it.


--

73 from Ian GM3SEK 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek

Checking Coax Connextion
 

Ian White GM3SEK wrote:
Bryan wrote:
There are many ways to install the 83-1SP/PL-259 plugs. The
instructions given on the Amphenol website
(http://www.amphenolrf.com/products/a...ctions/274.pdf) will
show the basics. In addition to what Tam says (use LOTS of soldering
iron/gun heat, and get in/out fast), I found a way to solder the plugs
that have nickel plating on the connector body.

Nickel doesn't like to solder worth a darn, and it will take lots of
heat to burn through it. By the time you do, the cable dielectric (and
possibly the insulator on the cheaper plugs) will turn to mush. It's
worse with foamed polyethylene vs solid polyethylene coaxial cable.
Before assembling the plug onto the cable, remove the plating on the
inside circumference of the plug. A small round file, X-acto knife, or
1/8" drill bit will do the trick.

An even better way is to file *across* the holes, cutting the brass body
down to two thin feather edges which are easier to solder.

Even better is to do both. Removing the plating inside the hole will
promote the flow of solder across the junction of connector body to shield,
which is what we want.

My soldering "weapon of choice" is a Weller #8200 100/140W unit.

For anyone who doesn't already have a large iron, I'd recommend buying
an inexpensive hot air gun instead.

If you use the hot air gun to pre-heat the connector body, your existing
25W iron can handle the soldering part.

Preheating the connector is a technique I've used, when I didn't have a
large iron handy.

Another use for the hot air gun is with heat-shrink tubing, so it's $20
well spent. The only risk is that someone may ask you to strip paint
with it.
--

73 from Ian GM3SEK 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek

Bryan WA7PRC

Checking Coax Connextion
 

Bryan wrote:
An even better way is to file *across* the holes, cutting the brass body
down to two thin feather edges which are easier to solder.

Even better is to do both. Removing the plating inside the hole will
promote the flow of solder across the junction of connector body to
shield, which is what we want.

Sorry, I cannot have explained that clearly enough.

If you do what I suggested, there is no point in removing the plating
from the inside wall of the hole first, because you're going to file all
of that metal away.

Keep filing until the inside wall is completely gone, and the hole is
surrounded by a sharp edge that tapers to zero. At that point, stop
filing - it's ready for soldering.


--

73 from Ian GM3SEK 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek

Checking Coax Connextion
 

"Ian White GM3SEK" wrote in message
...
Bryan wrote:
An even better way is to file *across* the holes, cutting the brass body
down to two thin feather edges which are easier to solder.

Even better is to do both. Removing the plating inside the hole will
promote the flow of solder across the junction of connector body to
shield, which is what we want.

Sorry, I cannot have explained that clearly enough.

If you do what I suggested, there is no point in removing the plating from
the inside wall of the hole first, because you're going to file all of
that metal away.

Keep filing until the inside wall is completely gone, and the hole is
surrounded by a sharp edge that tapers to zero. At that point, stop
filing - it's ready for soldering.


--

73 from Ian GM3SEK 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek

Let me see if I have this straight. You are filing on the round part of the
connector barrel where it has the 2, 3, or 4 holes for soldering to the
shield. You use a narrow flat file, and file just short of the point where
the holes would become oblong?

Tam/WB2TT

Checking Coax Connextion
 

Tam/WB2TT wrote:

Let me see if I have this straight. You are filing on the round part of
the connector barrel where it has the 2, 3, or 4 holes for soldering to
the shield. You use a narrow flat file, and file just short of the
point where the holes would become oblong?

Pretty much... I hope this picture helps make more sense of it:
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek/misc/pl259.jpg

I actually use a 5/32 round file or rasp. Stop filing when the hole is
just beginning to become larger, and has thin, sharp edges all round.
The thin edges and bare brass make soldering much easier.


--

73 from Ian GM3SEK 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek

Checking Coax Connextion
 

Wouldn't it be simpler, cheaper, and easier to just use crimp
connectors? There is the cost of the crimping tool and die set, but
it's a one time investment, The cable is much easier to prepare
whether you strip it by hand or use a stripper, and the connections
are much more mechanically sound than the standard PL-259.

BTW I do solder the center pin even after crimping.

Good, silver plated PL-259s run on the order of $2.50 each (give or
take depending on how many you purchase. Silver plated N-type
connectors run around $5.00 USD, again give or take depending on how
many you purchase and they use the same die set as the PL-259s.

Considering cost and durability I've gone to all crimp connectors in
place of the solder type.

I water proof connectors and splices with MMM, flooded heat shrink
tubing. http://www.rogerhalstead.com/ham_files/connectors.htm shows
the application of the tubing although that was before I went to the
crimp connectors.

73

Roger (K8RI)