far radials for verticle?
 

hi



I might be able to get permission to put up a simple multiband verticle

i'd have to mount it on the elevator room (brick wall 10ft high) of my
building.

if i got approval, the coop board wouldn't let me put 'radials' off
the base of the antenna they don't like the way it'd look

The roof floor is concreat w/tar then small stones

wondering if i could just burry lots of wires and attach to the
bottom of the mast, so it would be 10ft away from the base of the
antenna, which would be held onto the wall w/a 10ft mast not sure how
that couples but i presume it's base of antenna not base of mast
that counts


how bad would placing the radials be in this manner (all band
verticle)


are there any other alternatives?


the roof of the elevator room is 10ft by 10ft i could put 1 or 2
wires on the base /floor of that but it would all be in 1
compas direction mostly


not sure which is 'best'??


any tips appreciated


thanks

far radials for verticle?
 

Those radials are the 'other half' of the antenna, so having them
'close' to the first half is sort of reasonable, right? Then there's
the 'can't get there from here' problem. So, the 'trick' is to get
around that 'problem', and there are a number of ways of doing that.
None of them are 'best' by any means, but still do-able, sort of.
Since the objection is a 'don't care for the looks' thingy, one method
is to hide them in some way. Run the radials from the base of the
antenna, then cover them so that they sort of 'blend-in' with the
surroundings?
Lumping all the radials on one side or the other tends to make the
antenna sort of directional. Maybe not a 'good' idea, but certainly
better than no antenna at all?
Imagination!
Good luck.
- 'Doc

far radials for verticle?
 

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:09:05 GMT, ml wrote:

i'd have to mount it on the elevator room (brick wall 10ft high) of my
building.

Hi Myles,

Doc's advice covers the antenna. Did you solve your problems with the
elevator control noise? Tell us that story.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

far radials for verticle?
 

In article
,
wrote:

Those radials are the 'other half' of the antenna, so having them
'close' to the first half is sort of reasonable, right? Then there's
the 'can't get there from here' problem. So, the 'trick' is to get
around that 'problem', and there are a number of ways of doing that.
None of them are 'best' by any means, but still do-able, sort of.
Since the objection is a 'don't care for the looks' thingy, one method
is to hide them in some way. Run the radials from the base of the
antenna, then cover them so that they sort of 'blend-in' with the
surroundings?
Lumping all the radials on one side or the other tends to make the
antenna sort of directional. Maybe not a 'good' idea, but certainly
better than no antenna at all?
Imagination!
Good luck.
- 'Doc

hi

thanks for the responce

one question i ponder , o is the 'base' of the antenna (my verticle)
considered the part where it meets my support mast

or the bottom of the support mast?

normally the manufactures radials are at the base of the antenna
and the support mast is physically below that but not sure does that
rf decoupple the metal support pipe?

if i can claim the base of the support mast to be or make it "" be
the bottom then that is near the roof surface and very easy to hide
wire radials in all but 1 direction


the other thought i had is since the wall is 10ft high if the
'base'' is considered the bottom of the antenna (not the support
pipe) then i could run wire radials from there draped over and
down the elevator room then flat horizontal so it would look a
little like a pealed bannana i can then burry the radials at
roof level in all directions


just trying to figure which is the best way to work around the problem

thanks again

Noise// far radials for verticle?
 

In article ,
Richard Clark wrote:

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:09:05 GMT, ml wrote:

i'd have to mount it on the elevator room (brick wall 10ft high) of my
building.

Hi Myles,

Doc's advice covers the antenna. Did you solve your problems with the
elevator control noise? Tell us that story.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

hi

good to hear from ya


unfortunately not too lucky here , i went up to roof sluthing around
w/my analyzer and 817

i sure heard and saw 'noise' i know for sure the elevator room is
throwing out noise

can't yet absoluetely say it's the elevator thats causing my
specific noise sure seems likely thou

i still havn't figured out how many turns to make around my 2x2' X of
26ga wire insul, as i see i will really need a very directional
antenna to pinpoint

seems very easy now to say what seems obvious but doing the actual
finding scientifically is harder then i thought due mostly to my
poor skills

i also when taround the block trying to figure if a lamppost or
inground xformer was noisy but didn't seem soo

only thing i can say for sure is i have s9 noise from 1-15mhz and
maybe s6 from 15mhz to 30mhz and it's seemingly randomly intermittant
off a few min then on a few min or so

i am going to set up a portable 80verticle i have in the bedroom
w/the rig to see if maybe the noise is comming from an adjecent apt

i think i have enough test gear but sorta not sure what do to
track the noise down , never really did that before as far as
specific professional methods and procedures

yet i suspect it's something rather obvious throwing off the noise

i also wonder if it's possible that something in my sgc237 could have
failed such that it would make that noise? it gets prety def when
power is removed so not sure w/that attenuation i could tell and i
can't really sub another at up there i just don't have access to
the roof to easy



i sure do miss hf thou

Noise// far radials for verticle?
 

On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 16:48:25 GMT, ml wrote:

can't yet absoluetely say it's the elevator thats causing my
specific noise sure seems likely thou

Hi Myles,

Trust your instinct on this one = it's the elevator motor controls.

i still havn't figured out how many turns to make around my 2x2' X of
26ga wire insul, as i see i will really need a very directional
antenna to pinpoint

I'm not sure what to make of that. Just use a small SW receiver with
the whip pulled back into the set. Smaller the antenna, the closer
you have to get to the noise. The closer you are, the more obvious
the source.

seems very easy now to say what seems obvious but doing the actual
finding scientifically is harder then i thought due mostly to my
poor skills

Your skills got you to the source of the problem, the difficulty is
more your coming to terms with how to solve it. You aren't going to
get into the elevator control room to fix anything - even if you knew
what to do. Management isn't going to spend money to fix a problem
that doesn't bother them. Ask your neighbors if they have any TV
noise issues that just started - get allies. Think about it, if they
complained about your HF rig messing up American Idol and the building
super came down on you; then they could as easily demand he fix the
elevator for messing up American Idol too.

i think i have enough test gear but sorta not sure what do to
track the noise down , never really did that before as far as
specific professional methods and procedures

Time to look into the gear that does noise canceling. We get a number
of posts here from those who find relief from just your kind of
problem. All it takes is an outboard unit with its own very small
"sniffer" antenna (probably not any bigger than a short 3 foot whip
for your purposes). Twist a couple of controls and the noise plunges
to S3 or so. Maybe someone in the group who knows the vendors can
suggest something here.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC