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R.Scott May 15th 08 05:46 PM

Wrist Rocket Height
 
I'm trying to restring my Dipole up in a Pine (the tree has grown
about 10 ft, and the rope needs replacing) so I got out my trusty
Surgical tubing wrist rocket and a 1oz egg weight tied to my 15# test
fishing rod/reel (only using the bottom eye).

No matter how far I pulled back I got about 2/3s of the way up. Im
estimating that is about the 35 ft level.


Shouldn't a wrister go farther ???? need bigger weight ?

Suggestions.

Lumpy May 15th 08 07:13 PM

Wrist Rocket Height
 
R.Scott wrote:

No matter how far I pulled back I got about 2/3s of the way up. Im
estimating that is about the 35 ft level.


Shouldn't a wrister go farther ???? need bigger weight ?

Suggestions.


Stand on a ladder when you shoot?

New monofilament (more slippery than worn)?

New rubbers?

Skip the bottom eye on the pole and
feed direct from the reel?

Be sure you have a very solid wrist/arm
on the holding arm. If your hand/arm
gives while shooting, some of the
energy will be used in that wasted
hand movement.

I saw a "wrist rifle" that a guy built.
Normal WR attached to a wooden "stock"
with bazooka-like hand holds. The pouch
of the slingshot was held by a steel rod
in the "cocked" position. Just like rubber
band machine guns that kids might build.


Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke

www.n0eq.com



David G. Nagel May 15th 08 07:59 PM

Wrist Rocket Height
 
Lumpy wrote:
R.Scott wrote:

No matter how far I pulled back I got about 2/3s of the way up. Im
estimating that is about the 35 ft level.


Shouldn't a wrister go farther ???? need bigger weight ?

Suggestions.


Stand on a ladder when you shoot?

New monofilament (more slippery than worn)?

New rubbers?

Skip the bottom eye on the pole and
feed direct from the reel?

Be sure you have a very solid wrist/arm
on the holding arm. If your hand/arm
gives while shooting, some of the
energy will be used in that wasted
hand movement.

I saw a "wrist rifle" that a guy built.
Normal WR attached to a wooden "stock"
with bazooka-like hand holds. The pouch
of the slingshot was held by a steel rod
in the "cocked" position. Just like rubber
band machine guns that kids might build.


Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke

www.n0eq.com


If legal use a potato gun....

Dave WD9BDZ

[email protected] May 15th 08 10:34 PM

Wrist Rocket Height
 
On May 15, 11:46 am, "R.Scott" wrote:
I'm trying to restring my Dipole up in a Pine (the tree has grown
about 10 ft, and the rope needs replacing) so I got out my trusty
Surgical tubing wrist rocket and a 1oz egg weight tied to my 15# test
fishing rod/reel (only using the bottom eye).

No matter how far I pulled back I got about 2/3s of the way up. Im
estimating that is about the 35 ft level.

Shouldn't a wrister go farther ???? need bigger weight ?

Suggestions.


Sounds like a bigger weight would help.

Dave May 15th 08 11:21 PM

Wrist Rocket Height
 

wrote in message
...
On May 15, 11:46 am, "R.Scott" wrote:
I'm trying to restring my Dipole up in a Pine (the tree has grown
about 10 ft, and the rope needs replacing) so I got out my trusty
Surgical tubing wrist rocket and a 1oz egg weight tied to my 15# test
fishing rod/reel (only using the bottom eye).

No matter how far I pulled back I got about 2/3s of the way up. Im
estimating that is about the 35 ft level.

Shouldn't a wrister go farther ???? need bigger weight ?

Suggestions.


Sounds like a bigger weight would help.


depends... shoot the weight without the fish line and see how far it goes,
that is the max you can get... if that's not enough try new tubes, those
things do age and lose stretch... or longer tubes. for more height without
the line try less weight and see if that gets where you need.

then add the fishing line and see if that drags it down too much... if it
does you need less drag or lighter line. either take the line out of the
reel and let it spool free or unroll it on a smooth surface so it doesn't
have to spin the roll.



Jim Lux May 16th 08 12:23 AM

Wrist Rocket Height
 
wrote:
On May 15, 11:46 am, "R.Scott" wrote:

I'm trying to restring my Dipole up in a Pine (the tree has grown
about 10 ft, and the rope needs replacing) so I got out my trusty
Surgical tubing wrist rocket and a 1oz egg weight tied to my 15# test
fishing rod/reel (only using the bottom eye).

No matter how far I pulled back I got about 2/3s of the way up. Im
estimating that is about the 35 ft level.

Shouldn't a wrister go farther ???? need bigger weight ?

Suggestions.



Sounds like a bigger weight would help.


An interesting question, and a fairly good answer within limits. I used
to do a lot of this sort of thing in the special effects industry (why
yes, you CAN launch a refrigerator with bungee cords).

Here are the physics things to think about.

The amount of energy you can put into the projectile is determined by:
a) How far you pull back
b) How hard you had to pull (i.e. spring constant of the tubes)

To a first order, Q = 1/2 * Peak Force * distance pulled back

That energy gets transferred to the projectile as kinetic energy.

To a first order, Q = 1/2 * Mass * V^2

Then, the energy gets converted back to potential energy (height) and
lost through air drag and pulling the line out. For slow speeds and
small things, the line drag is probably dominant.

By the way, if the pull is about 10 lbs and you pulled back 18", with no
air or line drag, a one ounce projectile will go to about 36 meters (120 ft)

A little bit of line drag makes a huge difference. a one ounce drag,
essentially doubles the weight of your projectile. For the example,
that would change your max height to about 19m (60ft)

If you had a 2 ounce projectile, on the other hand...with no drag, you
get to 19m, but the 1 ounce drag only brings you back to 12.4 m (40ft)


Air drag is a smaller order effect.

force in lbs = area in square feet * v(mi/hr)^2/391.. Your one ounce
weight is moving about 60 mi/hr at launch (9 lb/sf), but is less than a
square inch, so it's about an ounce of drag, but it drops off as the
square, so as the projectile slows, the drag drops off..

A heavier projectile goes slower, so that helps on the airdrag too.

Going back to 1 oz, no line drag, but counting air drag for 1" diameter,
27m or so height (about 2 seconds after launch, as a cross check)
1 oz, 1 oz line drag, air drag, 15.5 m
2 oz, no line, air drag, 1" diam, 18.8 m
2 oz, 1 oz line, air drag, 11.6 m


So this should give you a feel for the relative effects of line drag and
air drag and projectile mass. I did the calculations with a simple
spreadsheet in Excel that numerically integrates the physics equations
with very short time steps.


Tim Shoppa May 16th 08 04:27 PM

Wrist Rocket Height
 
On May 15, 12:46*pm, "R.Scott" wrote:
I'm trying to restring my Dipole up in a Pine (the tree has grown
about 10 ft, and the rope needs replacing) so I got out my trusty
Surgical tubing wrist rocket and a 1oz egg weight tied to my 15# test
fishing rod/reel (only using the bottom eye).

No matter how far I pulled back I got about 2/3s of the way up. *Im
estimating that is about the 35 ft level.

Shouldn't a wrister go farther ???? * need bigger weight ?


How high are you trying to go? With everything in my favor (wind,
etc.) I could get over about a 50 foot branch with a wrist-slingshot
and a 1oz weight. And I think I was standing on a 12 foot ladder to do
it, and this was a "best ever" shot.

Having the line catch on anything - grass, leaves, etc., is a major
downer. If there's no brush on the ground you might get a little more
height by spooling some line out in front of you.

Others here regularly claim being able to get 100+ feet with a
slingshot. I never said out loud that they're exaggerating, but I know
I could just barely do half that. To get to 100feet I went straight to
a tennis ball cannon.

Tim.

Buck[_2_] May 16th 08 05:01 PM

Wrist Rocket Height
 
On Fri, 16 May 2008 08:27:44 -0700 (PDT), Tim Shoppa
wrote:

On May 15, 12:46*pm, "R.Scott" wrote:

SNIP
No matter how far I pulled back I got about 2/3s of the way up. *Im
estimating that is about the 35 ft level.

Shouldn't a wrister go farther ???? * need bigger weight ?


How high are you trying to go? With everything in my favor (wind,
etc.) I could get over about a 50 foot branch with a wrist-slingshot
and a 1oz weight. And I think I was standing on a 12 foot ladder to do
it, and this was a "best ever" shot.

SNIP
Tim.


I couldn't get 50 feet with mine. I figured the line was too old, but
I realized the sling was way overrated. I can do much, much better
with a rod and reel. My favorite tool was a Bear 76er Bow and Arrow
with a short string. It had a 50 lb pull and I could place an arrow
with a screwdriver handle on the tip where ever I wanted it.

The best was a converted shotgun. I took a shotgun shell and took out
the shot, folded the plastic outer shell over the inner shell and
stuck a wood dowel into it. On the far end of the dowel was a
screwdriver with an eye hook onto which I tied a string. It cleared a
100 foot tree with room to spare, but I was afraid of the possibility
of damaging the gun itself so I only tried this once.

Buck
N4PGW

--
73 for now
Buck, N4PGW

www.lumpuckeroo.com

"Small - broadband - efficient: pick any two."

Tim Shoppa May 16th 08 06:39 PM

Wrist Rocket Height
 
On May 16, 12:01*pm, Buck wrote:
The best was a converted shotgun. *I took a shotgun shell and took out
the shot, folded the plastic outer shell over the inner shell and
stuck a wood dowel into it. *On the far end of the dowel was a
screwdriver with an eye hook onto which I tied a string. *It cleared a
100 foot tree with room to spare, but I was afraid of the possibility
of damaging the gun itself so I only tried this once. *


Wow, a shotgun. I wouldn't be so much scared of damaging the gun, but
instead of the gun blowing up in my face!

The tennis ball cannon I use is very very similar to the CSV19 at
http://www.antennalaunchers.com/ and I am very very happy with it.
It's not so much a "point above a crotch in the tree and hope the ball
goes through" but "just shoot the ball and line over the tree".

Tim.

News Features May 16th 08 08:38 PM

Wrist Rocket Height
 
Jim's calculations have confirmed something I've consistently experienced:
my homebrew EZ-Hang has never really lived up to my expectations, or should
I say the expectations that others have set for the performance of the
thing. (For the record, my homebrew device is an exact copy of the famous
EZ-Hang.)

For the past three Field Days, which is when I've used the thing, the
maximum height I've seemed to attain is around 50 feet-- right in the
ballpark for a 1 oz. weight with line and air drags. No matter what I've
tried, that's the limit of height for the parameters of my situation.

Thanks, Jim.

Al W6LX








"Jim Lux" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On May 15, 11:46 am, "R.Scott" wrote:

I'm trying to restring my Dipole up in a Pine (the tree has grown
about 10 ft, and the rope needs replacing) so I got out my trusty
Surgical tubing wrist rocket and a 1oz egg weight tied to my 15# test
fishing rod/reel (only using the bottom eye).

No matter how far I pulled back I got about 2/3s of the way up. Im
estimating that is about the 35 ft level.

Shouldn't a wrister go farther ???? need bigger weight ?

Suggestions.



Sounds like a bigger weight would help.


An interesting question, and a fairly good answer within limits. I used
to do a lot of this sort of thing in the special effects industry (why
yes, you CAN launch a refrigerator with bungee cords).

Here are the physics things to think about.

The amount of energy you can put into the projectile is determined by:
a) How far you pull back
b) How hard you had to pull (i.e. spring constant of the tubes)

To a first order, Q = 1/2 * Peak Force * distance pulled back

That energy gets transferred to the projectile as kinetic energy.

To a first order, Q = 1/2 * Mass * V^2

Then, the energy gets converted back to potential energy (height) and lost
through air drag and pulling the line out. For slow speeds and small
things, the line drag is probably dominant.

By the way, if the pull is about 10 lbs and you pulled back 18", with no
air or line drag, a one ounce projectile will go to about 36 meters (120
ft)

A little bit of line drag makes a huge difference. a one ounce drag,
essentially doubles the weight of your projectile. For the example, that
would change your max height to about 19m (60ft)

If you had a 2 ounce projectile, on the other hand...with no drag, you get
to 19m, but the 1 ounce drag only brings you back to 12.4 m (40ft)


Air drag is a smaller order effect.

force in lbs = area in square feet * v(mi/hr)^2/391.. Your one ounce
weight is moving about 60 mi/hr at launch (9 lb/sf), but is less than a
square inch, so it's about an ounce of drag, but it drops off as the
square, so as the projectile slows, the drag drops off..

A heavier projectile goes slower, so that helps on the airdrag too.

Going back to 1 oz, no line drag, but counting air drag for 1" diameter,
27m or so height (about 2 seconds after launch, as a cross check)
1 oz, 1 oz line drag, air drag, 15.5 m
2 oz, no line, air drag, 1" diam, 18.8 m
2 oz, 1 oz line, air drag, 11.6 m


So this should give you a feel for the relative effects of line drag and
air drag and projectile mass. I did the calculations with a simple
spreadsheet in Excel that numerically integrates the physics equations
with very short time steps.




Lumpy May 16th 08 09:54 PM

Wrist Rocket Height
 
Buck wrote:
...My favorite tool was a Bear 76er Bow and Arrow
with a short string. It had a 50 lb pull and I
could place an arrow with a screwdriver handle
on the tip where ever I wanted it.



The best was a converted shotgun. I took a
shotgun shell and took out the shot, folded
the plastic outer shell over the inner shell
and stuck a wood dowel into it. On the far
end of the dowel was a screwdriver with an
eye hook onto which I tied a string...


I'm having trouble picturing the "screwdriver handle"
in both of those. Could you elaborate, please?


Lumpy

In Your Ears for 40 Years
www.LumpyMusic.com






Jim-NN7K[_2_] May 17th 08 01:38 AM

Wrist Rocket Height
 
Tim- from my High school Physics== the Formula is: F= MA
Force = Mass Times Acceleration. Perhaps a Bow and Arrow
will exceed the (Wrist Rocket) in this department? at 50#
Pull for Acceleration? (Oz per Oz) Jim NN7K



Tim Shoppa wrote:
On May 15, 12:46 pm, "R.Scott" wrote:
I'm trying to restring my Dipole up in a Pine (the tree has grown
about 10 ft, and the rope needs replacing) so I got out my trusty
Surgical tubing wrist rocket and a 1oz egg weight tied to my 15# test
fishing rod/reel (only using the bottom eye).

No matter how far I pulled back I got about 2/3s of the way up. Im
estimating that is about the 35 ft level.

Shouldn't a wrister go farther ???? need bigger weight ?


How high are you trying to go? With everything in my favor (wind,
etc.) I could get over about a 50 foot branch with a wrist-slingshot
and a 1oz weight. And I think I was standing on a 12 foot ladder to do
it, and this was a "best ever" shot.

Having the line catch on anything - grass, leaves, etc., is a major
downer. If there's no brush on the ground you might get a little more
height by spooling some line out in front of you.

Others here regularly claim being able to get 100+ feet with a
slingshot. I never said out loud that they're exaggerating, but I know
I could just barely do half that. To get to 100feet I went straight to
a tennis ball cannon.

Tim.


Buck[_2_] May 17th 08 12:16 PM

Wrist Rocket Height
 
On Fri, 16 May 2008 10:39:11 -0700 (PDT), Tim Shoppa
wrote:

On May 16, 12:01*pm, Buck wrote:
The best was a converted shotgun.

SNIP

Wow, a shotgun. I wouldn't be so much scared of damaging the gun, but
instead of the gun blowing up in my face!

Wouldn't that be damaging the gun?

The dowel I used in the barrel was a bit smaller so it wouldn't get
jammed. I imagine if it were a larger diameter, it would have
traveled further. Completely filling the barrel would make me expect
an uncontrolled explosion...




--
73 for now
Buck, N4PGW

www.lumpuckeroo.com

"Small - broadband - efficient: pick any two."

Buck[_2_] May 17th 08 12:16 PM

Wrist Rocket Height
 

I'm having trouble picturing the "screwdriver handle"
in both of those. Could you elaborate, please?


Lumpy



The arrow had a screwdriver that had the shaft trimmed and tapped for
the screw thread of the arrow head.

The stick had a hole drilled in it and the phillips screwdriver stuck
inside the dowel and glued.


--
73 for now
Buck, N4PGW

www.lumpuckeroo.com

"Small - broadband - efficient: pick any two."

commander john May 18th 08 03:55 PM

Wrist Rocket Height
 
Suggest you try a fishing pole. I used a zebco casting rod I bought
new for my wife. Now my favorite antenna pole.
I put my L up over 50' this way. Use 6 pound test line. Heaver line
weights too much. even 4 is better. Get a large washer. 2" or so.
Tie it on. cast up . If you miss your spot let the washer fall to the
ground. Do not reel back thru the tree. Cut off washer. reel back and
tie on and try again. The washer weights enough so it doesn't get
caught easily in trees. It goes so far be careful you do not damage
others cars or homes. It never broke off. When you get your spot tie
on Thin nylon cord and reel it back. Then a larger rope. The washer
rolls as it falls preventing tangling. Try it in a shorter tree for
practice. fishing sinkers do not work well, they wrap around
branches.
john wzy


vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv w9zy

On May 15, 1:13*pm, "Lumpy" wrote:
R.Scott wrote:
No matter how far I pulled back I got about 2/3s of the way up. *Im
estimating that is about the 35 ft level.



998cc May 19th 08 03:43 AM

Wrist Rocket Height
 
FWIW, I use 8lb monofiliament line and a 3oz fishing weight, and like
others, cast it over the tree with a fishing pole. Wristrockets can't
compare.

Also, in response to another poster, I have never had a fishing weight wrap
around a tree branch as long as it is allowed to fall to the earth. In
other words, allow the line to freely flow out until the weight has dropped
to the ground.

Russ
W6OHM





"R.Scott" wrote in message
...
I'm trying to restring my Dipole up in a Pine (the tree has grown
about 10 ft, and the rope needs replacing) so I got out my trusty
Surgical tubing wrist rocket and a 1oz egg weight tied to my 15# test
fishing rod/reel (only using the bottom eye).

No matter how far I pulled back I got about 2/3s of the way up. Im
estimating that is about the 35 ft level.


Shouldn't a wrister go farther ???? need bigger weight ?

Suggestions.




R.Scott May 19th 08 05:08 AM

Wrist Rocket Height - DILEMMA 2
 
Well my Antenna Im trying to raise and replace the rope is STUCK.

It seems after all this time the tree has trapped the rope up there,
and the antenna is Too high for me to
reach the rope with my Tree Trimmer on a ladder (its 20ft long)

SOOO, how does one get the rope to break or what can i pull up with a
rope if I toss it over the old rope to cut the line

(Ive already pulled as hard as I dare, its STUCK)


Sheesh Simple antenna projects never seem to be simple

Scotty W7PSK

[email protected] May 19th 08 06:06 PM

Wrist Rocket Height
 
On Fri, 16 May 2008 10:39:11 -0700 (PDT), Tim Shoppa
wrote:

snip...........

The tennis ball cannon I use is very very similar to the CSV19 at
http://www.antennalaunchers.com/ and I am very very happy with it.
It's not so much a "point above a crotch in the tree and hope the ball
goes through" but "just shoot the ball and line over the tree".

Tim.


I built the QE-19 from the same site Tim mentioned. The "air valve"
for it is off-the-shelf so it's a plug-n-play project. It beats every
fishing rod, bow & arrow, sling shot..... anything I've ever tried
before. Beats them hands down. It'll easily clear a 100 foot height
and is accurate after you shoot it a couple times. It's a little
pricey but that could be spread out if it were to become a club
project.

Kingfish

Tim Shoppa May 19th 08 06:25 PM

Wrist Rocket Height
 
On May 19, 1:06*pm, wrote:
On Fri, 16 May 2008 10:39:11 -0700 (PDT), TimShoppa

wrote:

snip...........



The tennis ball cannon I use is very very similar to the CSV19 at
http://www.antennalaunchers.com/and I am very very happy with it.
It's not so much a "point above a crotch in the tree and hope the ball
goes through" but "just shoot the ball and line over the tree".


Tim.


I built the QE-19 from the same site Tim mentioned. *The "air valve"
for it is off-the-shelf so it's a plug-n-play project. *It beats every
fishing rod, bow & arrow, sling shot..... anything I've ever tried
before. *Beats them hands down. *It'll easily clear a 100 foot height
and is accurate after you shoot it a couple times. *It's a little
pricey but that could be spread out if it were to become a club
project.


My impression is that the CSV19, with its modified sprinkler valve,
has a higher muzzle velocity than the QE-19. But overall, I agree
100%, that for me the tennis ball launcher was far and away the best
choice.

I have some friends who are very good with crossbows and they tell me
that I'm wrong, that the crossbow will do the job more reliably and
accurately than my tennis ball cannon, but I don't have a crossbow and
don't really intend to learn how to use one. I don't really want to
shoot arrows into my neighbor's property either. The tennis ball
cannon just made the job so easy, and literally the only gotcha is
that you'll not only send the ball over the target tree, but probably
the trees behind it if you aren't careful. One trick I learned very
quickly: When you see the ball go over the target tree, grab the
fishing line and stop it, then let it go so the ball can just fall
from there. My trees are at the very edges/corners of my property, and
using this trick I was able to ensure that the support lines are also
within the property.

Tim N3QE

Tim Shoppa May 19th 08 07:52 PM

Wrist Rocket Height - DILEMMA 2
 
On May 19, 12:08*am, "R.Scott" wrote:
Well my Antenna Im trying to raise and replace the rope is STUCK.

It seems after all this time the tree has trapped the rope up there,
and the antenna is Too high for me to
reach the rope with my Tree Trimmer on a ladder (its 20ft long)

SOOO, how does one get the rope to break or what can i pull up with a
rope if I toss it over the old rope to cut the line

*(Ive already pulled as hard as I dare, its STUCK)


Climb up a ladder, cut it as high as you can.

The tree-trimmer-on-a-pole doohinkeys don't work well at all for
cutting ropes.

Next time use black ropes, they stand out a lot less than those
fluorescent orange ones!

Tim.

Roy Lewallen May 19th 08 10:30 PM

Wrist Rocket Height
 
R.Scott wrote:
I'm trying to restring my Dipole up in a Pine (the tree has grown
about 10 ft, and the rope needs replacing) so I got out my trusty
Surgical tubing wrist rocket and a 1oz egg weight tied to my 15# test
fishing rod/reel (only using the bottom eye).

No matter how far I pulled back I got about 2/3s of the way up. Im
estimating that is about the 35 ft level.


Shouldn't a wrister go farther ???? need bigger weight ?

Suggestions.


I've shot over 100 feet high with a Wrist Rocket using a 2 oz weight and
about 6 pound test fishing line.

Make sure your fishing reel is nearly full, to minimize the resistance
as the line comes off.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

[email protected] May 20th 08 01:35 AM

Wrist Rocket Height
 
On Mon, 19 May 2008 10:25:04 -0700 (PDT), Tim Shoppa
wrote:

On May 19, 1:06*pm, wrote:
On Fri, 16 May 2008 10:39:11 -0700 (PDT), TimShoppa

wrote:

snip...........



The tennis ball cannon I use is very very similar to the CSV19 at
http://www.antennalaunchers.com/and I am very very happy with it.
It's not so much a "point above a crotch in the tree and hope the ball
goes through" but "just shoot the ball and line over the tree".


Tim.


I built the QE-19 from the same site Tim mentioned. *The "air valve"
for it is off-the-shelf so it's a plug-n-play project. *It beats every
fishing rod, bow & arrow, sling shot..... anything I've ever tried
before. *Beats them hands down. *It'll easily clear a 100 foot height
and is accurate after you shoot it a couple times. *It's a little
pricey but that could be spread out if it were to become a club
project.


My impression is that the CSV19, with its modified sprinkler valve,
has a higher muzzle velocity than the QE-19. But overall, I agree
100%, that for me the tennis ball launcher was far and away the best
choice.

I have some friends who are very good with crossbows and they tell me
that I'm wrong, that the crossbow will do the job more reliably and
accurately than my tennis ball cannon, but I don't have a crossbow and
don't really intend to learn how to use one. I don't really want to
shoot arrows into my neighbor's property either. The tennis ball
cannon just made the job so easy, and literally the only gotcha is
that you'll not only send the ball over the target tree, but probably
the trees behind it if you aren't careful. One trick I learned very
quickly: When you see the ball go over the target tree, grab the
fishing line and stop it, then let it go so the ball can just fall
from there. My trees are at the very edges/corners of my property, and
using this trick I was able to ensure that the support lines are also
within the property.

Tim N3QE



A lead weight from a slingshot or an arrow from a bow will clear most
anything if the string is set up correctly. But both are fairly
dangerous coming down if the string breaks. That's the good thing
about the tennis ball cannons, I think they're safer.

I chose the QE-19 because the components were off-the-shelf and
required no modification.

Kingfish

R. Scott May 20th 08 01:37 AM

Wrist Rocket Height - DILEMMA 2
 
Tim Shoppa wrote:
On May 19, 12:08 am, "R.Scott" wrote:
Well my Antenna Im trying to raise and replace the rope is STUCK.

It seems after all this time the tree has trapped the rope up there,
and the antenna is Too high for me to
reach the rope with my Tree Trimmer on a ladder (its 20ft long)

SOOO, how does one get the rope to break or what can i pull up with a
rope if I toss it over the old rope to cut the line

(Ive already pulled as hard as I dare, its STUCK)


Climb up a ladder, cut it as high as you can.

The tree-trimmer-on-a-pole doohinkeys don't work well at all for
cutting ropes.


I cant get to the rope, I can reach about 1/3 of my antenna .. dont want
to leave that up there :)

I figure out something.


[email protected] May 21st 08 03:51 PM

Wrist Rocket Height - DILEMMA 2
 
How do you get the rope down? How about attaching to the bumper of
your car and slowly driving away from the tree? Pad the 'edges' of
the bumper, they like to 'eat' rope. Hope the rope is weaker than the
tree.
Was on the receiving end of a piece of 30-40 foot nylon cord I was
trying to get off of a lamp post. You might be surprised at what that
stuff will feel like when it snaps and hits you. Took a few days, but
the welts finally disappeared. The memory will last forever!
- 'Doc

PS - Having a hardware store hanging from a tree is a sure sign of a
dedicated ham! Sort of a huge wind-chime, right?

David Harmon May 21st 08 07:47 PM

Wrist Rocket Height - DILEMMA 2
 
On Wed, 21 May 2008 07:51:33 -0700 (PDT) in
rec.radio.amateur.antenna, wrote,
How do you get the rope down? How about attaching to the bumper of
your car and slowly driving away from the tree? Pad the 'edges' of
the bumper, they like to 'eat' rope. Hope the rope is weaker than the
tree.


Be sure to get it on video when you pull the tree down onto your car!

Jim Lux May 21st 08 09:05 PM

Wrist Rocket Height
 
Jim-NN7K wrote:
Tim- from my High school Physics== the Formula is: F= MA
Force = Mass Times Acceleration. Perhaps a Bow and Arrow
will exceed the (Wrist Rocket) in this department? at 50#
Pull for Acceleration? (Oz per Oz) Jim NN7K


more relevant is the 2ad=v^2 equation... height goes as the square of
the launch velocity, neglecting air drag and line drag.

but, where the bow and arrow really excel is in the overall larger mass
of the projectile and higher launch energy (mostly the latter. the arrow
is a couple or three ounces.. same as the wrist rocket.. but the bow
will easily have a 50 lb draw and longer distance.

See, e.g., http://www.stortford-archers.org.uk/medieval.htm for some
discussion of bow and arrow physics




Tim Shoppa wrote:

On May 15,


Jim Lux May 21st 08 09:08 PM

Wrist Rocket Height
 
Tim Shoppa wrote:
On May 19, 1:06 pm, wrote:

On Fri, 16 May 2008 10:39:11 -0700 (PDT), TimShoppa

wrote:

snip...........




The tennis ball cannon I use is very very similar to the CSV19 at
http://www.antennalaunchers.com/and I am very very happy with it.
It's not so much a "point above a crotch in the tree and hope the ball
goes through" but "just shoot the ball and line over the tree".


Tim.


I built the QE-19 from the same site Tim mentioned. The "air valve"
for it is off-the-shelf so it's a plug-n-play project. It beats every
fishing rod, bow & arrow, sling shot..... anything I've ever tried
before. Beats them hands down. It'll easily clear a 100 foot height
and is accurate after you shoot it a couple times. It's a little
pricey but that could be spread out if it were to become a club
project.



My impression is that the CSV19, with its modified sprinkler valve,
has a higher muzzle velocity than the QE-19. But overall, I agree
100%, that for me the tennis ball launcher was far and away the best
choice.

I have some friends who are very good with crossbows and they tell me
that I'm wrong, that the crossbow will do the job more reliably and
accurately than my tennis ball cannon, but I don't have a crossbow and
don't really intend to learn how to use one. I don't really want to
shoot arrows into my neighbor's property either.


A very important point. In many areas, firing a crossbow (which is
generally perceived as a lethal weapon) at anything other than a
designated target would set you up for a lot of hassles with the local
constabulary, or worse. The tennis ball launcher (avoid the "cannon"
term..) looks less "weapon-y"

Lumpy May 22nd 08 12:00 AM

Wrist Rocket Height
 
Jim Lux wrote:
... The tennis ball launcher (avoid the "cannon"
term..) looks less "weapon-y"


Not that shoulder fired one that everyone's
been looking at..:-)
http://www.antennalaunchers.com/antlaunching.html

It looks like an RPG. Wander around aiming that
thing at the top of your trees while the
gendarmerie rides past and I'll bet you'll
be asked to "DO IT NOW".


Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke

www.n0eq.com





SWLer[_4_] May 22nd 08 12:41 AM

Wrist Rocket Height
 
Hi Al W6LX, et. al. --

I bought a 'real' EZ HANG from Dennis (KG4ETM) at Dayton,
(http://ezhang.com) and after taking a few trial shots
I had *no* problem shooting the one ounce weight over a
135+ foot Tulip Poplar tree in my back yard in northern
Virginia.

The tree was so tall that I used -all- 300 feet of the
monofilament line and the weight ended up about three feet
off the ground.

My point is that if you use an "EZ Hang" (or a counterfeit)
properly, that thing really works!

Wish you were closer so I could show you. It's a great
gadget!

---------------

News Features wrote:
Jim's calculations have confirmed something I've consistently experienced:
my homebrew EZ-Hang has never really lived up to my expectations, or should
I say the expectations that others have set for the performance of the
thing. (For the record, my homebrew device is an exact copy of the famous
EZ-Hang.)

For the past three Field Days, which is when I've used the thing, the
maximum height I've seemed to attain is around 50 feet-- right in the
ballpark for a 1 oz. weight with line and air drags. No matter what I've
tried, that's the limit of height for the parameters of my situation.

Thanks, Jim.

Al W6LX


Jim Lux May 22nd 08 01:13 AM

Wrist Rocket Height
 
SWLer wrote:
Hi Al W6LX, et. al. --

I bought a 'real' EZ HANG from Dennis (KG4ETM) at Dayton,
(http://ezhang.com) and after taking a few trial shots
I had *no* problem shooting the one ounce weight over a
135+ foot Tulip Poplar tree in my back yard in northern
Virginia.

The tree was so tall that I used -all- 300 feet of the
monofilament line and the weight ended up about three feet
off the ground.


How far back do you pull, and how hard?

SWLer[_4_] May 24th 08 12:21 AM

Wrist Rocket Height
 


Jim Lux wrote:
SWLer wrote:
Hi Al W6LX, et. al. --

I bought a 'real' EZ HANG from Dennis (KG4ETM) at Dayton,
(http://ezhang.com) and after taking a few trial shots
I had *no* problem shooting the one ounce weight over a
135+ foot Tulip Poplar tree in my back yard in northern
Virginia.

The tree was so tall that I used -all- 300 feet of the
monofilament line and the weight ended up about three feet
off the ground.


How far back do you pull, and how hard?


With elbow locked and arm fully extended, I pulled the
rubbers back to my ear. *!Remember to always wear eye
protection!*

[email protected] May 24th 08 01:04 AM

Wrist Rocket Height
 
On May 23, 4:21 pm, SWLer wrote:
Jim Lux wrote:
SWLer wrote:
Hi Al W6LX, et. al. --


I bought a 'real' EZ HANG from Dennis (KG4ETM) at Dayton,
(http://ezhang.com) and after taking a few trial shots
I had *no* problem shooting the one ounce weight over a
135+ foot Tulip Poplar tree in my back yard in northern
Virginia.


The tree was so tall that I used -all- 300 feet of the
monofilament line and the weight ended up about three feet
off the ground.


How far back do you pull, and how hard?


With elbow locked and arm fully extended, I pulled the
rubbers back to my ear. *!Remember to always wear eye
protection!*


So.. about 30 inches (based on the wrist rocket I have).. care to
guestimate how hard you're pulling? (maybe I can make some
measurements on my old wrist rocket..)


SWLer[_4_] May 24th 08 03:31 AM

Wrist Rocket Height
 


wrote:
On May 23, 4:21 pm, SWLer wrote:
Jim Lux wrote:
SWLer wrote:
Hi Al W6LX, et. al. --
I bought a 'real' EZ HANG from Dennis (KG4ETM) at Dayton,
(http://ezhang.com) and after taking a few trial shots
I had *no* problem shooting the one ounce weight over a
135+ foot Tulip Poplar tree in my back yard in northern
Virginia.
The tree was so tall that I used -all- 300 feet of the
monofilament line and the weight ended up about three feet
off the ground.
How far back do you pull, and how hard?

With elbow locked and arm fully extended, I pulled the
rubbers back to my ear. *!Remember to always wear eye
protection!*


So.. about 30 inches (based on the wrist rocket I have).. care to
guestimate how hard you're pulling? (maybe I can make some
measurements on my old wrist rocket..)


Again, *Remember I used safety glasses* in case a rubber
snapped. You need to do that.

I didn't measure anything. But, 30 inches sounds about right.
All I did was pull *really* hard on the rubbers and (using a
one-ounce weight as I described) the darned thing went up
like a rocket, up and over the tree.

It amazed me.

So, don't be afraid to pull the rubber bands 30+ inches.
Unless they're old, they won't snap.

73, Fred



Tim Shoppa May 25th 08 01:24 AM

Wrist Rocket Height
 
Lumpy wrote:
Jim Lux wrote:
... The tennis ball launcher (avoid the "cannon"
term..) looks less "weapon-y"


Not that shoulder fired one that everyone's
been looking at..:-)
http://www.antennalaunchers.com/antlaunching.html

It looks like an RPG. Wander around aiming that
thing at the top of your trees while the
gendarmerie rides past and I'll bet you'll
be asked to "DO IT NOW".


Just for added effect, when I made my tennis ball launcher I spray-
painted it yellow and then added black stencils with BIOHAZARD and
FALLOUT SHELTER symbology on. And then I stenciled BUTTERCUP on for
the opposite impression :-).

I'm sure that some people are comfortable with lead weights flying
through the air, or with crossbows. Me, I just happen (perhaps through
lack of ability with the other two - I tried, but failed with
slingshot and crossbow, but the tennis ball cannon worked the first
time!) to be pefectly comfortable with the tennis ball cannon. And it
worked, man it worked. I am so so so happy with the resulting antenna,
100 feet up between two trees.

Tim N3QE

R.Scott June 3rd 08 04:07 PM

Wrist Rocket Height - EPILOGUE
 
Well I finally got the rope cut, I Duct Taped my Tree trimmer
extended to 2 10 foot Rat Shack Mast pieces I had, that and getting
on the ladder a bit I was able to get up into the rope enough to cut
it.

Now the Good News is

I changed Reels in the wrist rocket, I was using Open Faced but
noticed all the ones on the net had a Zebco. So I grabbed a spare
zebco, walked out and zinngg right to the top of the tree, and then
it slid down slick as can be. Sent up the messenger string (small
nylon) and pulled the main cable back over and up went the antenna.
All is well now, I got frustrated cause the open faced would let it
spool out proper it was either short or hung up. Zebco worked peach.


Thanks for all the help folks

Scotty W7PSK.

john Wiener June 6th 08 10:07 PM

Wrist Rocket Height
 
Tim Shoppa wrote:
On May 15, 12:46 pm, "R.Scott" wrote:
I'm trying to restring my Dipole up in a Pine (the tree has grown
about 10 ft, and the rope needs replacing) so I got out my trusty
Surgical tubing wrist rocket and a 1oz egg weight tied to my 15# test
fishing rod/reel (only using the bottom eye).

No matter how far I pulled back I got about 2/3s of the way up. Im
estimating that is about the 35 ft level.

Shouldn't a wrister go farther ???? need bigger weight ?


How high are you trying to go? With everything in my favor (wind,
etc.) I could get over about a 50 foot branch with a wrist-slingshot
and a 1oz weight. And I think I was standing on a 12 foot ladder to do
it, and this was a "best ever" shot.

Having the line catch on anything - grass, leaves, etc., is a major
downer. If there's no brush on the ground you might get a little more
height by spooling some line out in front of you.

Others here regularly claim being able to get 100+ feet with a
slingshot. I never said out loud that they're exaggerating, but I know
I could just barely do half that. To get to 100feet I went straight to
a tennis ball cannon.

Tim.

A little late to this thread so may be redundant.

I have used a compound bow and arrow attached to a fishing reel and the
problem I had was firing TOO high and overshooting the target.

you could give it a try.


John
AB8O

[email protected] July 6th 08 09:03 AM

Wrist Rocket Height
 
On Fri, 06 Jun 2008 17:07:34 -0400, john Wiener
wrote:

Tim Shoppa wrote:
On May 15, 12:46 pm, "R.Scott" wrote:
I'm trying to restring my Dipole up in a Pine (the tree has grown
about 10 ft, and the rope needs replacing) so I got out my trusty
Surgical tubing wrist rocket and a 1oz egg weight tied to my 15# test
fishing rod/reel (only using the bottom eye).

No matter how far I pulled back I got about 2/3s of the way up. Im
estimating that is about the 35 ft level.

Shouldn't a wrister go farther ???? need bigger weight ?


How high are you trying to go? With everything in my favor (wind,
etc.) I could get over about a 50 foot branch with a wrist-slingshot
and a 1oz weight. And I think I was standing on a 12 foot ladder to do
it, and this was a "best ever" shot.

Having the line catch on anything - grass, leaves, etc., is a major
downer. If there's no brush on the ground you might get a little more
height by spooling some line out in front of you.

Others here regularly claim being able to get 100+ feet with a
slingshot. I never said out loud that they're exaggerating, but I know
I could just barely do half that. To get to 100feet I went straight to
a tennis ball cannon.


The guys at FD were putting the weight over the top of the athletic
field lights and those are about a 100. I can't but several of them
could. One it took about 5 tries. :-))

Roger (K8RI) ARRL Life Member
N833R (World's oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com


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