Superposition
 

Gene Fuller wrote:
Cecil Moore wrote:
Gene Fuller wrote:
We were talking about the equivalent of AR glass, with no reflections.

Sorry Gene, there are reflections from AR glass because
the index of refraction is in the ballpark of 1.2222.
The non-existence of reflections from a 1.0 to 1.2
transition in the index of refraction is impossible.

Do you see yourself when you look into an AR mirror? That would
explain a lot.

Of course, human eyes cannot respond in 1/2 of a cycle
at light frequencies. If one had an instrument sensitive
enough, one would see that exact reflection during the
first 1/2 cycle. And it never goes away - it just gets
canceled by a complimentary reflection from the "load".

Maybe we need to slow it down to your brain speed. Would
a two second delay in the beginning of the cancellation
process work for you? SGCL is a Signal Generator equipped
with a Circulator and Load resistor. The lines are lossless.
t0 is when the source wave is first incident upon the
impedance discontinuity at '+'.

Rho=0.7143
100w SGCL--50 ohm line--+--1 sec long 300 ohm line--50 ohm load

At t0+1 sec, a 51 watt reflection exists at point '+' and the
forward power on the 300 ohm line is 49 watts. That 51 watt
reflected wave exists for the two seconds it takes the reflected
wave from the load to arrive. That 51 watt reflected wave is
warming up the load resistor in the circulator during that
time.

You say that 51 watt reflection never existed. Good luck
on being able to prove your assertion.

You gas on about something that you believe happens in 1/2 cycle, and
you want ME to prove something???

1/2 cycle is a real amount of time in which things happen.
Denying it because you cannot see it is ridiculous.
I slowed everything down for you so it takes two seconds
for something to happen. Why are you afraid to discuss it?
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Superposition
 

Cecil Moore wrote:

When an EM wave disappears in its original direction of
travel, what happens to its energy?

What happens to the energy flowing in the lamp cord when you turn out
your desk lamp? :-)

73, ac6xg

Superposition
 

On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 12:38:34 -0800, Jim Kelley wrote:



Cecil Moore wrote:

When an EM wave disappears in its original direction of
travel, what happens to its energy?

What happens to the energy flowing in the lamp cord when you turn out
your desk lamp? :-)

73, ac6xg

Now that's funny!

Walt, W2DU

Superposition
 

Jim Kelley wrote:


Cecil Moore wrote:

When an EM wave disappears in its original direction of
travel, what happens to its energy?

What happens to the energy flowing in the lamp cord when you turn out
your desk lamp? :-)

73, ac6xg


Better question might be, when a run of conductor just happens to be
resonate/impedance-matched at 60Hz, why isn't massive amounts of 60Hz
ELF being radiated?

Certainly the internal resistance of the multi-megawatt generator(s)
isn't a factor ... chuckle

Regards,
JS

Superposition
 

Jim Kelley wrote:

Cecil Moore wrote:
When an EM wave disappears in its original direction of
travel, what happens to its energy?

What happens to the energy flowing in the lamp cord when you turn out
your desk lamp? :-)

It still exists. It just ceases to be converted to
heat. Do you believe energy can be destroyed?

We know the EM reflected wave is not converted to
heat. So its energy still exists as EM energy.
Where does that energy go?
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Superposition
 

On 27 Nov, 06:00, Cecil Moore wrote:
Jim Kelley wrote:

Cecil Moore wrote:
When an EM wave disappears in its original direction of
travel, what happens to its energy?

What happens to the energy flowing in the lamp cord when you turn out
your desk lamp? :-)

It still exists. It just ceases to be converted to
heat. Do you believe energy can be destroyed?

We know the EM reflected wave is not converted to
heat. So its energy still exists as EM energy.
Where does that energy go?
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Ceci,
If I have a 20 foot barge pole in my hand
and I poke somebody with it heat is generated
at the other end of the pole. There is no energy
left in the pole!
Art

Superposition
 

art wrote:
If I have a 20 foot barge pole in my hand
and I poke somebody with it heat is generated
at the other end of the pole. There is no energy
left in the pole!

Actually Art, there is plenty of energy left in
the pole. The kinetic energy may be gone but the
potential energy and atomic energy are still
there. Remember e=mc^2?
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Superposition
 

On Nov 27, 9:00 am, Cecil Moore wrote:
Jim Kelley wrote:

Cecil Moore wrote:
When an EM wave disappears in its original direction of
travel, what happens to its energy?

What happens to the energy flowing in the lamp cord when you turn out
your desk lamp? :-)

It still exists. It just ceases to be converted to
heat. Do you believe energy can be destroyed?

I am surprised you did not provide a more complete answer to the
question.

When the switch is opened it creates a point with a reflection
coefficient of 1 so
all the energy reaching the point is 100% reflected. This reflected
energy flows
back along the line until it reaches a distribution transformer where
it is
transformed back into the transmission system. It then flows back
along the
transmission system until it reaches the generator (passing through
several
transformers along the way). Of course, there are numerous impedance
discontinuities which make computation more complex and increase the
settling time, but the priniciple of reflected energy still holds.

For convenience, we assume the generator is in a hydraulic plant
which
transforms the energy of flowing water into electricity. This is
reversable, so
the reflected energy is transformed through the generator and turbine
into a
reflected water flow which flows up the penstock. Of course, the net
water
flow is still downhill, but never forget that there is a real forward
flow and a
real reflected flow of water.

It is a bit harder to explain where the reflected ernergy goes in a
thermal
plant because the process does not appear reversible, that is, energy
into
the generator is not obviously converted back into coal. Still, it
must happen
somehow. After all the generator in the thermal plant is fundamentally
the
same as the one in the hydraulic. This leads to the inescapble
conclusion
that there must be reflected coal trains carrying coal back to the
mines,
though the net flow is still from the mine to the thermal plant.

Or is it just possible that some have been overextending a mostly
useful tool?

....Keith

Superposition
 

Keith Dysart wrote:
Cecil Moore wrote:

Jim Kelley wrote:
What happens to the energy flowing in the lamp cord when you turn out
your desk lamp? :-)

It still exists. It just ceases to be converted to
heat. Do you believe energy can be destroyed?

I am surprised you did not provide a more complete answer to the
question.

I did "provide a more complete answer" the last time Jim
made that identical comment.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Superposition
 

On 27 Nov, 07:02, Cecil Moore wrote:
art wrote:
If I have a 20 foot barge pole in my hand
and I poke somebody with it heat is generated
at the other end of the pole. There is no energy
left in the pole!

Actually Art, there is plenty of energy left in
the pole. The kinetic energy may be gone but the
potential energy and atomic energy are still
there. Remember e=mc^2?
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Yes, but every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
(Newton)
There was no action in the pole other than at the ends
where the forces were kinetic. There was no change to
the potential energy. As far as Einsteins is concerned
his work is still a subject of contention.
Art