ART - Your Many Posts
 

Rather than continually posting your beliefs about *why* your Unwin antenna
operates, please post some provable evidence about *how* it operates with
respect to the fields generated by a standard and well-proven radiator such
as 1/2-wave dipole.

A matched, 100% efficient, linear 1/2-wave dipole with 100 watts of applied
r-f input power at 3.5 MHz develops a peak field intensity of about 70.14
mV/m at a distance of 1 kilometer, in free space.

How does the Unwin antenna compare to this?

If you don't know, or you do and it is considerably less than the value
above -- then probably there is little point in proceeding with your posts.

RF

ART - Your Many Posts
 

Richard Fry wrote:
"How does the Unwin antenna compare to this?"

Yes. I would suggest an A to B comparison with a side by side standard
dipole.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI

ART - Your Many Posts
 

On Jul 8, 6:26 am, "Richard Fry" wrote:
Rather than continually posting your beliefs about *why* your Unwin antenna
operates, please post some provable evidence about *how* it operates with
respect to the fields generated by a standard and well-proven radiator such
as 1/2-wave dipole.

A matched, 100% efficient, linear 1/2-wave dipole with 100 watts of applied
r-f input power at 3.5 MHz develops a peak field intensity of about 70.14
mV/m at a distance of 1 kilometer, in free space.

How does the Unwin antenna compare to this?

If you don't know, or you do and it is considerably less than the value
above -- then probably there is little point in proceeding with your posts.

RF

I have enougth on my hands explaining antennas in equilibrium and you
want me to change course in the middle
and switch to what. you want to talk about! I'll tell you what, refer
to what happens to a current carrying member
as descibed on my page. Now go to a member that is not in equilibrium
and where the external charges move
to one end to meet Newtons law and thus charges in the center which
formally were equal to zero now have a quantitive value.
This states that when equilibrium breakjs down current flowsw in the
CENTER of the conductor.
Start your own thread on that subject while we continue with antennas
in equilibrium

ART - Your Many Posts
 

Art wrote:
"This states that when equilibrium breaks down current flows in the
CENTER of the conductor."

Fact is, only direct current flows in the center of the conductor
because alternating current makes more counter emf in the center of the
conductor than in the exterior. There are more total magnetic flux
linkages at the center and voltage is produced by the rate of change of
these linkages. So, current drnsity is greater as the external surface
of the conductor is approached.

Equilibrium is synonymous with balance or being at rest. An EM wave is
never at rest. A "balanced antenna" has equal capacitance to earth from
both of its feed terminals. Balanced and unbalanced antennas perform
equally well though in application one may be more suitable than the
other. A ground plane may be more easily fed by coax than a dipole but
both have the same power gain. There is no mystic advantage of
equilibrium in an electrical sense, only in contrived nonsense.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI

ART - Your Many Posts
 

On Jul 9, 10:43 am, (Richard Harrison)
wrote:
Art wrote:

"This states that when equilibrium breaks down current flows in the
CENTER of the conductor."

Fact is, only direct current flows in the center of the conductor
because alternating current makes more counter emf in the center of the
conductor than in the exterior. There are more total magnetic flux
linkages at the center and voltage is produced by the rate of change of
these linkages. So, current drnsity is greater as the external surface
of the conductor is approached.

Equilibrium is synonymous with balance or being at rest. An EM wave is
never at rest. A "balanced antenna" has equal capacitance to earth from
both of its feed terminals. Balanced and unbalanced antennas perform
equally well though in application one may be more suitable than the
other. A ground plane may be more easily fed by coax than a dipole but
both have the same power gain. There is no mystic advantage of
equilibrium in an electrical sense, only in contrived nonsense.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI

Sooner or later you will have to change your attitude. Terman was in
error by not including the WEAK force such that a radiator was tilted
and you are still clinging to his line of thought. Think about it
Originally I dampened my antenna by using the
pendulum as a equivalent mechanical example and you saw on my page the
resulting change in the oscillations.
Now you can do the opposite if you have a half wave antenna!. So what
has happened? The half wave is still resonant and the circuit has also
changed to a series circuit so we have lost the energy retention
propertes of the TANK circuit ! At the same time we must still retain
the closed system circuit which means the current must also travel
down the center of the radiator! Imagine that As an old ham who can't
change his ways you can create havoc about that.
Now when the charges move down the center of the radiator it cannot
provide eddy currents so the "skin" resistance is absent during that
part of the perioid.
Note by travelling down the center as a half wave it does not need a
counter poise because going down the center makes it a full wave
circuit.
Ofcourse for any other fraction of a wavelength you have to extent the
resistive portion of the center of the radiator in the form of radials
so that
the closed circuit is a wavelength or a multiple there of. Instead of
the radials in that case you can use instead a variometer so the
properties of wave length multiples are retained. Now if you can;'t
accept this simple logic ask somebody to use a antenna program to
determine the best angle for a vertical to attaim maximum vertical
radiation in the same terms that the masters intended with the correct
useage of their laws. Krauss did by finding the WEAK force
empirically even tho he did not understand why which was why the
helix radiating portion is at an angle with respect to the earths
surface.Note He also proved that a radiator need not be straight by
experimentation without resorting to Gauss when the dynamic extension
is applied
Use of any antenna computer program will produce this same angle with
straight radiators unless preguided to a planar form! So Richard,
saying it is a myth or a fraud is probably O.K. for you because of
your age, but for the younger engineers thay cannot afford not to
change and be left behind in the search of knoweledge. So no further
debate or auguements are necessary between you and I. And I will try
to remember to send flowers when the grim reaper appears at your door
where your position on antennas will matter no more while the rest
move on
and it is only the copper losses or resistance we have to deal with.
Richard, you can;'t mess with mother nature or the Universe

ART - Your Many Posts
 

Congratulations Art! You've really out done yourself this time.
May the 'weak' force be with you...
- 'Doc

ART - Your Many Posts
 

On Jul 9, 4:17 pm, wrote:
Congratulations Art! You've really out done yourself this time.
May the 'weak' force be with you...
- 'Doc

Thank you Mr Midwife which you have now upgraded to Doctor
Delivering a baby in my Mercedes would be a piece of cake.
But in a mini cooper,well.......

ART - Your Many Posts
 

"Art Unwin" wrote:
I have enougth on my hands explaining antennas in equilibrium and you
want me to change course in the middle and switch to what. you want
to talk about!
__________________

First things first, Arthur.

Why do you persist in posting and defending your unproven and zany beliefs
about equilibrium, particles etc that you suggest apply to your "Unwin"
antenna, if you don't even know how the free-space radiation envelope from
your Unwin antenna compares to that of a proven reference radiator, for a
given applied power?

The RADIATION performance of a transmit antenna should be considered before
everything else. Even a 1:1 SWR at the "antenna" input terminals over an
infinite bandwidth means ~nothing if very little to none of the r-f power
applied there is radiated in the form of an EM wave.

Why should any serious investigator be interested in reading about how you
think your Unwin antenna operates, if you can't *first* evaluate, publish,
and scientifically defend its free space radiation characteristics as
compared to a known standard radiator, such as that of a resonant,
center-fed, 1/2-wave dipole?

RF

ART - Your Many Posts
 

On Jul 9, 5:47 pm, "Richard Fry" wrote:
"Art Unwin" wrote:
I have enougth on my hands explaining antennas in equilibrium and you
want me to change course in the middle and switch to what. you want
to talk about!

__________________

First things first, Arthur.

Why do you persist in posting and defending your unproven and zany beliefs
about equilibrium, particles etc that you suggest apply to your "Unwin"
antenna, if you don't even know how the free-space radiation envelope from
your Unwin antenna compares to that of a proven reference radiator, for a
given applied power?

The RADIATION performance of a transmit antenna should be considered before
everything else. Even a 1:1 SWR at the "antenna" input terminals over an
infinite bandwidth means ~nothing if very little to none of the r-f power
applied there is radiated in the form of an EM wave.

Why should any serious investigator be interested in reading about how you
think your Unwin antenna operates, if you can't *first* evaluate, publish,
and scientifically defend its free space radiation characteristics as
compared to a known standard radiator, such as that of a resonant,
center-fed, 1/2-wave dipole?

RF

Yup, it is difficult, But I trust my logic in the face of contrary
statements that have no logic.
How can anybody supply a theory based solely on mathematic
tumbles....... but they do.
How can people who oil tractors and the like on road building and
nothing else and
call themselves engineers,...but they do. Some engineers put a wig on
their heads
and from then call themselves judges........but they do! Some
people unlock the doors
of a radio station every morning and call themselves broardcast
engineers no less
...............but they do!

ART - Your Many Posts
 

Art says,
Yup, it is difficult, But I trust my logic in the face of contrary
statements that have no logic.

And that's fine. But what about trusting your logic in the face of
contrary statements that do have logic? That's not so fine, is it?

You've heard that old expression, "Put up or shut up."? Now's the
time.

And with that, this 'midwife' self-promoted to 'doctor' will retire
gracefully from this nonsense.
- 'Doc

(if I could figure a way to bag this whole thing I could make a
fortune in the fertilizer 'bid-nez'!)

ART - Your Many Posts
 

On Jul 9, 7:51 pm, wrote:
Art says,

Yup, it is difficult, But I trust my logic in the face of contrary
statements that have no logic.

And that's fine. But what about trusting your logic in the face of
contrary statements that do have logic? That's not so fine, is it?

You've heard that old expression, "Put up or shut up."? Now's the
time.

And with that, this 'midwife' self-promoted to 'doctor' will retire
gracefully from this nonsense.
- 'Doc

(if I could figure a way to bag this whole thing I could make a
fortune in the fertilizer 'bid-nez'!)

Goof for you

ART - Your Many Posts
 

Art Unwin wrote:

99% of crap cut

Richard, you can;'t mess with mother nature or the Universe

This is even better than Rosie O'Donnell!

Which isn't saying much, of course.

And no Art, I haven't added a whit of information here. Which precisely
matches the sum total of what you have posted here since you showed up.

tom
K0TAR

ART - Your Many Posts
 

On Jul 9, 10:08 pm, Tom Ring wrote:
Art Unwin wrote:

99% of crap cut

Richard, you can;'t mess with mother nature or the Universe

This is even better than Rosie O'Donnell!

Which isn't saying much, of course.

And no Art, I haven't added a whit of information here. Which precisely
matches the sum total of what you have posted here since you showed up.

tom
K0TAR

Well you have made your point ! Now what do you feel I should do?
Copy your words and return them? Say that I see a veiled threat?
All the above is free speech without contention of any sort so what
do we have to talk about now?

ART - Your Many Posts
 

"Art Unwin" wrote in message
...
On Jul 9, 10:08 pm, Tom Ring wrote:
Art Unwin wrote:

99% of crap cut

Richard, you can;'t mess with mother nature or the Universe

This is even better than Rosie O'Donnell!

Which isn't saying much, of course.

And no Art, I haven't added a whit of information here. Which precisely
matches the sum total of what you have posted here since you showed up.

tom
K0TAR

Well you have made your point ! Now what do you feel I should do?
Copy your words and return them? Say that I see a veiled threat?
All the above is free speech without contention of any sort so what
do we have to talk about now?

This smells of what went around a couple of years ago about the FRACTAL
antennas

ART - Your Many Posts
 

On Jul 9, 10:37 pm, "W3CQH" wrote:
"Art Unwin" wrote in message

...



On Jul 9, 10:08 pm, Tom Ring wrote:
Art Unwin wrote:

99% of crap cut

Richard, you can;'t mess with mother nature or the Universe

This is even better than Rosie O'Donnell!

Which isn't saying much, of course.

And no Art, I haven't added a whit of information here. Which precisely
matches the sum total of what you have posted here since you showed up.

tom
K0TAR

Well you have made your point ! Now what do you feel I should do?
Copy your words and return them? Say that I see a veiled threat?
All the above is free speech without contention of any sort so what
do we have to talk about now?

This smells of what went around a couple of years ago about the FRACTAL
antennas

Yup, I felt sorry for him, especially when he was attacked for being
Jewish
But from what I understand fractals are being used as embedded
antennas
and in other areas of the military so he must be laughing all the way
to the bank
while other hams continued to cry fraud because all they was
interested in was more gain
to become loud mouths.
I wish him well

ART - Your Many Posts
 

W3CQH wrote:
"Art Unwin" wrote in message
...
On Jul 9, 10:08 pm, Tom Ring wrote:
Art Unwin wrote:

99% of crap cut

Richard, you can;'t mess with mother nature or the Universe
This is even better than Rosie O'Donnell!

Which isn't saying much, of course.

And no Art, I haven't added a whit of information here. Which precisely
matches the sum total of what you have posted here since you showed up.

tom
K0TAR
Well you have made your point ! Now what do you feel I should do?
Copy your words and return them? Say that I see a veiled threat?
All the above is free speech without contention of any sort so what
do we have to talk about now?

This smells of what went around a couple of years ago about the FRACTAL
antennas



crossfield antenna & fractal antenna and this crap from art unwin are
just ravings. they simply don't hold up under scrutiny. all the claims
are just so much bs, read kraus, end of subject

kd5foy

ART - Your Many Posts
 

"larry d clark" wrote in message
...
W3CQH wrote:
"Art Unwin" wrote in message
...
On Jul 9, 10:08 pm, Tom Ring wrote:
Art Unwin wrote:

99% of crap cut

Richard, you can;'t mess with mother nature or the Universe
This is even better than Rosie O'Donnell!

Which isn't saying much, of course.

And no Art, I haven't added a whit of information here. Which precisely
matches the sum total of what you have posted here since you showed up.

tom
K0TAR
Well you have made your point ! Now what do you feel I should do?
Copy your words and return them? Say that I see a veiled threat?
All the above is free speech without contention of any sort so what
do we have to talk about now?

This smells of what went around a couple of years ago about the FRACTAL
antennas



crossfield antenna & fractal antenna and this crap from art unwin are
just ravings. they simply don't hold up under scrutiny. all the claims
are just so much bs, read kraus, end of subject

kd5foy

Has it ever occurred to those involved in this thread that Art has outsmarted us
all, and that he is simply pulling our legs and we fell for it all the way? I
know some Brits who are pretty smart blokes, but would like to make us look like
idiots. Some of them can't even get over their loss in the late 1700's.

Walt, W2DU

ART - Your Many Posts
 

On Jul 12, 6:19*pm, "Walter Maxwell" wrote:


Has it ever occurred to those involved in this thread that Art has outsmarted us
all, and that he is simply pulling our legs and we fell for it all the way? I
know some Brits who are pretty smart blokes, but would like to make us look like
idiots. Some of them can't even get over their loss in the late 1700's.

Walt, W2DU

I was thinking the same thing the other day when I read part #1 of
the Art papers..
My first thought was sheesh, there is no way anyone could be "this"
crazy... This must be a troll of epic proportions, and we all are
taking
the bait, hook , line , and gaussian sinker.

ART - Your Many Posts
 

On Jul 12, 6:19 pm, "Walter Maxwell" wrote:
"larry d clark" wrote in . com...



W3CQH wrote:
"Art Unwin" wrote in message
...
On Jul 9, 10:08 pm, Tom Ring wrote:
Art Unwin wrote:

99% of crap cut

Richard, you can;'t mess with mother nature or the Universe
This is even better than Rosie O'Donnell!

Which isn't saying much, of course.

And no Art, I haven't added a whit of information here. Which precisely
matches the sum total of what you have posted here since you showed up.

tom
K0TAR
Well you have made your point ! Now what do you feel I should do?
Copy your words and return them? Say that I see a veiled threat?
All the above is free speech without contention of any sort so what
do we have to talk about now?

This smells of what went around a couple of years ago about the FRACTAL
antennas

crossfield antenna & fractal antenna and this crap from art unwin are
just ravings. they simply don't hold up under scrutiny. all the claims
are just so much bs, read kraus, end of subject

kd5foy

Has it ever occurred to those involved in this thread that Art has outsmarted us
all, and that he is simply pulling our legs and we fell for it all the way? I
know some Brits who are pretty smart blokes, but would like to make us look like
idiots. Some of them can't even get over their loss in the late 1700's.

Walt, W2DU

Walter It was the English residents that fought the Hessians and made
them leave
America was the prison camp for all bad criminals at that time and
when that war came to an end
criminals were then sent to Australia to work their prison terms. At
that time England was at war in Spain so English officers who could
not speak German
were put in charge of the Hessians. Remember that is why Americans try
to speak the english language as it is the language of its forfathers
and soon the language of our fore fathers will prevail on the
population of the Country which will be Spanish. Actually America had
to changer its laws to prevent the president being of English blood
because the English were running the Country. Americans finally took
power and then you were able to make America a debtor country where
we were Bushed wacked If I remember correctly many Uk residents stayed
at the Alamo to fight, don't know where every body else
If what I was sharing was something that I made up I would be so
proud.of my mental capabilities that I would write a fantasy book like
yours and have it printed over and over again to get money from silly
hams! By the way we don't consider America a loss the rent we got for
more than a hundred of years
was quite hansom.. Now china is the lease holder!

ART - Your Many Posts
 

Art Unwin wrote:
On Jul 12, 6:19 pm, "Walter Maxwell" wrote:
"larry d clark" wrote in . com...



W3CQH wrote:
"Art Unwin" wrote in message
...
On Jul 9, 10:08 pm, Tom Ring wrote:
Art Unwin wrote:
99% of crap cut
Richard, you can;'t mess with mother nature or the Universe
This is even better than Rosie O'Donnell!
Which isn't saying much, of course.
And no Art, I haven't added a whit of information here. Which precisely
matches the sum total of what you have posted here since you showed up.
tom
K0TAR
Well you have made your point ! Now what do you feel I should do?
Copy your words and return them? Say that I see a veiled threat?
All the above is free speech without contention of any sort so what
do we have to talk about now?
This smells of what went around a couple of years ago about the FRACTAL
antennas
crossfield antenna & fractal antenna and this crap from art unwin are
just ravings. they simply don't hold up under scrutiny. all the claims
are just so much bs, read kraus, end of subject
kd5foy
Has it ever occurred to those involved in this thread that Art has outsmarted us
all, and that he is simply pulling our legs and we fell for it all the way? I
know some Brits who are pretty smart blokes, but would like to make us look like
idiots. Some of them can't even get over their loss in the late 1700's.

Walt, W2DU

Walter It was the English residents that fought the Hessians and made
them leave
America was the prison camp for all bad criminals at that time and
when that war came to an end
criminals were then sent to Australia to work their prison terms. At
that time England was at war in Spain so English officers who could
not speak German
were put in charge of the Hessians. Remember that is why Americans try
to speak the english language as it is the language of its forfathers
and soon the language of our fore fathers will prevail on the
population of the Country which will be Spanish. Actually America had
to changer its laws to prevent the president being of English blood
because the English were running the Country. Americans finally took
power and then you were able to make America a debtor country where
we were Bushed wacked If I remember correctly many Uk residents stayed
at the Alamo to fight, don't know where every body else
If what I was sharing was something that I made up I would be so
proud.of my mental capabilities that I would write a fantasy book like
yours and have it printed over and over again to get money from silly
hams! By the way we don't consider America a loss the rent we got for
more than a hundred of years
was quite hansom.. Now china is the lease holder!

Arthur, you have such a charming way about you. I note that you don't
mind feeding at the American trough.

Not only are you an antenna theory revisionist, you've now become a
historical revisionist.

Dave K8MN

ART - Your Many Posts
 

On Jul 13, 6:21 am, Dave Heil wrote:
Art Unwin wrote:
On Jul 12, 6:19 pm, "Walter Maxwell" wrote:
"larry d clark" wrote in . com...

W3CQH wrote:
"Art Unwin" wrote in message
...
On Jul 9, 10:08 pm, Tom Ring wrote:
Art Unwin wrote:
99% of crap cut
Richard, you can;'t mess with mother nature or the Universe
This is even better than Rosie O'Donnell!
Which isn't saying much, of course.
And no Art, I haven't added a whit of information here. Which precisely
matches the sum total of what you have posted here since you showed up.
tom
K0TAR
Well you have made your point ! Now what do you feel I should do?
Copy your words and return them? Say that I see a veiled threat?
All the above is free speech without contention of any sort so what
do we have to talk about now?
This smells of what went around a couple of years ago about the FRACTAL
antennas
crossfield antenna & fractal antenna and this crap from art unwin are
just ravings. they simply don't hold up under scrutiny. all the claims
are just so much bs, read kraus, end of subject
kd5foy
Has it ever occurred to those involved in this thread that Art has outsmarted us
all, and that he is simply pulling our legs and we fell for it all the way? I
know some Brits who are pretty smart blokes, but would like to make us look like
idiots. Some of them can't even get over their loss in the late 1700's.

Walt, W2DU

Walter It was the English residents that fought the Hessians and made
them leave
America was the prison camp for all bad criminals at that time and
when that war came to an end
criminals were then sent to Australia to work their prison terms. At
that time England was at war in Spain so English officers who could
not speak German
were put in charge of the Hessians. Remember that is why Americans try
to speak the english language as it is the language of its forfathers
and soon the language of our fore fathers will prevail on the
population of the Country which will be Spanish. Actually America had
to changer its laws to prevent the president being of English blood
because the English were running the Country. Americans finally took
power and then you were able to make America a debtor country where
we were Bushed wacked If I remember correctly many Uk residents stayed
at the Alamo to fight, don't know where every body else
If what I was sharing was something that I made up I would be so
proud.of my mental capabilities that I would write a fantasy book like
yours and have it printed over and over again to get money from silly
hams! By the way we don't consider America a loss the rent we got for
more than a hundred of years
was quite hansom.. Now china is the lease holder!

Arthur, you have such a charming way about you. I note that you don't
mind feeding at the American trough.

Not only are you an antenna theory revisionist, you've now become a
historical revisionist.

Dave K8MN

Well I do get parcels from the red cross like all my present prisoners
of war.Yes I am that old!

ART - Your Many Posts
 

Richard Fry wrote:
"The RADIATION performance of a transmit antenna should be considered
before anything else."

Yes. John D. Kraus, the inventor of the helical antenna, did just that.
In his 1950 edition of "Antennas" on page 176 Kraus wrote:
"The term "transmission mode" is used to describe the manner in which an
electromagnetic wave is propagated along an infinite helix as though the
helix constituted an infinite transmission line or wave guide. A variety
of different transmission modes is possible,

The term "radiation mode" is used to describe the general form of the
far-field pattern of a finite helix. Although an infinite variety of
patterns is possible, two kinds are of particular interest. One is the
axial or beam mode of radiation (R1 mode), and the other is the normal
mode of radiation (Ro mode).

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI