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Tin Coated Copper Strand Inferior for Wire HF Ant?
Hi. I have spool of #12 industrial grade tin coated copper strand
wire that I had planned on building a 40 meter vertical loop with. While scouring the web, I came across a white paper on wire, tubing and RF compatibility, and it said that tin-coated copper was "somewhat inferior", but silver coated or pure copper strand were fine for antenna use. Contrary to this, I have read in this Newsgroup that tin or silver coating is a must-have for good RF radiation. Any views on tin coated copper strand? Also, where do you all find Copperweld? It sounds ideal, but I haven't been able to find it anywhere. Thanks! |
Tin Coated Copper Strand Inferior for Wire HF Ant?
Denno wrote:
Hi. I have spool of #12 industrial grade tin coated copper strand wire that I had planned on building a 40 meter vertical loop with. While scouring the web, I came across a white paper on wire, tubing and RF compatibility, and it said that tin-coated copper was "somewhat inferior", but silver coated or pure copper strand were fine for antenna use. Contrary to this, I have read in this Newsgroup that tin or silver coating is a must-have for good RF radiation. Any views on tin coated copper strand? Also, where do you all find Copperweld? It sounds ideal, but I haven't been able to find it anywhere. Thanks! Ohhh gawd, it that a "loaded" question? I would use it, the lead/tin darkens (oxidizes) with age, so does copper and most other metals, gold would be nice--too expensive, stainless would be nice--but then the ohmic losses, use it! ... End of story... It won't be the last antenna you construct, build it and learn! Warm regards, JS |
Tin Coated Copper Strand Inferior for Wire HF Ant?
I agree with JS, just put it up and make contacts.
Best stuff around, of course not, but if you already have it the price is right. Have been told by I don't know how many people that twisted steel wire is no good. Our local phone co-op lays it out across the fields when the ground is frozen, hence "field wire", until spring when they can trench the "good stuff" in. Come spring they roll it up, a mile at a time, and chuck it in the dump. This stuff is plastic coated, does not break down in UV. You can just about use it to pull a car out of the ditch it is so strong. It is a real bugger to wrap or solder, needless to say. If you put an antenna analyzer on it, get the length right it makes a dandy antenna however. Even the ice and snow of northeast Montana have not managed to bring them down in over 8 years. Coated all connections with Liquid Electricians Tape, they still look like new. Best antenna around, not a chance, BUT, I have yet to have to repair one I have put up, that says a lot for this part of the country. Sam - K7SAM |
Tin Coated Copper Strand Inferior for Wire HF Ant?
Topaz305RK wrote:
... Best antenna around, not a chance, BUT, I have yet to have to repair one I have put up, that says a lot for this part of the country. Sam - K7SAM Geesh, where'd you come from? Best example of the American "can do" spirit I have seen--lately ... Yes, that is why we came to the hobby, huh? Warmest regards, JS |
Tin Coated Copper Strand Inferior for Wire HF Ant?
On Dec 28, 7:58 pm, John Smith wrote:
Topaz305RK wrote: ... Best antenna around, not a chance, BUT, I have yet to have to repair one I have put up, that says a lot for this part of the country. Sam - K7SAM Geesh, where'd you come from? Best example of the American "can do" spirit I have seen--lately ... Yes, that is why we came to the hobby, huh? Warmest regards, JS That's what I was hoping. Actually, I have a few other dipoles out there with similar stuff and they've been fine. Some antennas are for other folks so I want to be sure it doesn't turn into a disaster. I know from experience that tin-coated copper strand is used in the marine industry because the tin makes the copper much more corrosion resistant. As for Copperweld, anyone ever use it? Not sure what you meant by "loaded question". :-) But I don't visit the NG's very often. Thanks, Denno |
Tin Coated Copper Strand Inferior for Wire HF Ant?
Tin plated wire has higher resistivity than solid copper wire. However,
in nearly all common antenna applications, the loss of even tin plated wire is insignificant. So it's just fine to use. Likewise, stranded vs. solid wire. Any of the above are just fine. As for Copperweld, I googled "copperweld" and immediately found that Davis RF carries it. I'm sure that you'd find several other dealers if you'll invest just a couple of minutes looking through search engine results. Roy Lewallen, W7EL Denno wrote: Hi. I have spool of #12 industrial grade tin coated copper strand wire that I had planned on building a 40 meter vertical loop with. While scouring the web, I came across a white paper on wire, tubing and RF compatibility, and it said that tin-coated copper was "somewhat inferior", but silver coated or pure copper strand were fine for antenna use. Contrary to this, I have read in this Newsgroup that tin or silver coating is a must-have for good RF radiation. Any views on tin coated copper strand? Also, where do you all find Copperweld? It sounds ideal, but I haven't been able to find it anywhere. Thanks! |
Tin Coated Copper Strand Inferior for Wire HF Ant?
Denno wrote:
... That's what I was hoping. Actually, I have a few other dipoles out there with similar stuff and they've been fine. Some antennas are for other folks so I want to be sure it doesn't turn into a disaster. I know from experience that tin-coated copper strand is used in the marine industry because the tin makes the copper much more corrosion resistant. As for Copperweld, anyone ever use it? Not sure what you meant by "loaded question". :-) But I don't visit the NG's very often. Thanks, Denno I am a "hobbyist", perhaps like yourself ... Some might think the oxidization of the tin, copper, etc. may result in increased losses (and yes, I have heard this argued--I can only guess) --indeed, logic itself suggests this. I don't know. I have not even attempted to measure it. And, I lack the ability to measure such and my "experiments" take me another avenue ... from use of "oxidized antennas", I don't think it amounts to a significant reduction in "perceived and/or real performance." Contacts are important ... I would doubt the antenna you propose would be without them ... Warm regards, JS |
Tin Coated Copper Strand Inferior for Wire HF Ant?
Roy Lewallen wrote:
... Also, where do you all find Copperweld? It sounds ideal, but I haven't been able to find it anywhere. Thanks! Roys' knowledge it much better than my own, I would listen, if it were me ... and, just sounds right ... I thought "copperweld" was a heavy copper coating over iron/steel wire, and, if that is what your refer to, it is excellent (like the stuff I used decades ago), it was hard to "stretch!" Regards, JS |
Tin Coated Copper Strand Inferior for Wire HF Ant?
John Smith Oh wrote:
Roy Lewallen wrote: ... Also, where do you all find Copperweld? It sounds ideal, but I haven't been able to find it anywhere. Thanks! Roys' knowledge it much better than my own, I would listen, if it were me ... and, just sounds right ... I thought "copperweld" was a heavy copper coating over iron/steel wire, and, if that is what your refer to, it is excellent (like the stuff I used decades ago), it was hard to "stretch!" Regards, JS "knowledge it" = "knowledge is"--but then, you knew that ... gawd, I need to examine my text before posting it ... ;-) Oh well ... JS |
Tin Coated Copper Strand Inferior for Wire HF Ant?
Also, where do you all find Copperweld? It sounds ideal, but I haven't been able to find it anywhere. Thanks! Copperweld, or "copper clad steel" antenna wire should not be hard to find. http://www.radioworks.com carries some good coperweld. Belden makes a #14 stranded (7) coppeweld antenna wire, available at http://www.aesham.com , amongst other places. Personally, I'd use the nice stuff you already have. Good luck. Ed K7AAT |
Tin Coated Copper Strand Inferior for Wire HF Ant?
On Dec 29, 1:09 am, "Ed_G" wrote:
Also, where do you all find Copperweld? It sounds ideal, but I haven't been able to find it anywhere. Thanks! Copperweld, or "copper clad steel" antenna wire should not be hard to find. http://www.radioworks.com carries some good coperweld. Belden makes a #14 stranded (7) coppeweld antenna wire, available athttp://www.aesham.com, amongst other places. Personally, I'd use the nice stuff you already have. Good luck. Ed K7AAT Thanks so much for the info and opinions. I should have mentioned I am looking for a national supplier of this wire that just may have a branch near where I live. Mail order for something that can get pretty heavy and expensive to ship is something I try to avoid. Shipping costs have skyrocketed along with the price of copper! I try to keep my posts brief; otherwise they seldom are read. I wasn't aware that Belden made this type of copper clad wire. That gives me another avenue to investigate. Thanks. And, yes, I did use google to search for a local supplier. I found all the mail order places. It amazes me how in so many forums there is some ass lurking in the corner to make a pointed remark towards someone they don't even know. Sheesh! |
Tin Coated Copper Strand Inferior for Wire HF Ant?
Denno wrote:
Hi. I have spool of #12 industrial grade tin coated copper strand wire that I had planned on building a 40 meter vertical loop with. While scouring the web, I came across a white paper on wire, tubing and RF compatibility, and it said that tin-coated copper was "somewhat inferior", but silver coated or pure copper strand were fine for antenna use. Contrary to this, I have read in this Newsgroup that tin or silver coating is a must-have for good RF radiation. Any views on tin coated copper strand? Also, where do you all find Copperweld? It sounds ideal, but I haven't been able to find it anywhere. Thanks! You know, I just went to the metal scapers and had a "look about", came up with some interesting copper "pipe" 2+ inches, brass pipe and fittings, very HEAVY wire, etc. 5+ bucks a pound for copper! You just never know, do you ... the coaxial tank for the 2 meter band I am planning will be great, and of course, I am going to attempt coupling "to" that "magical" standing wave ... thanks Cecil!, without 'yas, I'd be bored! Will have more to say once I "have seen" what this can tell me ... Regards, JS |
Tin Coated Copper Strand Inferior for Wire HF Ant?
John Smith wrote:
[...] Actually, the brass pipe is 2+ inches in ID. Substantial stuff, apparently came from "fire house", bar, or ???? Will do a true coaxial tank, then a coaxial tank tuned with a var. cap., and then a helical resonator ... that should cover the subject. First thing I am planning is a tank circuit for the FM broadcast band, nice freq there ... a bit above HF and a bit below uhf ... and, even a cb'er might appreciate the effort! GRIN Regards, JS a |
Tin Coated Copper Strand Inferior for Wire HF Ant?
Thanks so much for the info and opinions. I should have mentioned I am looking for a national supplier of this wire that just may have a branch near where I live. Mail order for something that can get pretty heavy and expensive to ship is something I try to avoid. The Belden copper-clad #14 with 7 strands is Belden PN: 8000 . You should be able to find local distributers for Belden products most places. Also, I do not think that 100 foot spools of Belden 8000 are big or heavy enough to warant any worry about shipping costs.... we are only talking a pound or two. I ordered a couple hundred feet of this some years ago and don't believe the shipping costs were any concern then. Ed K7AAT |
Tin Coated Copper Strand Inferior for Wire HF Ant?
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Tin Coated Copper Strand Inferior for Wire HF Ant?
In article
, Denno wrote: On Dec 28, 7:58 pm, John Smith wrote: Topaz305RK wrote: ... Best antenna around, not a chance, BUT, I have yet to have to repair one I have put up, that says a lot for this part of the country. Sam - K7SAM Geesh, where'd you come from? Best example of the American "can do" spirit I have seen--lately ... Yes, that is why we came to the hobby, huh? Warmest regards, JS That's what I was hoping. Actually, I have a few other dipoles out there with similar stuff and they've been fine. Some antennas are for other folks so I want to be sure it doesn't turn into a disaster. I know from experience that tin-coated copper strand is used in the marine industry because the tin makes the copper much more corrosion resistant. As for Copperweld, anyone ever use it? Not sure what you meant by "loaded question". :-) But I don't visit the NG's very often. Thanks, Denno In the Marine Radio Biz, we ALWAYS use 7/20 Phosphor/Bronze as LF/MF/HF Antenna Wire. It doesn't corrode in the Salt Atmosphere, and has real good Conductivity, when compared to anything else, that would still be around in a couple of months. Of course now that SAT Phones have arrived, not much use for LF/MF/HF in the Marine Comm biz..... -- Bruce in alaska add path after fast to reply |
Tin Coated Copper Strand Inferior for Wire HF Ant?
Denno wrote: Hi. I have spool of #12 industrial grade tin coated copper strand wire that I had planned on building a 40 meter vertical loop with. While scouring the web, I came across a white paper on wire, tubing and RF compatibility, and it said that tin-coated copper was "somewhat inferior", but silver coated or pure copper strand were fine for antenna use. Contrary to this, I have read in this Newsgroup that tin or silver coating is a must-have for good RF radiation. Any views on tin coated copper strand? Also, where do you all find Copperweld? It sounds ideal, but I haven't been able to find it anywhere. Thanks! The guy on the other end of the QSO will never be able to tell the difference between your signals coming from your bare copper wire antenna and those coming from your tinned copper wire antenna. Tinned copper wire is much more corrosion-resistant than any form of bare copper wire and tinned stranded wire is mechanically much more durable than any form of solid wire when used as antennas. http://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/05.htm A 40M loop made from your #12 tinned stranded wire should serve you well for a long time so go for it. My favorite source for all sorts of "ham wires": http://thewireman.com/index.shtml The ultimate antenna wire in my view is his #13 'Toughcoated' tinned stranded 'Copperweld' P/N 531 w3rv .. |
Tin Coated Copper Strand Inferior for Wire HF Ant?
On 29 Dec, 15:09, Brian Kelly wrote:
Denno wrote: Hi. *I have spool of #12 industrial grade tin coated copper strand wire that I had planned on building a 40 meter vertical loop with. While scouring the web, I came across a white paper on wire, tubing and RF compatibility, and it said that tin-coated copper was "somewhat inferior", but silver coated or pure copper strand were fine for antenna use. *Contrary to this, I have read in this Newsgroup that tin or silver coating is a must-have for good RF radiation. Any views on tin coated copper strand? Also, where do you all find Copperweld? *It sounds ideal, but I haven't been able to find it anywhere. Thanks! The guy on the other end of the QSO will never be able to tell the difference between your signals coming from your bare copper wire antenna and those coming from your tinned copper wire antenna. Tinned copper wire is much more corrosion-resistant than any form of bare copper wire and tinned stranded wire is mechanically much more durable than any form of solid wire when used as antennas. http://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/05.htm A 40M loop made from your #12 tinned stranded wire should serve you well for a long time so go for it. My favorite source for all sorts of "ham wires": http://thewireman.com/index.shtml The ultimate antenna wire in my view is his #13 'Toughcoated' tinned stranded 'Copperweld' P/N 531 w3rv . If you have time to wait before you work on your antenna I expect to put an antenna together with #22 tinned solid wire. I intend to wind my wire on a small diameter plastic tubing for a sufficient length to slide onto 3/4 of the circumference leaving the remaining quarter for the wire to stretch to find a sweet spot. When I have reached required the 3/4 length I will then continue the winding back to the starting point so that both feed ponts are close together.It is required that you cut the wire at the end of the windings so that you can unwind each wire end one loop and then fasten the ends with a wire nut. This loosens the turns just enough to make it easier to slide of the former and onto the hula hoop. Tho I am confident that a sweet spot will occur with stretching the windings. It is usefull to add a plate capacitor in series with the feed wire which allows you to move freely the wide existing bandwidth of the helical loop of the antenna. The information given will allow you to procede with building your own if your time is getting short. If you cannot get sufficient wire length on the former for the frequency required then by all means run another wire length over the previous windings before you slide it over the hula hoop. Hoops were less than $5 at Wallmart the last time I looked and they have a insert in the tubing that can be removed for the assembly operation This method of winding gives multiple resonant points way closer than you would find using other methods so the addition of the capacitor if large enough will allow you to cover the other bands. If you are smart you can also stretch the windings at will if you have the need to get closer to alternate frequencies. As a side issue it is much better if you use solid wire insulated wire rathe than stranded as this provides much better outward spring to the loops and some clearance over the hoola hoop during assembly. The above will give the same radiation as if the wire was stretched out but with a minimum of volume used, tho the take of angle rules still stands with respect to height. Also note that with the radiation being concentrated at a relative point basis one should not stand near the hex loop near field for health reasons. Best regards and good luck. Art Unwin KB9MZ...xg |
Tin Coated Copper Strand Inferior for Wire HF Ant?
On Dec 29, 7:54 pm, art wrote:
On 29 Dec, 15:09, Brian Kelly wrote: Denno wrote: Hi. I have spool of #12 industrial grade tin coated copper strand wire that I had planned on building a 40 meter vertical loop with. While scouring the web, I came across a white paper on wire, tubing and RF compatibility, and it said that tin-coated copper was "somewhat inferior", but silver coated or pure copper strand were fine for antenna use. Contrary to this, I have read in this Newsgroup that tin or silver coating is a must-have for good RF radiation. Any views on tin coated copper strand? Also, where do you all find Copperweld? It sounds ideal, but I haven't been able to find it anywhere. Thanks! The guy on the other end of the QSO will never be able to tell the difference between your signals coming from your bare copper wire antenna and those coming from your tinned copper wire antenna. Tinned copper wire is much more corrosion-resistant than any form of bare copper wire and tinned stranded wire is mechanically much more durable than any form of solid wire when used as antennas. http://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/05.htm A 40M loop made from your #12 tinned stranded wire should serve you well for a long time so go for it. My favorite source for all sorts of "ham wires": http://thewireman.com/index.shtml The ultimate antenna wire in my view is his #13 'Toughcoated' tinned stranded 'Copperweld' P/N 531 w3rv . If you have time to wait before you work on your antenna I expect to put an antenna together with #22 tinned solid wire. I intend to wind my wire on a small diameter plastic tubing for a sufficient length to slide onto 3/4 of the circumference leaving the remaining quarter for the wire to stretch to find a sweet spot. When I have reached required the 3/4 length I will then continue the winding back to the starting point so that both feed ponts are close together.It is required that you cut the wire at the end of the windings so that you can unwind each wire end one loop and then fasten the ends with a wire nut. This loosens the turns just enough to make it easier to slide of the former and onto the hula hoop. Tho I am confident that a sweet spot will occur with stretching the windings. It is usefull to add a plate capacitor in series with the feed wire which allows you to move freely the wide existing bandwidth of the helical loop of the antenna. The information given will allow you to procede with building your own if your time is getting short. If you cannot get sufficient wire length on the former for the frequency required then by all means run another wire length over the previous windings before you slide it over the hula hoop. Hoops were less than $5 at Wallmart the last time I looked and they have a insert in the tubing that can be removed for the assembly operation This method of winding gives multiple resonant points way closer than you would find using other methods so the addition of the capacitor if large enough will allow you to cover the other bands. If you are smart you can also stretch the windings at will if you have the need to get closer to alternate frequencies. As a side issue it is much better if you use solid wire insulated wire rathe than stranded as this provides much better outward spring to the loops and some clearance over the hoola hoop during assembly. The above will give the same radiation as if the wire was stretched out but with a minimum of volume used, tho the take of angle rules still stands with respect to height. Also note that with the radiation being concentrated at a relative point basis one should not stand near the hex loop near field for health reasons. Best regards and good luck. Art Unwin KB9MZ...xg Arthur 'ole bean have you gotten too far into your Christmas spirits again? w3rv |
Tin Coated Copper Strand Inferior for Wire HF Ant?
Brian Kelly wrote:
On Dec 29, 7:54 pm, art wrote: On 29 Dec, 15:09, Brian Kelly wrote: Denno wrote: Hi. I have spool of #12 industrial grade tin coated copper strand wire that I had planned on building a 40 meter vertical loop with. While scouring the web, I came across a white paper on wire, tubing and RF compatibility, and it said that tin-coated copper was "somewhat inferior", but silver coated or pure copper strand were fine for antenna use. Contrary to this, I have read in this Newsgroup that tin or silver coating is a must-have for good RF radiation. Any views on tin coated copper strand? Also, where do you all find Copperweld? It sounds ideal, but I haven't been able to find it anywhere. Thanks! The guy on the other end of the QSO will never be able to tell the difference between your signals coming from your bare copper wire antenna and those coming from your tinned copper wire antenna. Tinned copper wire is much more corrosion-resistant than any form of bare copper wire and tinned stranded wire is mechanically much more durable than any form of solid wire when used as antennas. http://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/05.htm A 40M loop made from your #12 tinned stranded wire should serve you well for a long time so go for it. My favorite source for all sorts of "ham wires": http://thewireman.com/index.shtml The ultimate antenna wire in my view is his #13 'Toughcoated' tinned stranded 'Copperweld' P/N 531 w3rv . If you have time to wait before you work on your antenna I expect to put an antenna together with #22 tinned solid wire. I intend to wind my wire on a small diameter plastic tubing for a sufficient length to slide onto 3/4 of the circumference leaving the remaining quarter for the wire to stretch to find a sweet spot. When I have reached required the 3/4 length I will then continue the winding back to the starting point so that both feed ponts are close together.It is required that you cut the wire at the end of the windings so that you can unwind each wire end one loop and then fasten the ends with a wire nut. This loosens the turns just enough to make it easier to slide of the former and onto the hula hoop. Tho I am confident that a sweet spot will occur with stretching the windings. It is usefull to add a plate capacitor in series with the feed wire which allows you to move freely the wide existing bandwidth of the helical loop of the antenna. The information given will allow you to procede with building your own if your time is getting short. If you cannot get sufficient wire length on the former for the frequency required then by all means run another wire length over the previous windings before you slide it over the hula hoop. Hoops were less than $5 at Wallmart the last time I looked and they have a insert in the tubing that can be removed for the assembly operation This method of winding gives multiple resonant points way closer than you would find using other methods so the addition of the capacitor if large enough will allow you to cover the other bands. If you are smart you can also stretch the windings at will if you have the need to get closer to alternate frequencies. As a side issue it is much better if you use solid wire insulated wire rathe than stranded as this provides much better outward spring to the loops and some clearance over the hoola hoop during assembly. The above will give the same radiation as if the wire was stretched out but with a minimum of volume used, tho the take of angle rules still stands with respect to height. Also note that with the radiation being concentrated at a relative point basis one should not stand near the hex loop near field for health reasons. Best regards and good luck. Art Unwin KB9MZ...xg Arthur 'ole bean have you gotten too far into your Christmas spirits again? Heck, Brian, I was just going to suggest that you make some substantional portion of your antennas out of long steel springs. You could tie a rope to an end and change bands by simply letting out on the rope and allowing the springs to compress, heh heh. Dave K8MN |
Tin Coated Copper Strand Inferior for Wire HF Ant?
Dave Heil wrote:
... Heck, Brian, I was just going to suggest that you make some substantional portion of your antennas out of long steel springs. You could tie a rope to an end and change bands by simply letting out on the rope and allowing the springs to compress, heh heh. Dave K8MN Actually, a very good recommendation--for some limited applications ... I have seen just such done, only with phosphor-bronze springs, and of limited frequency bandwidth ... JS |
Tin Coated Copper Strand Inferior for Wire HF Ant?
On 29 Dec, 17:55, John Smith wrote:
Dave Heil wrote: ... Heck, Brian, I was just going to suggest that you make some substantional portion of your antennas out of long steel springs. *You could tie a rope to an end and change bands by simply letting out on the rope and allowing the springs to compress, heh heh. Dave K8MN Actually, a very good recommendation--for some limited applications ... I have seen just such done, only with phosphor-bronze springs, and of limited frequency bandwidth ... JS John As you know from personal experience one can make antenna with windings finishing at the top of the radiator, but it must be seen as being resonant by virtue of the added resistance. This is exactly why Prof Hately was unsuccesful with his contraversal small broadcast band antenna first tested in Egypt, then Australia and then the Isle of Man. This is also also why that antenna made by that guy in Florida(Hart?) is not as efficient as he and Hately led themselves to believe. Remember that our latest antenna inventor from RI also used a single winding type of antenna in a way similar to a slinky to which you were refering to, but then you have to ask yourself why these antennas were not efficient, and why RI and others had to increase the diameter of the radiator wire because their designs melted? All of these antennas problems can be solved just by adding to the antenna length in a contra wound fashion back to the antenna base thus negating the need for ground planes and thicker wire. This is exactly why the loop antenna that I was talking about in another thread is to be made out of #22 wire since, unlike the RI antenna the wire will not melt because of excess heat Instead this lost energy will now contribute to radiation . If you refer to the thread of "current travel down the center of the radiator" in the absence of a radiating surface you will better understand the relationships to Gauss and static law. That thread has now come to a satisfactory completion as far as I am concerned. As for Cecil's postings,that thread will never come to a satisfactory conclusion since the moment in time has not been stipulated. But even if one side or another was proven correct one must ask themselves as to what advantage is it with respect to antennas if agreement is finally arrived at? But then it is well known in psychology circles that agreement can never come about when one of the parties are angry or confused which provides for personal attack Very best regards Art Unwin KB9MZ...xg |
Tin Coated Copper Strand Inferior for Wire HF Ant?
art wrote:
... As for Cecil's postings,that thread will never come to a satisfactory conclusion since the moment in time has not been stipulated. But even if one side or another was proven correct one must ask themselves as to what advantage is it with respect to antennas if agreement is finally arrived at? But then it is well known in psychology circles that agreement can never come about when one of the parties are angry or confused which provides for personal attack Very best regards Art Unwin KB9MZ...xg Art: You have some points, I pay attention to your posts ... I wonder, and that is d*mn well why I came here ... your path is not my own ... As for Cecil, he is attacked by mad dogs, disgusting really ... someday, these dogs will have to rest--and realize how foolish their behavior ... and then, most likely, it will all begin anew. Cecil is interesting, something the others have either forgotten about, or never had ... Regards, JS |
Tin Coated Copper Strand Inferior for Wire HF Ant?
On Dec 29, 8:38 pm, Dave Heil wrote:
Brian Kelly wrote: On Dec 29, 7:54 pm, art wrote: On 29 Dec, 15:09, Brian Kelly wrote: Denno wrote: Hi. I have spool of #12 industrial grade tin coated copper strand wire that I had planned on building a 40 meter vertical loop with. While scouring the web, I came across a white paper on wire, tubing and RF compatibility, and it said that tin-coated copper was "somewhat inferior", but silver coated or pure copper strand were fine for antenna use. Contrary to this, I have read in this Newsgroup that tin or silver coating is a must-have for good RF radiation. Any views on tin coated copper strand? Also, where do you all find Copperweld? It sounds ideal, but I haven't been able to find it anywhere. Thanks! The guy on the other end of the QSO will never be able to tell the difference between your signals coming from your bare copper wire antenna and those coming from your tinned copper wire antenna. Tinned copper wire is much more corrosion-resistant than any form of bare copper wire and tinned stranded wire is mechanically much more durable than any form of solid wire when used as antennas. http://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/05.htm A 40M loop made from your #12 tinned stranded wire should serve you well for a long time so go for it. My favorite source for all sorts of "ham wires": http://thewireman.com/index.shtml The ultimate antenna wire in my view is his #13 'Toughcoated' tinned stranded 'Copperweld' P/N 531 w3rv . If you have time to wait before you work on your antenna I expect to put an antenna together with #22 tinned solid wire. I intend to wind my wire on a small diameter plastic tubing for a sufficient length to slide onto 3/4 of the circumference leaving the remaining quarter for the wire to stretch to find a sweet spot. When I have reached required the 3/4 length I will then continue the winding back to the starting point so that both feed ponts are close together.It is required that you cut the wire at the end of the windings so that you can unwind each wire end one loop and then fasten the ends with a wire nut. This loosens the turns just enough to make it easier to slide of the former and onto the hula hoop. Tho I am confident that a sweet spot will occur with stretching the windings. It is usefull to add a plate capacitor in series with the feed wire which allows you to move freely the wide existing bandwidth of the helical loop of the antenna. The information given will allow you to procede with building your own if your time is getting short. If you cannot get sufficient wire length on the former for the frequency required then by all means run another wire length over the previous windings before you slide it over the hula hoop. Hoops were less than $5 at Wallmart the last time I looked and they have a insert in the tubing that can be removed for the assembly operation This method of winding gives multiple resonant points way closer than you would find using other methods so the addition of the capacitor if large enough will allow you to cover the other bands. If you are smart you can also stretch the windings at will if you have the need to get closer to alternate frequencies. As a side issue it is much better if you use solid wire insulated wire rathe than stranded as this provides much better outward spring to the loops and some clearance over the hoola hoop during assembly. The above will give the same radiation as if the wire was stretched out but with a minimum of volume used, tho the take of angle rules still stands with respect to height. Also note that with the radiation being concentrated at a relative point basis one should not stand near the hex loop near field for health reasons. Best regards and good luck. Art Unwin KB9MZ...xg Arthur 'ole bean have you gotten too far into your Christmas spirits again? Heck, Brian, I was just going to suggest that you make some substantional portion of your antennas out of long steel springs. You could tie a rope to an end and change bands by simply letting out on the rope and allowing the springs to compress, heh heh. Yeah right, I really need rope-tuned Slinkys . . . Dave K8MN w3rv |
Tin Coated Copper Strand Inferior for Wire HF Ant?
Brian Kelly wrote:
On Dec 29, 8:38 pm, Dave Heil wrote: Brian Kelly wrote: Arthur 'ole bean have you gotten too far into your Christmas spirits again? Heck, Brian, I was just going to suggest that you make some substantional portion of your antennas out of long steel springs. You could tie a rope to an end and change bands by simply letting out on the rope and allowing the springs to compress, heh heh. Yeah right, I really need rope-tuned Slinkys . . . Don't give up! I've been reading some of the old ARRL Antenna Handbooks. You're a mechanical guy. I see a chain drive going though a wall, rigged to be aimed using the steering wheel from a '60 Impala. I'm thinking we could rework that rope-tuned slinky idea into something commerically marketable if we use steel cable and stepper motors. We could call it the "Erstepp" or something like that. Dave K8MN |
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