Renting amateur tower space
 

I am want to develop a network of AIS receivers with coverage of the
US inland waterways(miss, Ohio, Illinois rivers and the gulf).
Searching the web mostly results in sites targeted for cell phone
carriers. Does anyone know of any sites that would be more appropriate
for this type of need? How do locate sites/towers to be used for
repeaters for example?

Ideally well located amateur towers would probably be best.

Thanks in Advance.

Renting amateur tower space
 

isn't the coast guard already doing this? why would an individual want
something like this????

wrote in message
...

I am want to develop a network of AIS receivers with coverage of the
US inland waterways(miss, Ohio, Illinois rivers and the gulf).
Searching the web mostly results in sites targeted for cell phone
carriers. Does anyone know of any sites that would be more appropriate
for this type of need? How do locate sites/towers to be used for
repeaters for example?

Ideally well located amateur towers would probably be best.

Thanks in Advance.

Renting amateur tower space
 

The short answer is no. There currently is no river system wide
network of receivers managed by any company or agency.

We currently have coverage in three areas, but in order to provide a
useful service for safety, monitoring and performance management, more
coverage will be needed. This could either be under the umbrella of
either a non-profit organization or as a standard business.

Now that we've covered the premise of the question.... any help?

On May 28, 7:29*pm, "Dave" wrote:
isn't the coast guard already doing this? *why would an individual want
something like this????

wrote in message

...



I am want to develop a network of AIS receivers with coverage of the
US inland waterways(miss, Ohio, Illinois rivers and the gulf).
Searching the web mostly results in sites targeted for cell phone
carriers. Does anyone know of any sites that would be more appropriate
for this type of need? How do locate sites/towers to be used for
repeaters for example?

Ideally well located amateur towers would probably be best.

Thanks in Advance.

Renting amateur tower space
 

AI4QJ wrote:
Isn't it great when you ask a sensible question and then you get
attacked by someone questioning the motives for your original
question ;-)

I didn't see an "attack". I saw a sensible question
about a cloudy issue.

I don't know how you would feel about loaning
tower space to a navigational aid, but I wouldn't
do it. I'd do it for some hams doing APRS or
something like that. But not for a system that's
designed for safe navigation by commercial vessels.

The last thing I would want would be for something
to go wrong with the install, the tower, the feedline
etc and a barge crashes and loses a billion dollars
in cargo and kills a dozen people.

Now exactly what was that good reason for putting
those gizmos on somebody's ham tower?


Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke

www.n0eq.com

Renting amateur tower space
 

I really do need to clarify here, the gizmo in question is an AIS
receiver. An AIS receiver denied at its birth the ability to transmit
or ever grow up into a transceiver. It is listen only.

As it stands you are in sum danger of interfering with the AIS
system in that it operates on 161.975 and 162.025 so I imagine it
could be some how possible for your VHF set to break in such a way
that it broadcasts over the traffic on these channels. Not probable I
would think.

As for causing collateral damage, AIS is an aid to navigation, not a
replacement for navigation. Given that AIS is a digital communication
even with a transceiver it would take effort to construct a message
that might cause someone to make a decision leading to an accident.

On the other hand, by supporting an AIS receiver for us to use to
archive data, you can help with the accident investigation after the
fact. Or help prevent an accident by allowing real-time proactive
monitoring of shipping behavior, for example by that captains company.
This is already used in the trucking industry.

Thanks to everyone who responded. If you have a VHF line of sight to
any of the inland waterways and would like to help please email me.
Here are some AIS related links that you might find of interest.

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/enav/ais/default.htm
http://www.panbo.com/archives/cat_ais.html
http://www.aislive.com/


On May 29, 9:35*pm, "Lumpy" wrote:
AI4QJ wrote:
Isn't it great when you ask a sensible question and then you get
attacked by someone questioning the motives for your original
question ;-)

I didn't see an "attack". I saw a sensible question
about a cloudy issue.

I don't know how you would feel about loaning
tower space to a navigational aid, but I wouldn't
do it. I'd do it for some hams doing APRS or
something like that. But not for a system that's
designed for safe navigation by commercial vessels.

The last thing I would want would be for something
to go wrong with the install, the tower, the feedline
etc and a barge crashes and loses a billion dollars
in cargo and kills a dozen people.

Now exactly what was that good reason for putting
those gizmos on somebody's ham tower?

Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke

www.n0eq.com

Renting amateur tower space
 

wrote:
I really do need to clarify here,
the gizmo in question is an AIS
receiver...

Then for the benefit of me, at least, who doesn't
know a thing about the gizmo, what exactly does
it do to aid navigation? I was under the impression
it received position and course info from commercial
vessels. You mount it on your pleasure craft and
it helps you to know if you're in the vicinity
of potential traffic.

What exactly is the significance of having a
network of these receivers on land? ie who is it that
is receiving the data and what is the data?


Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke

www.n0eq.com

Renting amateur tower space
 

the longer answer, found in a few short searches is, that its coming... see
the presentation at http://www.gicaonline.com/media/tools/070827_cris.ppt#1

You state that this could be a 'non profit' or 'standard' business... and
that it could be for safety purposes... in which cases i agree with others
that have stated that there is a possible liability issue, whether you see
it or not. once something like this is advertised as a method to improve
safety there is a penalty to pay if it becomes unavailable. Also, renting
space on a tower to a commercial operation can expose hams to loss of
protection of their towers as amateur in some areas... in some places it is
considered the same as changing the purpose of a building from residential
to commercial/industrial which could endager protection under prb-1, or at
least cause headaches for an unsuspecting amateur.

You also now state 'we have coverage'... is that you personally, or you as
this hypothetical 'non profit' or 'standard' business?? if so, please state
your entity rather than hiding behind a gmail account. and let us see what
type of product you have produced in these 3 areas.



wrote in message
...
The short answer is no. There currently is no river system wide
network of receivers managed by any company or agency.

We currently have coverage in three areas, but in order to provide a
useful service for safety, monitoring and performance management, more
coverage will be needed. This could either be under the umbrella of
either a non-profit organization or as a standard business.

Now that we've covered the premise of the question.... any help?

On May 28, 7:29 pm, "Dave" wrote:
isn't the coast guard already doing this? why would an individual want
something like this????

wrote in message

...



I am want to develop a network of AIS receivers with coverage of the
US inland waterways(miss, Ohio, Illinois rivers and the gulf).
Searching the web mostly results in sites targeted for cell phone
carriers. Does anyone know of any sites that would be more appropriate
for this type of need? How do locate sites/towers to be used for
repeaters for example?

Ideally well located amateur towers would probably be best.

Thanks in Advance.

Renting amateur tower space
 

Dave wrote:
You state that this could be a 'non profit' or 'standard' business...
and that it could be for safety purposes... in which cases i agree
with others that have stated that there is a possible liability
issue, whether you see it or not...

Thank you for seeing it. Imagine some kind of incident
occurrs where this system failed. They examine all
the equipment on the ship, on land, wherever.
They find that the tower was used, 50 years old, purchased
from an SK ham estate sale, installed by some local
amateurs over Labor Day weekend, using the original
guy lines and hardware that were on the tower in
it's previous install, and in violation of someone's
CCR's because it now holds some kind of commercial
aid to navigation and the tower owner was away for
the weekend visiting the Hamfest in Dayton.

Even if nothing goes wrong, there's something very
wrong with that picture.

Not to mention, I still don't understand what all
these ground based RECEIVERS are supposed to do.
How does a receiver on shore assist navigation
for a vessel in the water?


Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke

www.n0eq.com

Renting amateur tower space
 

Not to mention, I still don't understand what all
these ground based RECEIVERS are supposed to do.
How does a receiver on shore assist navigation
for a vessel in the water?


AIS is not only an aid to navigation, it's just like APRS for ships, it
allows those ashore at remote locations to monitor the position of vessels.
On a river system I guess it could be used to monitor traffic flow, optimise
lock usage, find out when your vessel is likely to arrive for unloading etc.

73
Jeff

Renting amateur tower space
 

Jeff wrote:

AIS is not only an aid to navigation, it's just like APRS for ships,
it allows those ashore at remote locations to monitor the position of
vessels. On a river system I guess it could be used to monitor
traffic flow, optimise lock usage, find out when your vessel is
likely to arrive for unloading etc.

How does the intended client receive the data?
ie, if there's a tower in E Bumphuk Bay and my
dock/warehouse is up in N Fugawee, how does
that ship position data make it's way to me?

Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke

www.n0eq.com

Renting amateur tower space
 

"Lumpy" wrote in message
...
Dave wrote:
You state that this could be a 'non profit' or 'standard' business...
and that it could be for safety purposes... in which cases i agree
with others that have stated that there is a possible liability
issue, whether you see it or not...

Thank you for seeing it. Imagine some kind of incident
occurrs where this system failed. They examine all
the equipment on the ship, on land, wherever.
They find that the tower was used, 50 years old, purchased
from an SK ham estate sale, installed by some local
amateurs over Labor Day weekend, using the original
guy lines and hardware that were on the tower in
it's previous install, and in violation of someone's
CCR's because it now holds some kind of commercial
aid to navigation and the tower owner was away for
the weekend visiting the Hamfest in Dayton.

Even if nothing goes wrong, there's something very
wrong with that picture.

Not to mention, I still don't understand what all
these ground based RECEIVERS are supposed to do.
How does a receiver on shore assist navigation
for a vessel in the water?


Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke

www.n0eq.com

The information trasmitted by the ships gives heading, speed, callsign and
other data such as length, beam and draught.

Mike.

Renting amateur tower space
 

"Lumpy" wrote in message
...
Jeff wrote:

AIS is not only an aid to navigation, it's just like APRS for ships,
it allows those ashore at remote locations to monitor the position of
vessels. On a river system I guess it could be used to monitor
traffic flow, optimise lock usage, find out when your vessel is
likely to arrive for unloading etc.

How does the intended client receive the data?
ie, if there's a tower in E Bumphuk Bay and my
dock/warehouse is up in N Fugawee, how does
that ship position data make it's way to me?

Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke

www.n0eq.com



via the internet, there is already extensive sharing of AIS data from ships
at sea over the internet.

Jeff

Renting amateur tower space
 

LRKSFAG wrote:
Brother's great, I top you and I are also top-Jin top。'NACHI'

Well, I think that goes without saying.


Craig 'Lumpy' Lemke

www.n0eq.com