Low Noise Receiving antennas
Steve wrote:
On Oct 11, 2:37 pm, Tony Giacometti wrote: Steve wrote: On Oct 11, 1:38 pm, Tony Giacometti wrote: I live in a neighborhood that as the years have gone on has added a number of new homes. This has increased the electrical "noise" for me where S1 or S2 on 80 meters 6-8 yrs ago is now S7 to S9. At this point in time I don't have the room for a K9AY setup. I can only "dream" of a beverage. I have a Timewave ANC-4 which works very well on 40 meters as I can null out ALL the "noise". Not so on 80 meters as it only knocks it down 2 S Units. At best I have an S-6 noise level. This leads me to believe that I need a separate sensing antenna for 80 meters. Anyone have any ideas for this problem? Is this thinking correct? I have been looking at low noise receiving loops and other low noise antennas. Wellbrook athttp://www.wellbrook.uk.com/seemsto have some interresting possibilities, but some of the reviews I have read have made me hesistant to purchase any of their products. What I need is some serious input from anyone who has any experience and knowledge in dealing with low band noise issues. As I am now space limited due to all the new neighbors any solution would need to take this into consideration. TIA What kind of sense antenna are you currently using? I use an active whip as a sense antenna (specifically, an H-800 "Skymatch" antenna) and it enables me to squash *any* noise on 80 meters using my ANC-4. I use a small dipole like antenna where one half is at 45 degrees the feed point is a few inches above ground and the other side runs paralle to ground about 1-2 inches above ground. I think the whole sense antenna is about 6 ft long and runs in a straight line. I will look up the H-800 on the web. Did you try various antennas and configurations before you settled on the H-800? What made you decide to go with the H-800? I tried different "antennas" and configurations, for this location this has worked out the best that I have found. I do realize there could be a zazillion different antennas and configurations.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I tried lots and lots of different sense antennas and got varying results. The H-800 gives me the best results from among all the sense antennas I've tried, though of course this could be a function of the particular kinds of noise present at my QTH. I will say this. Because I live in an urban area it's been my aim to defeat RFI in every way possible. I use one of the Wellbrook loops and that helps, but nothing has been as big a help as the ANC-4 WHEN MATCHED with the right sense antenna. Part of me suspects that the ideal setup, at least for me, would involve having a couple of different active whips to switch back and forth between. I think the H-800 does well on 80 meters because it's quite sensitive there. However, it's quite a bit less sensitive on, say, 20 meters and I'll bet I'd get better results using a different active whip, or perhaps a wire, on higher frequencies. I have never considered an active antenna for the sense antenna. Maybe that would work here. I wonder if anyone else is doing the same thing or if you have "found" something really unique. |
Low Noise Receiving antennas
On Oct 11, 3:39 pm, Tony Giacometti wrote:
Steve wrote: On Oct 11, 2:37 pm, Tony Giacometti wrote: Steve wrote: On Oct 11, 1:38 pm, Tony Giacometti wrote: I live in a neighborhood that as the years have gone on has added a number of new homes. This has increased the electrical "noise" for me where S1 or S2 on 80 meters 6-8 yrs ago is now S7 to S9. At this point in time I don't have the room for a K9AY setup. I can only "dream" of a beverage. I have a Timewave ANC-4 which works very well on 40 meters as I can null out ALL the "noise". Not so on 80 meters as it only knocks it down 2 S Units. At best I have an S-6 noise level. This leads me to believe that I need a separate sensing antenna for 80 meters. Anyone have any ideas for this problem? Is this thinking correct? I have been looking at low noise receiving loops and other low noise antennas. Wellbrook athttp://www.wellbrook.uk.com/seemstohave some interresting possibilities, but some of the reviews I have read have made me hesistant to purchase any of their products. What I need is some serious input from anyone who has any experience and knowledge in dealing with low band noise issues. As I am now space limited due to all the new neighbors any solution would need to take this into consideration. TIA What kind of sense antenna are you currently using? I use an active whip as a sense antenna (specifically, an H-800 "Skymatch" antenna) and it enables me to squash *any* noise on 80 meters using my ANC-4. I use a small dipole like antenna where one half is at 45 degrees the feed point is a few inches above ground and the other side runs paralle to ground about 1-2 inches above ground. I think the whole sense antenna is about 6 ft long and runs in a straight line. I will look up the H-800 on the web. Did you try various antennas and configurations before you settled on the H-800? What made you decide to go with the H-800? I tried different "antennas" and configurations, for this location this has worked out the best that I have found. I do realize there could be a zazillion different antennas and configurations.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I tried lots and lots of different sense antennas and got varying results. The H-800 gives me the best results from among all the sense antennas I've tried, though of course this could be a function of the particular kinds of noise present at my QTH. I will say this. Because I live in an urban area it's been my aim to defeat RFI in every way possible. I use one of the Wellbrook loops and that helps, but nothing has been as big a help as the ANC-4 WHEN MATCHED with the right sense antenna. Part of me suspects that the ideal setup, at least for me, would involve having a couple of different active whips to switch back and forth between. I think the H-800 does well on 80 meters because it's quite sensitive there. However, it's quite a bit less sensitive on, say, 20 meters and I'll bet I'd get better results using a different active whip, or perhaps a wire, on higher frequencies. I have never considered an active antenna for the sense antenna. Maybe that would work here. I wonder if anyone else is doing the same thing or if you have "found" something really unique.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I know at least one other person who does it. He uses one of the McKay- Dymek whips. I tried the H-800 simply because I already had it laying around. I couldn't quite see buying an H-800 just for use as a sense antenna, as they're fairly expensive, but I've seen them go on ebay for not too much. Active whips can be real noise magnets. A huge disadvantage if you're using one as your receive antenna, but a big plus if noise is what you want it to hear! |
Low Noise Receiving antennas
Steve wrote:
On Oct 11, 3:39 pm, Tony Giacometti wrote: Steve wrote: On Oct 11, 2:37 pm, Tony Giacometti wrote: Steve wrote: On Oct 11, 1:38 pm, Tony Giacometti wrote: I live in a neighborhood that as the years have gone on has added a number of new homes. This has increased the electrical "noise" for me where S1 or S2 on 80 meters 6-8 yrs ago is now S7 to S9. At this point in time I don't have the room for a K9AY setup. I can only "dream" of a beverage. I have a Timewave ANC-4 which works very well on 40 meters as I can null out ALL the "noise". Not so on 80 meters as it only knocks it down 2 S Units. At best I have an S-6 noise level. This leads me to believe that I need a separate sensing antenna for 80 meters. Anyone have any ideas for this problem? Is this thinking correct? I have been looking at low noise receiving loops and other low noise antennas. Wellbrook athttp://www.wellbrook.uk.com/seemstohave some interresting possibilities, but some of the reviews I have read have made me hesistant to purchase any of their products. What I need is some serious input from anyone who has any experience and knowledge in dealing with low band noise issues. As I am now space limited due to all the new neighbors any solution would need to take this into consideration. TIA What kind of sense antenna are you currently using? I use an active whip as a sense antenna (specifically, an H-800 "Skymatch" antenna) and it enables me to squash *any* noise on 80 meters using my ANC-4. I use a small dipole like antenna where one half is at 45 degrees the feed point is a few inches above ground and the other side runs paralle to ground about 1-2 inches above ground. I think the whole sense antenna is about 6 ft long and runs in a straight line. I will look up the H-800 on the web. Did you try various antennas and configurations before you settled on the H-800? What made you decide to go with the H-800? I tried different "antennas" and configurations, for this location this has worked out the best that I have found. I do realize there could be a zazillion different antennas and configurations.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I tried lots and lots of different sense antennas and got varying results. The H-800 gives me the best results from among all the sense antennas I've tried, though of course this could be a function of the particular kinds of noise present at my QTH. I will say this. Because I live in an urban area it's been my aim to defeat RFI in every way possible. I use one of the Wellbrook loops and that helps, but nothing has been as big a help as the ANC-4 WHEN MATCHED with the right sense antenna. Part of me suspects that the ideal setup, at least for me, would involve having a couple of different active whips to switch back and forth between. I think the H-800 does well on 80 meters because it's quite sensitive there. However, it's quite a bit less sensitive on, say, 20 meters and I'll bet I'd get better results using a different active whip, or perhaps a wire, on higher frequencies. I have never considered an active antenna for the sense antenna. Maybe that would work here. I wonder if anyone else is doing the same thing or if you have "found" something really unique.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I know at least one other person who does it. He uses one of the McKay- Dymek whips. I tried the H-800 simply because I already had it laying around. I couldn't quite see buying an H-800 just for use as a sense antenna, as they're fairly expensive, but I've seen them go on ebay for not too much. Active whips can be real noise magnets. A huge disadvantage if you're using one as your receive antenna, but a big plus if noise is what you want it to hear! But what you are saying is when you use the active antenna with the ANC-4 it works very well for cancelling out the noise. |
Low Noise Receiving antennas
On Oct 11, 10:38 am, Tony Giacometti wrote:
I live in a neighborhood that as the years have gone on has added a number of new homes. This has increased the electrical "noise" for me where S1 or S2 on 80 meters 6-8 yrs ago is now S7 to S9. At this point in time I don't have the room for a K9AY setup. I can only "dream" of a beverage. I have a Timewave ANC-4 which works very well on 40 meters as I can null out ALL the "noise". Not so on 80 meters as it only knocks it down 2 S Units. At best I have an S-6 noise level. This leads me to believe that I need a separate sensing antenna for 80 meters. Anyone have any ideas for this problem? Is this thinking correct? I have been looking at low noise receiving loops and other low noise antennas. Wellbrook athttp://www.wellbrook.uk.com/seems to have some interresting possibilities, but some of the reviews I have read have made me hesistant to purchase any of their products. What I need is some serious input from anyone who has any experience and knowledge in dealing with low band noise issues. As I am now space limited due to all the new neighbors any solution would need to take this into consideration. TIA Hi, Tony. Several years ago I decided to put my ham radio station back on the air. The tallest trees on my property here in Central Oregon are junipers, about 35 feet tall. I managed to get the ends of a 40 meter dipole up towards the top of the trees. It was fed with coax and a balun. Petty noisy. Later, I decided to try the old tried and true folded dipole using 300 ohm TV twinlead and an antenna tuner. This time I was able to get a 75 meter antenna up into the junipers. When I connected the antenna/tuner the receiver, there was no noise. I actually went outside and checked for something shorted. Then I checked the antenna for continuity with an ohm meter. All was ok. This was mid-day and there were no stations on 75 m. I tuned other bands and there was plenty of activity and very little noise. Later I began to hear stations from the mid-west on 75 meters. Bottom line, I think if you can find the room for a folded dipole or other loop type antenna you will be surprised how much your noise level goes down. Best of luck. Paul, KD7HB |
Low Noise Receiving antennas
On Oct 11, 4:22 pm, Tony Giacometti wrote:
Steve wrote: On Oct 11, 3:39 pm, Tony Giacometti wrote: Steve wrote: On Oct 11, 2:37 pm, Tony Giacometti wrote: Steve wrote: On Oct 11, 1:38 pm, Tony Giacometti wrote: I live in a neighborhood that as the years have gone on has added a number of new homes. This has increased the electrical "noise" for me where S1 or S2 on 80 meters 6-8 yrs ago is now S7 to S9. At this point in time I don't have the room for a K9AY setup. I can only "dream" of a beverage. I have a Timewave ANC-4 which works very well on 40 meters as I can null out ALL the "noise". Not so on 80 meters as it only knocks it down 2 S Units. At best I have an S-6 noise level. This leads me to believe that I need a separate sensing antenna for 80 meters. Anyone have any ideas for this problem? Is this thinking correct? I have been looking at low noise receiving loops and other low noise antennas. Wellbrook athttp://www.wellbrook.uk.com/seemstohavesome interresting possibilities, but some of the reviews I have read have made me hesistant to purchase any of their products. What I need is some serious input from anyone who has any experience and knowledge in dealing with low band noise issues. As I am now space limited due to all the new neighbors any solution would need to take this into consideration. TIA What kind of sense antenna are you currently using? I use an active whip as a sense antenna (specifically, an H-800 "Skymatch" antenna) and it enables me to squash *any* noise on 80 meters using my ANC-4. I use a small dipole like antenna where one half is at 45 degrees the feed point is a few inches above ground and the other side runs paralle to ground about 1-2 inches above ground. I think the whole sense antenna is about 6 ft long and runs in a straight line. I will look up the H-800 on the web. Did you try various antennas and configurations before you settled on the H-800? What made you decide to go with the H-800? I tried different "antennas" and configurations, for this location this has worked out the best that I have found. I do realize there could be a zazillion different antennas and configurations.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I tried lots and lots of different sense antennas and got varying results. The H-800 gives me the best results from among all the sense antennas I've tried, though of course this could be a function of the particular kinds of noise present at my QTH. I will say this. Because I live in an urban area it's been my aim to defeat RFI in every way possible. I use one of the Wellbrook loops and that helps, but nothing has been as big a help as the ANC-4 WHEN MATCHED with the right sense antenna. Part of me suspects that the ideal setup, at least for me, would involve having a couple of different active whips to switch back and forth between. I think the H-800 does well on 80 meters because it's quite sensitive there. However, it's quite a bit less sensitive on, say, 20 meters and I'll bet I'd get better results using a different active whip, or perhaps a wire, on higher frequencies. I have never considered an active antenna for the sense antenna. Maybe that would work here. I wonder if anyone else is doing the same thing or if you have "found" something really unique.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I know at least one other person who does it. He uses one of the McKay- Dymek whips. I tried the H-800 simply because I already had it laying around. I couldn't quite see buying an H-800 just for use as a sense antenna, as they're fairly expensive, but I've seen them go on ebay for not too much. Active whips can be real noise magnets. A huge disadvantage if you're using one as your receive antenna, but a big plus if noise is what you want it to hear! But what you are saying is when you use the active antenna with the ANC-4 it works very well for cancelling out the noise.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Right. The whip is just a noise antenna in my setup. |
Low Noise Receiving antennas
On Oct 11, 1:38 pm, Tony Giacometti wrote:
I live in a neighborhood that as the years have gone on has added a number of new homes. This has increased the electrical "noise" for me where S1 or S2 on 80 meters 6-8 yrs ago is now S7 to S9. At this point in time I don't have the room for a K9AY setup. I can only "dream" of a beverage. I have a Timewave ANC-4 which works very well on 40 meters as I can null out ALL the "noise". Not so on 80 meters as it only knocks it down 2 S Units. At best I have an S-6 noise level. This leads me to believe that I need a separate sensing antenna for 80 meters. Anyone have any ideas for this problem? Is this thinking correct? I have been looking at low noise receiving loops and other low noise antennas. Wellbrook athttp://www.wellbrook.uk.com/seems to have some interresting possibilities, but some of the reviews I have read have made me hesistant to purchase any of their products. What I need is some serious input from anyone who has any experience and knowledge in dealing with low band noise issues. As I am now space limited due to all the new neighbors any solution would need to take this into consideration. TIA Just out of curiosity, have you tried locating the noise source. I had the same experience you are having more or less. I had been away from ham radio for a couple of years and when I fired it all up again HF was really noisy so I ran the radio off of battery while I shut down power to my house. I found the source of the noise was the display on my microwave oven. Short term solution was keeping the microwave unplugged until needed. Long term solution was replacing the microwave. I did this when i found a better one at Goodwill for less than $20. Also check for RF on the coax during transmit. During rx this means the antenna is also picking up signals from the shield which may be in close proximity to noise generators. Jimmie |
Low Noise Receiving antennas
JIMMIE wrote:
On Oct 11, 1:38 pm, Tony Giacometti wrote: I live in a neighborhood that as the years have gone on has added a number of new homes. This has increased the electrical "noise" for me where S1 or S2 on 80 meters 6-8 yrs ago is now S7 to S9. At this point in time I don't have the room for a K9AY setup. I can only "dream" of a beverage. I have a Timewave ANC-4 which works very well on 40 meters as I can null out ALL the "noise". Not so on 80 meters as it only knocks it down 2 S Units. At best I have an S-6 noise level. This leads me to believe that I need a separate sensing antenna for 80 meters. Anyone have any ideas for this problem? Is this thinking correct? I have been looking at low noise receiving loops and other low noise antennas. Wellbrook athttp://www.wellbrook.uk.com/seems to have some interresting possibilities, but some of the reviews I have read have made me hesistant to purchase any of their products. What I need is some serious input from anyone who has any experience and knowledge in dealing with low band noise issues. As I am now space limited due to all the new neighbors any solution would need to take this into consideration. TIA Just out of curiosity, have you tried locating the noise source. I had the same experience you are having more or less. I had been away from ham radio for a couple of years and when I fired it all up again HF was really noisy so I ran the radio off of battery while I shut down power to my house. I found the source of the noise was the display on my microwave oven. Short term solution was keeping the microwave unplugged until needed. Long term solution was replacing the microwave. I did this when i found a better one at Goodwill for less than $20. Also check for RF on the coax during transmit. During rx this means the antenna is also picking up signals from the shield which may be in close proximity to noise generators. Jimmie I did a good assessment of the noise being heard here. I found an electric razor charger that was some of the problem and a computer printer was another I found. So my home is quite clean unless something else has popped up which I don't know about and can't locate. I test with power on and power off. Right now theres very little difference if any between the two. I would think its coming from someplace else, but until I can come up with the exact location I need to decide on a solution thats effective. |
Low Noise Receiving antennas
On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 20:03:08 -1000, Tony Giacometti
wrote: JIMMIE wrote: On Oct 11, 1:38 pm, Tony Giacometti wrote: I live in a neighborhood that as the years have gone on has added a number of new homes. This has increased the electrical "noise" for me where S1 or S2 on 80 meters 6-8 yrs ago is now S7 to S9. At this point in time I don't have the room for a K9AY setup. I can only "dream" of a beverage. I have a Timewave ANC-4 which works very well on 40 meters as I can null out ALL the "noise". Not so on 80 meters as it only knocks it down 2 S Units. At best I have an S-6 noise level. This leads me to believe that I need a separate sensing antenna for 80 meters. Anyone have any ideas for this problem? Is this thinking correct? I have been looking at low noise receiving loops and other low noise antennas. Wellbrook athttp://www.wellbrook.uk.com/seems to have some interresting possibilities, but some of the reviews I have read have made me hesistant to purchase any of their products. What I need is some serious input from anyone who has any experience and knowledge in dealing with low band noise issues. As I am now space limited due to all the new neighbors any solution would need to take this into consideration. TIA Just out of curiosity, have you tried locating the noise source. I had the same experience you are having more or less. I had been away from ham radio for a couple of years and when I fired it all up again HF was really noisy so I ran the radio off of battery while I shut down power to my house. I found the source of the noise was the display on my microwave oven. Short term solution was keeping the microwave unplugged until needed. Long term solution was replacing the microwave. I did this when i found a better one at Goodwill for less than $20. Also check for RF on the coax during transmit. During rx this means the antenna is also picking up signals from the shield which may be in close proximity to noise generators. Jimmie I did a good assessment of the noise being heard here. I found an electric razor charger that was some of the problem and a computer printer was another I found. So my home is quite clean unless something else has popped up which I don't know about and can't locate. I test with power on and power off. Right now theres very little difference if any between the two. I would think its coming from someplace else, but until I can come up with the exact location I need to decide on a solution thats effective. Understand your problem. In the Netherlands we live rather dense to each other. Consequently when you are a ham and try to receive something you are confronted with a blanket of man-made noise from various sources. Mainly they are coming from switched power supplies in some kind. It's almost impossible to adress all neighbours and de-noise the equipment. In NL the responsible salesman should remove these kind of QRM, you will imagine that it will cost a lot of effort convince him that his product is causing the problem. To get around, you can sample the noise, reverse it and add it to your antenna signal. The QRM is simply nulled out. The earlier mentioned ANC-4 is doing that, however I understood it's not capable to to do the job very well. Same goes for the MFJ-1025. Have a look at the page of pa0sim http://www.pa0sim.nl/Phaser%2080%20-%2010%20meters.htm Don't worry it's in English and it gives you some ideas how you can tackle the noise/qrm problem. If have your QRM sensor is correctly placed for picking up the "noise" and feedback it, it should do the trick. Alternatively, for those who have not the man made noise problem, you can null-out a short skip station in favour of that DX station you would like to work. Jan/pa3abk |
Low Noise Receiving antennas
If you don't mind spending the bucks, you might want to investigate DXengineering's Noise Canceling Controller. See
http://www.dxengineering.com/Products.asp?ID={6F07CEB4-27D0-4664-A2AA-352A69ED88CD}&SecID=114&DeptID=12 "pa3abk" wrote in message ... On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 20:03:08 -1000, Tony Giacometti wrote: JIMMIE wrote: On Oct 11, 1:38 pm, Tony Giacometti wrote: I live in a neighborhood that as the years have gone on has added a number of new homes. This has increased the electrical "noise" for me where S1 or S2 on 80 meters 6-8 yrs ago is now S7 to S9. At this point in time I don't have the room for a K9AY setup. I can only "dream" of a beverage. I have a Timewave ANC-4 which works very well on 40 meters as I can null out ALL the "noise". Not so on 80 meters as it only knocks it down 2 S Units. At best I have an S-6 noise level. This leads me to believe that I need a separate sensing antenna for 80 meters. Anyone have any ideas for this problem? Is this thinking correct? I have been looking at low noise receiving loops and other low noise antennas. Wellbrook athttp://www.wellbrook.uk.com/seems to have some interresting possibilities, but some of the reviews I have read have made me hesistant to purchase any of their products. What I need is some serious input from anyone who has any experience and knowledge in dealing with low band noise issues. As I am now space limited due to all the new neighbors any solution would need to take this into consideration. TIA Just out of curiosity, have you tried locating the noise source. I had the same experience you are having more or less. I had been away from ham radio for a couple of years and when I fired it all up again HF was really noisy so I ran the radio off of battery while I shut down power to my house. I found the source of the noise was the display on my microwave oven. Short term solution was keeping the microwave unplugged until needed. Long term solution was replacing the microwave. I did this when i found a better one at Goodwill for less than $20. Also check for RF on the coax during transmit. During rx this means the antenna is also picking up signals from the shield which may be in close proximity to noise generators. Jimmie I did a good assessment of the noise being heard here. I found an electric razor charger that was some of the problem and a computer printer was another I found. So my home is quite clean unless something else has popped up which I don't know about and can't locate. I test with power on and power off. Right now theres very little difference if any between the two. I would think its coming from someplace else, but until I can come up with the exact location I need to decide on a solution thats effective. Understand your problem. In the Netherlands we live rather dense to each other. Consequently when you are a ham and try to receive something you are confronted with a blanket of man-made noise from various sources. Mainly they are coming from switched power supplies in some kind. It's almost impossible to adress all neighbours and de-noise the equipment. In NL the responsible salesman should remove these kind of QRM, you will imagine that it will cost a lot of effort convince him that his product is causing the problem. To get around, you can sample the noise, reverse it and add it to your antenna signal. The QRM is simply nulled out. The earlier mentioned ANC-4 is doing that, however I understood it's not capable to to do the job very well. Same goes for the MFJ-1025. Have a look at the page of pa0sim http://www.pa0sim.nl/Phaser%2080%20-%2010%20meters.htm Don't worry it's in English and it gives you some ideas how you can tackle the noise/qrm problem. If have your QRM sensor is correctly placed for picking up the "noise" and feedback it, it should do the trick. Alternatively, for those who have not the man made noise problem, you can null-out a short skip station in favour of that DX station you would like to work. Jan/pa3abk |
Low Noise Receiving antennas
On Oct 13, 8:48 pm, "John, N9JG" wrote:
If you don't mind spending the bucks, you might want to investigate DXengineering's Noise Canceling Controller. Seehttp://www.dxengineering.com/Products.asp?ID={6F07CEB4-27D0-4664-A2AA-352A69ED88CD}&SecID=114&DeptID=12 I'd love to hear from someone who's tried this phasing unit. If it's really light years ahead of the Timewave and MFJ units, I'd say it's worth the bucks. |
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