Probably a stupid question...
 

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
et...
Dave wrote:
I do appreciate all of the feedback, and the patience with my ignorance.

Have you considered a screwdriver antenna? Many hams
try a whip with an autotuner, are dissatisfied, and
wind up with a screwdriver antenna for a 12 dB
improvement, at least on 3.8 MHz.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Hey Cecil,

Not sure what a screwdriver antenna is. Off to Google...

Dave

Probably a stupid question...
 

wrote in message
ups.com...
Dave,
In a nut-shell, a larger antenna will tend to be more 'receptive'
at lower frequencies.

Agree. Years ago I was an avid broadcast band (BCB) DX'er, usually getting
what I wanted late at night. However, when I installed about a 50-foot
dipole wrapped around the inside of my garage, I found an exciting number of
distant stations available during the day. It seems old hat today, but the
experience was valid, I think.

Probably a stupid question...
 

"Sal M. Onella" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ups.com...
Dave,
In a nut-shell, a larger antenna will tend to be more 'receptive'
at lower frequencies.

Agree. Years ago I was an avid broadcast band (BCB) DX'er, usually
getting
what I wanted late at night. However, when I installed about a 50-foot
dipole wrapped around the inside of my garage, I found an exciting number
of
distant stations available during the day. It seems old hat today, but
the
experience was valid, I think.



Oh, I understand that a larger antenna is much more receptive. And I have a
110' random wire that does wonders. I am just wanting some sort of
reception booster to take with me if we have to bug out for a hurricane
again. That, and the challange interests me.

Dave

Probably a stupid question...
 

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 07:31:14 -0600, "Dave" wrote:

I am just wanting some sort of
reception booster to take with me if we have to bug out for a hurricane
again.

Hi Dave,

Was my successful experience of adding 4 meters of wire height too
simple? Didn't it cost enough? Was it too low tech?

That, and the challange interests me.

It would seem the bar is especially low as it is - that or this
appeals to some notion of having a wrist SW radio a la Dick Tracy.

There have been lots of special challenges posted here in the past
that outperform. One might be instructive that several regulars here
might remember: Pound a nail into a tree and connect your whip
antenna to that. Reports would suggest DX opportunities abound.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Probably a stupid question...
 

Richard Clark wrote:

There have been lots of special challenges posted here in the past
that outperform. One might be instructive that several regulars here
might remember: Pound a nail into a tree and connect your whip
antenna to that. Reports would suggest DX opportunities abound.

I just knew you wood say that.


- 73 de Mike N3LI -

Probably a stupid question...
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...

"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
...

"Dave" wrote in message
...

Hey Ralph, thanks for coming in. I am wondering though if I can't tune
out some of the noise,and eliminate more with a directional antenna
(which I currently don't have.) Would an IF stage not help me here? Or
a second tuning function, on the output? Just wondering.

Do appreciate your comments. If I'm wrong I'm wrong, I was just
thinking these things might help. No? The signal I am trying to clean
up is at 9335 kHz.


Dave you started with a simple whip 40 some inches long. As I mentioned
, no mater how much amplification you have , the local and not so local
noise will limit the ammount of amplification you can use. All you will
amplify is noise. Lets say you have a noise floor of .3 microvolts and a
signal is picked up from the antenna of .4 microvolts. Your signal will
be higher than the noise and you can hear it to some extent. If the
noise is .5 microvolts and you get the same signal , then you will not
hear the signal. If you add an amplifier (one that has no noise of its
own , which is impossiable bu the way) you may get .8 uv of signal, but
you will then have 1.0 uv of noise and you will still not hear the
signal. The amp may add .1 uv of noise so you then get 1.1 uv of noise
and only .8 uv of signal.

You may change the antenna to a tuned loop. Take a couple of sticks
about 3 feet long and make an X out of them and wrap a few turns of wire
around the outside of the X so you have a loop about 3 feet square and
tune it with a capacitor to the frequency you wish to hear and it will be
somewhat directional. That may help.

The main thing is that a 3 foot whip in the house is not going to be a
very good antenna for shortwave.



Huuuuhhhh. Okay, I think I am beginning to understand. At least, when you
put it in those terms.

I had thought about using a loop, but for some reason decided to try the
whip first. I guess 'cause that's what I had handy, and I wasn't sure how
I would mount a loop. Until I can figure that out, I am going to try
tuning the output of the RF amplifier the same way I tune the input. If I
can work out the last detail of doing that.

Your words, and numbers, are much appreciated. And your patience.

Thanks, Ralph.

Dave



Okay, tuning the output along with the input does help, but it's still very
close to what the built in whip on the 7600GR does. The only real
difference between now and before is less noise, which makes the
intelligence more accessible (easier to understand what they're saying.)
Time to try the loop, for directional input. I still wonder if something I
thought about a while back might work, which is to mount a second whip on
the other side of the case and seperate them with coax internally. I had
some numbers in mind at one time, but have forgotten them. Roy Lewellan
suggested I try EZNec, but I haven't been able to dedicate as much time to
it as I thought I would. And someone I met is mailing me a copy of the CD
from the latest ARRL Antenna Handbook. It is my understanding that phased
verticles have been completely re-addressed in this latest copy, which
interests me. For some reason books, even on the computer, speak to me more
easily than applications for modeling given situations. Going to go try
EZNec again.

One thing I realized, to my own benefit. The house has steel siding, and
that degrades the performance of the 'whipped' RF amplifier considerably.
Outside, in the driveway, it works as well as it does inside, off of the
external 110' random wire. Which is a better performance by at least a
factor of 10 when compared to inside, off of the whip. I'm going to keep
squeezing this lemon. One way or another. It keeps improving by
considerable steps, I just have to work the bugs out.

Thanks all, for ideas and feedback. And patience.

Dave

Probably a stupid question...
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...

"Dave" wrote in message
...

"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
...

"Dave" wrote in message
...

Hey Ralph, thanks for coming in. I am wondering though if I can't tune
out some of the noise,and eliminate more with a directional antenna
(which I currently don't have.) Would an IF stage not help me here?
Or a second tuning function, on the output? Just wondering.

Do appreciate your comments. If I'm wrong I'm wrong, I was just
thinking these things might help. No? The signal I am trying to clean
up is at 9335 kHz.


Dave you started with a simple whip 40 some inches long. As I mentioned
, no mater how much amplification you have , the local and not so local
noise will limit the ammount of amplification you can use. All you will
amplify is noise. Lets say you have a noise floor of .3 microvolts and
a signal is picked up from the antenna of .4 microvolts. Your signal
will be higher than the noise and you can hear it to some extent. If
the noise is .5 microvolts and you get the same signal , then you will
not hear the signal. If you add an amplifier (one that has no noise of
its own , which is impossiable bu the way) you may get .8 uv of signal,
but you will then have 1.0 uv of noise and you will still not hear the
signal. The amp may add .1 uv of noise so you then get 1.1 uv of noise
and only .8 uv of signal.

You may change the antenna to a tuned loop. Take a couple of sticks
about 3 feet long and make an X out of them and wrap a few turns of wire
around the outside of the X so you have a loop about 3 feet square and
tune it with a capacitor to the frequency you wish to hear and it will
be somewhat directional. That may help.

The main thing is that a 3 foot whip in the house is not going to be a
very good antenna for shortwave.



Huuuuhhhh. Okay, I think I am beginning to understand. At least, when
you put it in those terms.

I had thought about using a loop, but for some reason decided to try the
whip first. I guess 'cause that's what I had handy, and I wasn't sure
how I would mount a loop. Until I can figure that out, I am going to
try tuning the output of the RF amplifier the same way I tune the input.
If I can work out the last detail of doing that.

Your words, and numbers, are much appreciated. And your patience.

Thanks, Ralph.

Dave



Okay, tuning the output along with the input does help, but it's still
very close to what the built in whip on the 7600GR does. The only real
difference between now and before is less noise, which makes the
intelligence more accessible (easier to understand what they're saying.)
Time to try the loop, for directional input. I still wonder if something
I thought about a while back might work, which is to mount a second whip
on the other side of the case and seperate them with coax internally. I
had some numbers in mind at one time, but have forgotten them. Roy
Lewellan suggested I try EZNec, but I haven't been able to dedicate as
much time to it as I thought I would. And someone I met is mailing me a
copy of the CD from the latest ARRL Antenna Handbook. It is my
understanding that phased verticles have been completely re-addressed in
this latest copy, which interests me. For some reason books, even on the
computer, speak to me more easily than applications for modeling given
situations. Going to go try EZNec again.

One thing I realized, to my own benefit. The house has steel siding, and
that degrades the performance of the 'whipped' RF amplifier considerably.
Outside, in the driveway, it works as well as it does inside, off of the
external 110' random wire. Which is a better performance by at least a
factor of 10 when compared to inside, off of the whip. I'm going to keep
squeezing this lemon. One way or another. It keeps improving by
considerable steps, I just have to work the bugs out.

Thanks all, for ideas and feedback. And patience.

Dave



Crap. Just read my own post and realized I misspelled Roy Lewallen's last
name. My apologies. It's not been a good day...

Dave

Probably a stupid question...
 

Dave wrote:

Crap. Just read my own post and realized I misspelled Roy Lewallen's last
name. My apologies. It's not been a good day...

Don't feel bad. My sister-in-law still spells it like you did, and I've
been married to her sister for 39 years. Many years ago, I idly
collected misspellings from mail, memos, and the like, and had
accumulated more than 30 different ones when I lost interest.

One way is just as good as another, anyway. My particular spelling came
from the first literate person in my branch of the family who, in about
1850, spelled it like it sounded to him. His brother, and many other
relatives as they each became literate, spelled it in various other
ways. Including, I'm sure, the way you did. Considering the family's
history, it wouldn't surprise me if there are still a few branches yet
to become literate and devise their own spellings.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Probably a stupid question...
 

On 13 Nov, 18:10, Roy Lewallen wrote:
Dave wrote:

Crap. Just read my own post and realized I misspelled Roy Lewallen's last
name. My apologies. It's not been a good day...

Don't feel bad. My sister-in-law still spells it like you did, and I've
been married to her sister for 39 years. Many years ago, I idly
collected misspellings from mail, memos, and the like, and had
accumulated more than 30 different ones when I lost interest.

One way is just as good as another, anyway. My particular spelling came
from the first literate person in my branch of the family who, in about
1850, spelled it like it sounded to him. His brother, and many other
relatives as they each became literate, spelled it in various other
ways. Including, I'm sure, the way you did. Considering the family's
history, it wouldn't surprise me if there are still a few branches yet
to become literate and devise their own spellings.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Roy's surname is of Welsh origin. Queen Bodacia and her sisters
prevented
Romans who had conquered England in the BC era from conquering Wales.
There is a statue of that defiant queen on the side of the River
Thames
opposite the House of Commons and the House of Lords( and Big Ben).
Roy does not spell his name as in the traditional Welsh language.
Probably those on Ellis Island misspelled it not understanding the
lilting
accent of a Welsh miner.
Art

Probably a stupid question...
 

"art" wrote in message
oups.com...
On 13 Nov, 18:10, Roy Lewallen wrote:
Dave wrote:

Crap. Just read my own post and realized I misspelled Roy Lewallen's
last
name. My apologies. It's not been a good day...

Don't feel bad. My sister-in-law still spells it like you did, and I've
been married to her sister for 39 years. Many years ago, I idly
collected misspellings from mail, memos, and the like, and had
accumulated more than 30 different ones when I lost interest.

One way is just as good as another, anyway. My particular spelling came
from the first literate person in my branch of the family who, in about
1850, spelled it like it sounded to him. His brother, and many other
relatives as they each became literate, spelled it in various other
ways. Including, I'm sure, the way you did. Considering the family's
history, it wouldn't surprise me if there are still a few branches yet
to become literate and devise their own spellings.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Roy's surname is of Welsh origin. Queen Bodacia and her sisters
prevented
Romans who had conquered England in the BC era from conquering Wales.
There is a statue of that defiant queen on the side of the River
Thames
opposite the House of Commons and the House of Lords( and Big Ben).
Roy does not spell his name as in the traditional Welsh language.
Probably those on Ellis Island misspelled it not understanding the
lilting
accent of a Welsh miner.
Art


LOL. Sounds like my own family history, with the great grandfather paying
to change the spelling of the last name to correct it, and actually screwing
it up. He couldn't read either, but somehow he got the idea that it was
wrong, and went to the legal trouble of "straightening it out." Yeah,
right. :)

Thanks, I needed that this morning.

Dave