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antenna construction
I have the following represents my roof and the tree in my backyard.
The length of the roof is 90ft, it is 15ft from the center line to each edge, (roughly 30ft), height of roof is approx 22ft at the peak and 10ft at the gutter edge.. The tree is approximately 35ft high. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx x O x x x x ----------------------------------------------------x x x xxxxxxxxxx x O x x x xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx x O x x x xxxxxxxxxx TREE My question is: do you think it would be better to run a configuration as say a Windom from the tree to the points on the roof (the points can be moved) or just a simple inverted "V" and the angle of the "V" in any case is going to be very narrow. I would be feeding either one via some Rg8x approximately 65ft. I would like to be able to use the ant from 160m - 6m if possible, I will be feeding it via a tuner, and the wire is going to be #26 enameled as it can't be seen. Comments please. 73's Howard W3CQH |
antenna construction
Sorry for the repost - I was trying to get the visual dimensions correct!
The following represents my roof and the tree in my backyard. The length of the roof is 90ft, it is 15ft from the center line to each edge, (roughly 30ft), height of roof is approx 22ft at the peak and 10ft at the gutter edge.. The tree is approximately 35ft high. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx x O x x x x ---------------------------------------------------x x x xxxxxxxxxx x O x x x xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx x O x x x xxxxxxxxxx TREE My question is: do you think it would be better to run a configuration as say a Windom from the tree to the points on the roof (the points can be moved) or just a simple inverted "V" and the angle of the "V" in any case is going to be very narrow. I would be feeding either one via some Rg8x approximately 65ft. I would like to be able to use the ant from 160m - 6m if possible, I will be feeding it via a tuner, and the wire is going to be #26 enameled as it can't be seen. Comments please. 73's Howard W3CQH |
antenna construction
Sorry for the repost - I was trying to get the visual dimensions correct! The following represents my roof and the tree in my backyard. The length of the roof is 90ft, it is 15ft from the center line to each edge, (roughly 30ft), height of roof is approx 22ft at the peak and 10ft at the gutter edge.. The tree is approximately 35ft high. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx x O x x x x ---------------------------------------------------x x x xxxxx x O x x O x xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxx TREE My question is: do you think it would be better to run a configuration as say a Windom from the tree to the points on the roof (the points can be moved) or just a simple inverted "V" and the angle of the "V" in any case is going to be very narrow. I would be feeding either one via some Rg8x approximately 65ft. I would like to be able to use the ant from 160m - 6m if possible, I will be feeding it via a tuner, and the wire is going to be #26 enameled as it can't be seen. Comments please. 73's Howard W3CQH |
antenna construction
"W3CQH" wrote in message . .. Sorry for the repost - I was trying to get the visual dimensions correct! The following represents my roof and the tree in my backyard. The length of the roof is 90ft, it is 15ft from the center line to each edge, (roughly 30ft), height of roof is approx 22ft at the peak and 10ft at the gutter edge.. The tree is approximately 35ft high. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx x O x x x x -------------------------------------------x x x xxxxx x O x x O x xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxx TREE My question is: do you think it would be better to run a configuration as say a Windom from the tree to the points on the roof (the points can be moved) or just a simple inverted "V" and the angle of the "V" in any case is going to be very narrow. I would be feeding either one via some Rg8x approximately 65ft. I would like to be able to use the ant from 160m - 6m if possible, I will be feeding it via a tuner, and the wire is going to be #26 enameled as it can't be seen. Comments please. 73's Howard W3CQH |
antenna construction
W3CQH wrote:
"W3CQH" wrote in message . .. Sorry for the repost - I was trying to get the visual dimensions correct! The following represents my roof and the tree in my backyard. The length of the roof is 90ft, it is 15ft from the center line to each edge, (roughly 30ft), height of roof is approx 22ft at the peak and 10ft at the gutter edge.. The tree is approximately 35ft high. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx x O x x x x -------------------------------------------x x x xxxxx x O x x O x xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxx TREE My question is: do you think it would be better to run a configuration as say a Windom from the tree to the points on the roof (the points can be moved) or just a simple inverted "V" and the angle of the "V" in any case is going to be very narrow. I would be feeding either one via some Rg8x approximately 65ft. I would like to be able to use the ant from 160m - 6m if possible, I will be feeding it via a tuner, and the wire is going to be #26 enameled as it can't be seen. Comments please. Guess I'll reply to this one! ;^) How much total length will you have? A Windom for 160 needs 260 feet. I used a windom for a while because it was convenient, the short leg dropped the coax directly down to my shack window. The antenna performed okay. Depending on your lot size, you might not be able to run a full 160 meter version. would 80 meters be an okay bottom limit? Even if you had to let the ends drop a bit, though tuning (short vs long leg) will be a little different. Inverted v might also be a little difficult. You might want to go for a plain dipole. I'm pretty dense today - getting over a nasty head cold, so I'm going to ask a few questions. You just have the one tree? If so, where are you planning to hang the other end of the dipole. Certainly an inverted V is going to need something in the middle. With the tree at 35 feet, what is the maximum height you can hang a wire at? It doesn't sound like a real optimum site, but don't worry, we can get you something that will work okay. - 73 de Mike N3LI - |
antenna construction
Just some thoughts...
That #26 wire is going to be a problem no matter what type antenna you end up with. For the longer antennas, HF, etc, it's strength is going to be sort of limiting. It is sort of difficult to see, but it's far from being invisible. So, if you are in one of 'those' neighborhoods that don't like 'visible' antennas there is another choice instead of an invisible antenna. That's using something that is very visible, but not normally associated with antennas. The first thing that comes to mind is a flag pole. Certainly 'do-able', and certainly not going to be 'simple' if it covers more than one 'chunk' of HF. The 'simple' way of 'curing' that sort of thingy is to throw money at it, to some ridiculous point. (Wonder how 'they'ed feel about a 'commemorative' Atlas missile monument in your yard?) I think you might do some thinking about what's the longest, sort of straight, 'run' you can manage using the roof ridge and tree. A few 'bends' in that 'straight' run are allowable, sort of. And then consider various ways of 'loading' that run. One option might be a 'short' but 'long' inverted 'L', a "lazy-L"? Not exactly the best, has it's own set of 'problems', but if it works, who cares...much. Having 'been there, done that' at at one time or another, I really wish you luck. - 'Doc |
antenna construction
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antenna construction
"Cecil Moore" wrote in message ... wrote: The first thing that comes to mind is a flag pole. A 22' flagpole (with buried radials) can be base-fed with an SG-230 (for instance) to achieve reasonable performance on 40m-10m. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com I used one of those for several years in a "restricted" neighborhood. Performance was not bad. I used a manually switched coil/capacitor combination mounted at the base in a wooden box obtained from the local beekeeper supply house. While the box was a little large, it was inexpensive, and held up well in weather with a new paint job every 2-3 years. |
antenna construction
wrote in message ... Just some thoughts... That #26 wire is going to be a problem no matter what type antenna you end up with. For the longer antennas, HF, etc, it's strength is going to be sort of limiting. It is sort of difficult to see, but it's far from being invisible. So, if you are in one of 'those' neighborhoods that don't like 'visible' antennas there is another choice instead of an invisible antenna. That's using something that is very visible, but not normally associated with antennas. The first thing that comes to mind is a flag pole. Certainly 'do-able', and certainly not going to be 'simple' if it covers more than one 'chunk' of HF. The 'simple' way of 'curing' that sort of thingy is to throw money at it, to some ridiculous point. (Wonder how 'they'd feel about a 'commemorative' Atlas missile monument in your yard?) I think you might do some thinking about what's the longest, sort of straight, 'run' you can manage using the roof ridge and tree. A few 'bends' in that 'straight' run are allowable, sort of. And then consider various ways of 'loading' that run. One option might be a 'short' but 'long' inverted 'L', a "lazy-L"? Not exactly the best, has it's own set of 'problems', but if it works, who cares...much. Having 'been there, done that' at one time or another, I really wish you luck. - 'Doc Thanks for your thoughts - I am NOT allowed either of the 2 items that you suggested (flag pole or missile - although I would like to have a Gatling Gun mounted and take pot shots at the senior citizens that use my street as a tune up for drag racing). 1] In my current configuration I have a #13ga jacketed wire coming out of a Icom A4 auto- tuner (which is in the attic next to the vent window). From the tuner, it goes up about 3 feet to the roof peak, makes a 90 degree turn and then traverses down the edge (15ft) to make a 90 degree turn down to the end of the roof (90ft) running along each of the gutters sides (but actual on the roof). Then it makes another 90 degree turn and goes up and over the peak to the other side of the roof, about (30ft) and makes another 90 degree turn and comes back (90ft) turns back up to the peak (15ft) and back down to the ground side of the tuner. I am hearing a lot of sigs, but I am having probs being heard! 100w! 2] Before I had this configuration, it was basically the same, except the auto-tuner wasn't in line, instead I was using a manual tuner. I had the same configuration on the roof, and an additional 2 runs (LOOPS) of the same size wire inside of the attic, total length of approximately 540ft. It was working (80-10), but I couldn't get it to tune to 160m. On the VHF/UHF frequencies, 6m thru 70cm it was working as a multi-wavelength RHOMBIC. I was able to work a bunch more stations, but still I thought I wanted more. But the problem is that the outside portion - the signals being transmitted - that the roof was probably absorbing most of them. 3] Whether I use a manual or auto tuner, I am trying to get the best configuration other laying the wire on the roof or stringing it along the rafters in the attic. The distance is approximately 20 feet from the tree to the house. I can bury a piece of coax from the house to the tree, and then run it up the tree to a center connection for a dipole, but the arms of the dipole are going to have to be bent into a "V" and terminate at some point along the longest sides of the roof just above the gutters. 4] As you suggested, I could run a dipole (using more of the #13ga wire, the ends facing N/S) along the ridge line and center or off-center feed it with coax, but then again, it will be laying on the roof. (90ft straight ridge line). 73's |
antenna construction
"Cecil Moore" wrote in message ... wrote: The first thing that comes to mind is a flag pole. A 22' flagpole (with buried radials) can be base-fed with an SG-230 (for instance) to achieve reasonable performance on 40m-10m. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Thanks Cecil, but I can't have any flag poles. 73's |
antenna construction
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antenna construction
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antenna construction
W3CQH wrote:
"Cecil Moore" wrote in message ... wrote: The first thing that comes to mind is a flag pole. A 22' flagpole (with buried radials) can be base-fed with an SG-230 (for instance) to achieve reasonable performance on 40m-10m. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Thanks Cecil, but I can't have any flag poles. 73's Good lord, what kind of neighborhood won't allow a flagpole? Unpatriotic creeps? Sounds like you need to get PRB-1 in your corner. Essentially, they cannot stop you from erecting *something*, you have the right to an antenna. You might not get something really great, but they will need to accomodate to some extent. A flagpole antenna is one of those compromises. - 73 de Mike N3LI - |
antenna construction
W3CQH wrote:
Thanks Cecil, but I can't have any flag poles. 73's Put your satellite TV antenna on a 22 foot pole? :-) -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com |
antenna construction
"W3CQH" wrote Thanks for your thoughts - I am NOT allowed either of the 2 items that you suggested (flag pole or missile - although I would like to have a Gatling Gun mounted and take pot shots at the senior citizens that use my street as a tune up for drag racing). ---------- Record their license plate numbers and file an official complaint with the police. There is no excuse for behavior like that, and I'm a senior citizen. Ed, NM2K |
antenna construction
W3CQH wrote:
I am hearing a lot of sigs, but I am having probs being heard! 100w! I routinely work anywhere CONUS from Phoenix on 5w into either a screwdriver vertical, a hamstick vertical or a pair of hamsticks horizontal dipole. With those same antennas and 100w I can work Australia and Latin America. Mount a hamstick or screwdriver on your car and run a length of RG58 inside to your transciever. I think you describe having 90' of roofline. That's enough for a good sized wire dipole. Bird feeders, security cameras and windsocks for some reason seem to work best at 16.6' off the ground. Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke -- Camouflage Operations www.n0eq.com |
antenna construction
Michael Coslo wrote:
Good lord, what kind of neighborhood won't allow a flagpole? Unpatriotic creeps? Sounds like you need to get PRB-1 in your corner. Here's what one ham did about his neighborhood antenna restrictions. :-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC_EeWSKJII -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com |
antenna construction
"Cecil Moore" wrote in message ... W3CQH wrote: Thanks Cecil, but I can't have any flag poles. 73's Put your satellite TV antenna on a 22 foot pole? :-) -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com Thanks again, but satellite TV antenna must be mounted to the roof, and if I did want to install a TV antenna, the highest point is only 12 feet above the roof line. - 73 |
antenna construction
"Lumpy" wrote in message ... W3CQH wrote: I am hearing a lot of sigs, but I am having probs being heard! 100w! I routinely work anywhere CONUS from Phoenix on 5w into either a screwdriver vertical, a hamstick vertical or a pair of hamsticks horizontal dipole. With those same antennas and 100w I can work Australia and Latin America. Mount a hamstick or screwdriver on your car and run a length of RG58 inside to your transciever. I think you describe having 90' of roofline. That's enough for a good sized wire dipole. Bird feeders, security cameras and windsocks for some reason seem to work best at 16.6' off the ground. Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke -- Camouflage Operations www.n0eq.com Thanks Lumpy - I have a screwdriver mounted on my truck, but the HOA says that I can't run a cable to it.. In the cover of darkness I did run a cable - and someone complained! |
antenna construction
W3CQH wrote:
...I have a screwdriver mounted on my truck, but the HOA says that I can't run a cable to it... Man, you must live in a tiny place if people can spot a piece of RG58 lying on the ground at night. Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke www.n0eq.com |
antenna construction
In article ,
Michael Coslo wrote: Thanks Cecil, but I can't have any flag poles. 73's Good lord, what kind of neighborhood won't allow a flagpole? Unpatriotic creeps? A "planned" community, with a strict set of CC&Rs, enforced by a homeowner's association whose board has an extremely anal attitude towards any variation at all in the community's planned appearance scheme? Sounds like you need to get PRB-1 in your corner. Essentially, they cannot stop you from erecting *something*, you have the right to an antenna. PRB-1 applies only to governmental restrictions (e.g. city and county zoning rules). Unfortunately, it does not apply to CC&Rs (codes, covenants, and restrictions) which are written into the title of a home or other piece of property. Legally, these are part of the contract of sale of the property - they're a private agreement between seller and buyer, and are not implemented or enforced by the local government. Hams have asked the FCC to rule that PRB-1 overrides such CC&Rs. The FCC has declined to do so, on the grounds that it doesn't have the legal authority - Congress *could* have written/extended PRB-1 to override such CC&Rs, but chose not to do so. See http://www.eham.net/articles/16368 for one story on this aspect of the problem. Unfortunately for hams, antenna-restrictive CC&Rs are quite common in newer communities and are becoming even more so. I've heard that in some areas, they're almost (but not quite) a legal fact-of-life, in that lenders won't provide financing for the construction of the community in the first place unless the builder includes a fairly stiff set of CC&Rs in the plans (to "preserve the aesthetics and value of the community" I suppose). I believe I read an article a few months ago about legislation which specifically overrides CC&Rs to the extent of allowing the flying of a United States flag, but I can't recall the details... and I don't think it would necessarily have allowed a long vertical flagpole. There *is* one possible "out" with regard to antennas and CC&Rs, although it does not involve PRB-1. Instead, it uses the OTARD (Over-The-Air Reception Devices) rule (47 C.F.R. Section 1.4000), which specifically allows the installation of television, direct- broadcast-satellite, and "fixed wireless" antennas. This rule *does* override CC&R restrictions, as well as local zoning restrictions. It's not unlimited - mast height is limited to 12 feet, dish size is limited to 1 metre, the override applies only to antennas installed in an "exclusive use" part of the property (i.e. not in shared areas), and there can be *some* restrictions on placement in limited cases. In general, though, you're allowed to put up a TV antenna, and cannot be hit with restrictions which materially increase your costs in doing so or make the job significantly more difficult. The rule doesn't apply to ham antennas. However, there's at least one company (Force 12, I believe), which makes an antenna that can serve a dual purpose - it's a shortened, center-fed-and-loaded (I think) HF vertical, and also can serve as a TV reception antenna. Another possible option would be to put up an *insulated* 12-foot mast pipe with a standard TV log-periodic antenna at the top, run a set of radials along the roof, and feed it at the base with an antenna tuner. You might add some switchable base-loading coils, or even figure out some way to relay-jumper the log-periodic at the top to the mast so that it acts as a capacity hat. As long as you *do* use the antenna for TV reception, I believe it'd be covered by the OTARD preemption, even if you also use it occasionally for ham-band use. [Just remember to disconnect the TV feed system before keying up!!!] See http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html for details. -- Dave Platt AE6EO Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! |
antenna construction
Dave Platt wrote:
In article , Michael Coslo wrote: Thanks Cecil, but I can't have any flag poles. 73's Good lord, what kind of neighborhood won't allow a flagpole? Unpatriotic creeps? A "planned" community, with a strict set of CC&Rs, enforced by a homeowner's association whose board has an extremely anal attitude towards any variation at all in the community's planned appearance scheme? Time to find a different place to live in. I live in a modern development in which the only restrictions are that you keep the house presentable, and the lawn mowed. There are some restrictions on tower height and fall radius, but I could put one up. Homeowners association = evil, bad, ptui! Right there is the first clue that people shouldn't even consider living in a neighborhood. Really, there are other options. - 73 de Mike N3LI - |
antenna construction
=================================== A not 'too' visible antenna ,which might not be recognised as an antenna is a loop around the house (provided you live in a detached house). At gutter level at the corners you could fit say 1 foot long 1 inch plastic pipe pointing sidewards or under a suitable angle. Each pipe end has a saw cut to accept the antenna wire which can be sealed with epoxy glue or a piece of tape. Use a twin wire feeder and a suitable matching unit (tuner ,if you prefer that word). The loop should work well for all wave lengths equal or smaller the the loop circumference . While on a 2 months' visit to the LA area (Torrance) I managed to put up such a loop ,extended to the end of the garden making it a full wave length for 75 metres. In spite of being only 10 ft off the ground (probably making it a NVIS antenna) I comfortably worked the Sacramento area. Such a loop is definetely worth a try. Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH Hi Frank, No - I have metal siding on the sides of the house and I tried to load up the siding and the rain gutters, but alas - they are grounded! I am stuck with something in the air. ===================================== In my situation as described above , I also had to deal with (earthed?) metal gutters , but thanks to the 1 inch diam. plastic pipes at the corners of the house ,keeping the antenna away from the gutter ,the loop worked quite well (as an NVIS antenna). Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH |
antenna construction
Howard,
There is one other possible solution, not exactly cheap, or simple, but a solution. How about a 'wire-less' connection between house and car radios? Nasty solution, in my opinion, but... - 'Doc (Good excuse for new equipment??) |
antenna construction
wrote in message ... Howard, There is one other possible solution, not exactly cheap, or simple, but a solution. How about a 'wire-less' connection between house and car radios? Nasty solution, in my opinion, but... - 'Doc (Good excuse for new equipment??) Thanks once again - I will take it under consideration.... |
antenna construction
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antenna construction
Cecil Moore wrote:
Michael Coslo wrote: Good lord, what kind of neighborhood won't allow a flagpole? Unpatriotic creeps? Sounds like you need to get PRB-1 in your corner. Here's what one ham did about his neighborhood antenna restrictions. :-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC_EeWSKJII Cecil: After viewing that video, I was offered this for consideration of my viewing pleasu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJpALdxzFzA&NR=1 And, I enjoyed it also ... GRIN P.S. Isn't there a mental health program for old complaining cows, such as those featured in the antenna clip? wink Warm regards, JS |
antenna construction
Bob Miller wrote:
Hang a 22' vertical wire from your tree... "That darn tree limb swayed in the wind so much I thought it was going to fall off and come crashing down on my car. So I put that 22' piece of wire up to guy the branch. Now it looks nice and steady." "That other tree over there had the same problem. It only required a 16.5' guy wire." Nozy HOA spies? A red LED, a 1.2v watch battery and a magnet, taped together, looks a lot like a surveillence camera from a few yards away. The magnet allows you to toss it up to stick to the side of your A/C unit or any other metal thingie on the roof. "I had some gang member spraypaint taggers try and paint their graffiti on my cadillac. So I had that security camera installed. It records everything that happens on my lot." Substitute "kids try to steal my handicapped plates" instead of "gang member spraypaint taggers" for variety. Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke www.n0eq.com |
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