On Dec 7, 10:13 am, Mike Coslo wrote

Doesn't work that way, sir.

If I say that antennas work by shooting little turds off the ends of the
wires, it isn't Roy's job to prove it, it's mine.

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

Hi Mike
What you say is very true, but, Art is not looking for
confirmation
he has already stated that he is not going to hand his findings to
this group on a plate.
What he is trying to do is guide others to find for themselves what
he already knows.

Derek

On 6 Dec, 18:07, Derek wrote:
On Dec 7, 10:13 am, Mike Coslo wrote



Doesn't work that way, sir.

If I say that antennas work by shooting little turds off the ends of the
wires, it isn't Roy's job to prove it, it's mine.

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

Hi Mike
What you say is very true, but, Art is not looking for
confirmation
he has already stated that he is not going to hand his findings to
this group on a plate.
What he is trying to do is guide others to find for themselves what
he already knows.

Derek

Impossible to do that if they don't understand the basics of physics!
I was hoping an inquisitive educated person would come along and read
but we rarely have such a visitor as the groups reputation procedes
us.
I will put the subject away for a more suitable time where it can be
properly debated.On top of that none are able to operate a antenna
computor program or even want to which bring things to a dead end.
Enuf for now. For the present I will call it a day and move on.
Art

On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 18:37:38 -0800, art wrote:

Impossible to do that if they don't understand the basics of physics!

Respectfully disagree.

I have met people who can explain quantum theory in a manner that a
normal high school student can understand.

I have also met people who make sharpening a pencil incomprehensible.

If a person cannot explain something so that an another intelligent
person can get at least a rudimentary grasp, the fault does not lie with
the person looking for the education.

--
-73 de Mike N3LI -

On 8 Dec, 17:39, Mike Coslo wrote:
On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 18:37:38 -0800, art wrote:
Impossible to do that if they don't understand the basics of physics!

Respectfully disagree.

I have met people who can explain quantum theory in a manner that a
normal high school student can understand.

I have also met people who make sharpening a pencil incomprehensible.

If a person cannot explain something so that an another intelligent
person can get at least a rudimentary grasp, the fault does not lie with
the person looking for the education.

--
-73 de Mike N3LI -

Mike ,
I agree with you, it is my fault but one I cannot rectify.
After having a life without medical problems one suddenly
go thru one after the other. Physical problems you can
find a way to accomodate or adjust for them. Mental problems
are a different animal when you can't read a book because
your memory doesn't extend to the end of a line. To boot
this has left me bipolar which you will have to read up for yourself
but now external stress has a larger impact on your life tho in
the last month I have been questioned more than once at hospital
on the living will of my wife you fortunately has survived a
few large hurdles. I am not asking for sympathy as I can handle
adversity
but not in the way I used to do since I am a shell of who I was.
Fortunately I have few worries, no debts,a couple of mercedes
and this laptop and a loving family who dotes upon me.
There are some on the group whose minds are agile enough
to make concessions with respect to my postings. Others of
different backgrounds have difficulty but it is something
I cannot correct, only time can do that and I have little left.
Again, just explaining the complications that I have personaly
but at the same time stating that in myself I am a satisfied
and happy man and bear no ill will to anybody and very,
very proud to be an Englishman.( yes I am a US citizen)
I will leave it at that and that will be the end of my
personal explanation
Best regards
Art Unwin KB9MZ...xg (uk)

Mike Coslo wrote:

...
I have also met people who make sharpening a pencil incomprehensible.

If a person cannot explain something so that an another intelligent
person can get at least a rudimentary grasp, the fault does not lie with
the person looking for the education.


Right on!

I interact with both types, preferring the latter. The purpose here is
to learn something I am ignorant of and not to be whamboozled by
self-importance ...

Regards,
JS

On Dec 9, 2:23 am, John Smith wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote:

...

I have also met people who make sharpening a pencil incomprehensible.

If a person cannot explain something so that an another intelligent
person can get at least a rudimentary grasp, the fault does not lie with
the person looking for the education.

Right on!

I interact with both types, preferring the latter. The purpose here is
to learn something I am ignorant of and not to be whamboozled by
self-importance ...

The challenge for the "person looking for the education" is
deciding who is doing the "whamboozling".

....Keith

Keith Dysart wrote:

...
The challenge for the "person looking for the education" is
deciding who is doing the "whamboozling".

...Keith

Keith:

In any given situation, many factors may come into play ...

A person may just be so damn ignorant he/she looks to be whamboozling,
this is different. Personally, been there--done that--most likely, not
for the last time.

But, you know what I mean--self-importance can be a drug which is as
addicting as any. Hero worship, guru/child relationships, etc.--I have
little use for.

Frankly, I learn more from the argument and debate here than I do from a
bunch of "experts" all slapping one another on the back!--drives me to
drag out a smith chart and refresh on ohms/mhos and why mhos are now
siemens, where to locate the locus and which direction to move, etc.--it
won't kill me/us ... I don't personally care if the "experts" are
proficient in using one, do-them-in-their-sleep, etc.--I want to do it
for myself, make-all-the-standard-mistakes, and come out knowing a bit
more than when I walked in--if at times I look like a fool, so be
it!--don't hold your breath, I am working on it ...

Regards,
JS

Derek wrote in
:

On Dec 7, 10:13 am, Mike Coslo wrote

Doesn't work that way, sir.

If I say that antennas work by shooting little turds off the ends of
the wires, it isn't Roy's job to prove it, it's mine.

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

Hi Mike
What you say is very true, but, Art is not looking for
confirmation he has already stated that he is not going to hand his
findings to
this group on a plate.
What he is trying to do is guide others to find for themselves what
he already knows.

In my attempts to engage art, he's rebuffed my knowledge (more like lack
of it) I'm supposed to come back after I learn more. But learn what?
Theory that he declares is incorrect, or his theories which he won't
serve up? The others will share with me.

I'm just not much of a fan of faith based engineering! ;^)

To convince others of a new and radical departure from what exists and
what apparently works, one nust offer good proofs. The old
"extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" chestnut applies. And
especially for people such as Roy, who has often been decried by Art. He
is under no obligation to prove Art either right or wrong.

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

On Dec 6, 8:07 pm, Derek wrote:


Hi Mike
What you say is very true, but, Art is not looking for
confirmation

He wants RRAA validation.. :/

he has already stated that he is not going to hand his findings to
this group on a plate.

After the 3496 miles of fairly incoherant jibber jabber I've read of
his,
I'm so confused I don't even know what his "findings" would be. :/
They seem to change from week to week anyway.
He was touting maximum horizontal polarization, but in his latest
post claims vertical is the only way to fly.
He'll claim all elements are fed in phase, but then claim only
one element is fed. He claims that if you are not using a full
wavelength element, you are not living, and just don't get it.
Like the old codger with too many dogs in "Moonstruck", I'm confused..
:/
But if you talk to Art, he is the only sane one in the group, and
we are all the confused ones.
Everyone, including the electronic engineers of the group are all
living in the past, brain dead, or just don't get it.
But Art, the mechanical engineer who is dabbling in an area
he is not really trained for, has all the answers, and is ready
to rewrite all the books.
I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for this vast overhaul
of gaussian equalibriated gobblygook into the future textbooks..
I have no problem at all with anyone trying new ideas, but
they should test and prove them before proclaiming as fact,
rather than the other way around.
Art talks a great storm, but I see little indication he actually
builds and tests what he is talking about.
As I've muttered before, that is no way to live.
Want to know what the real deal is?
I can tell you.
Delusions of grandeur brought on by his various computer
modeling programs he tinkers with.
He stumbles into something he finds interesting when
modeling, and then he tries to use gaussian bafflegab to
explain it as some new invention. I'm serious.
I can see no other explanation for this behavior.

What he is trying to do is guide others to find for themselves what
he already knows.

How does he know I want to find what he already thinks he knows?
He seems to want to gravitate towards small overly lossy antennas
designed using fairly perverted theories of operation.
I'll have none of that mess around this household.
I want big manly ultra efficient antennas that brown the food in all
directions at once.
MK