WiFi antenna recommendations?
 

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 17:32:40 -0500, "Bill Kearney"
wrote:

My home system is "1540 Jackson Ave" which is my address. The
assumption is that someone wanting to use my system can bang on the
door and ask permission. My office SSID uses the company name.

Which raises the question, if someone uses your access point without
permission are you within your rights to do whatever you please with the
packets (and their contents) you detect?

Seems fair, steal my airwaves and I'll steal your data in return.

Nope. Two wrongs don't make a right. You'll also find that "an eye
for an eye" and retailiation are not actionable in the USA legal
system. Simply having your rights violated, does not magically make
it open season on the perpetrator. The courts are expected to deal
out the necessary justice, not you. For example, catching a burglar
in the act does not give you the right to pound him into the ground.
You can and probably will be charged with battery for doing that.

I have some experience and opinions with Wi-Fi related crimes and
enforcement, but I don't wanna start yet another political discussion.


----------


Just like feces and politicians, politics is a fact of life.

Where's my coffee...? G


Ed, N2ECW

WiFi antenna recommendations?
 

On Nov 24, 12:46*pm, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 19:26:58 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE





wrote:
On Nov 23, 7:39*pm, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 15:32:02 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

NEC2 model:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/AMOS-7/
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/AMOS-5/ *(not optimized yet)

Fixed. *I was feeling guilty so I ran it through the optimizer in
4NEC2. *I haven't built a 5 dipole AMOS yet using these dimensions.
I put one up I use with a WiFi repeater and I can see dozens of
wirless routers in my neighborhood. *The antena i mounted at about
20ft on my chimney. There are about 8 or 9 with no security. If I so
chose I would never have to pay for internet service. There is another
subdivsion behind my house I havent even looked at that one yet.

If stealing internet service from the neighbors is your intended
purpose, you selected the wrong type of antenna. *A sector antenna may
be a great idea for running a WISP or central access point, where
you're never sure of the direction the client radios are coming from.
It's a bad idea for use at the client end. *The idea is to pickup as
little interference as possible. *You're reception of 9 stations is a
problem as any one of these could provide sufficient interference to
make your pirated internet connection useless. * I suggest you look
into a panel or dish antenna, which will provide a much narrower
horizontal beamwidth, with the added bonus of more antenna gain.

Strange thing I know 3 of the people who have the open systems and
they are *farly savy about these things. I wonder if they are leaving
them open on purpose.

I was running an open access point at my office for a while. *However,
I was also monitoring connection attempts and traffic. *I figured that
nobody would bother. *Wrong. *I had some bum in a pickup truck and
camper, connect regularly to make VoIP phone calls. *I had no problem
with him using the system and we eventually came to an arrangement.
However, he stupidly told all his friends, who immediately abused the
system, so I locked it up with a WPA password.

In another incident, one of my customers was in a hotel that wanted
real money to use their Wi-Fi. *(This was about 6 years ago, before
the widespread proliferation of free Wi-Fi service). *So, he connected
to a random open access point. *The security on his laptop was more
than a little lacking (writable shared folders), resulting in the
installation of multiple trojan horses, spam bots, etc. *I suspect the
open access point was an intentional trap set for hotel visitors.

--
Jeff Liebermann * *
150 Felker St #D * *http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann * * AE6KS * *831-336-2558- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I dont steal internet service but I do have an arrangement with a
couple of my neighbors so we can use each other service.
This has come in handy a couple of time now in just the last few
months when my cable went out and another neighbors cable modem went
out.
Its also a ton of fun just to build the antennas and be able to do it.

I must confess I have tapped in to a few unsecure home APs to check my
email while traveling. These are often easier to find than a hotspot.

Jimmie

WiFi antenna recommendations?
 

On Nov 21, 1:38*am, DaveC wrote:
Looking for outdoor omni "whip" antenna for 2.4 GHz.

Is there any reason to not go for the greatest gain antenna, given that cost
is not too important (within reason)?

There are scads of these on the 'net. I'm looking for someone who has
experience with one or more of them and can make a recommendation for one..

Higher gain omni has flatter /narrower beam. So it has to be pointed
more accurately, tilting as needed to connect with desired AP.

As Jeff says, there's no reason to use an omni for a client. Get a
much cheaper directional antenna and you will get more gain with less
interference. Pointing will be easier too.

Take a look at the pattern for this one:
http://pnt.zoovy.com/product/MD24-12...l_Antenna.html

Or consider a combination weatherproof box with built in panel antenna
like this: http://tinyurl.com/5kfd42
(Choose the version that has the pigtail you need)

That's the first thing you want to determine, by the way, how much
gain is needed? Another thread....


Steve

WiFi antenna recommendations?
 

JIMMIE wrote:

I dont steal internet service but I do have an arrangement with a
couple of my neighbors so we can use each other service.
This has come in handy a couple of time now in just the last few
months when my cable went out and another neighbors cable modem went
out.
Its also a ton of fun just to build the antennas and be able to do it.

I must confess I have tapped in to a few unsecure home APs to check my
email while traveling. These are often easier to find than a hotspot.

Jimmie

Funny story... I work as a contractor and was in an office in Louisiana
that supposedly had an internal wi-fi setup. Signal sure did seem weak
for an internal connection. All the guys there said they didn't know
what happened to it. "It used to work good".

Mr. Boss, the guy who installed it originally, was in town and said
"hey, whats wrong with the wifi?". Turns out the little wireless router
had fallen behind some other gear and become unplugged. All during this
time the office traffic had been going thru the network of a nearby
residence.

WiFi antenna recommendations?
 

Jeff Liebermann wrote:


My home system is "1540 Jackson Ave" which is my address. The
assumption is that someone wanting to use my system can bang on the
door and ask permission. My office SSID uses the company name.
...

Yes, well, my time is too valuable to me ... this is the territory of
control freaks and game players. I am working to provide free, high
speed, internet to all ... yes, I envision homeless people with laptops
on the internet, OF COURSE!


I'll stand by my statement. Unless you're running a mesh network, an
omni at the client end is a bad idea. The client knows the direction
of the desired access point and should use a directional antenna to
minimize interference. In my limited experience (I ran a small WISP
and neighborhood LAN/WLAN for a few years) interference is the most
serious impediment to reliable operation. The more you can do to NOT
hear the undesired stations, the more reliable the connection.


Standby and wait for the world to begin ... you won't be alone.


Sorta. You can do route switching easily enough, but load balancing
between multiple internet connections can't be done without IP
bonding, which requires everyone's cooperation (including the ISP's).
The problem is that you can't use multiple ISP's to improve the
download speed from a single connection. For example, if you want to
download a large file, it will only go as fast as the speed of the
fastest ISP connection. The other WAN interfaces remain comatose
because there's no way to bond the single destination IP to two
different download streams and routes. You can download something
else using the 2nd WAN interface, but you can't use it to increase the
speed of the first. Uploading has a similar limitation, where you
can't improve the speed to a single connection. Where such routers
work best is if there is a LAN full of users sharing multiple WAN
connections, not for a single user looking for "better throughput..."

I've used a few of these with moderate success:
http://www.edimax.com/en/produce_list.php?pl1_id=3&pl2_id=
(See load balancing and multi-homing routers near bottom of page).


See, that is the thing with programmers, imagine it and we make it
happen ... if someone tells you "impossible" they are LYING! BIGTIME!


Incidentally, multiple cient radios, run to a passive combiner in a
single omni antenna is a total loser. The FCC specifically proscribes
synchronizing wi-fi radios. Even if the isolation can be increased
sufficiently to prevent receiver overload, it's highly probable that a
receive packet will arrive exactly when some other client radio goes
into transmit. Some relief can be obtained by using different
non-overlapping channels (1, 6, 11), but only with expensive bandpass
cavity filters. The spread spectrum spreads quite nicely into the
spectrum of the adjacent radio.


If you look for why something cannot be done, I believe it, you will
find it ... if you look how to make something happen, you will, most
likely succeed--given the time and investment of energy ...

Naysayers abound, this group is an excellent place to find them, I don't
consider these people "assets." Frankly, I just ignore them and go
on--you will choose what you wish ... all you have to do is decide on
the path ... but then, something tells me you already have been told
this, and not just once.

Regards,
JS

WiFi antenna recommendations?
 

Dave Platt wrote:

....

It has been my experience, 1 in 10,000 know what they are doing ...
basically, it is a moot point.

Regards,
JS

WiFi antenna recommendations?
 

Ed Cregger wrote:

...
Just like feces and politicians, politics is a fact of life.

Where's my coffee...? G


Ed, N2ECW

LOL!

Best post I ever seen you do! GRIN

Warm regards,
JS

WiFi antenna recommendations?
 

JIMMIE wrote:

...
I dont steal internet service but I do have an arrangement with a
couple of my neighbors so we can use each other service.
This has come in handy a couple of time now in just the last few
months when my cable went out and another neighbors cable modem went
out.
Its also a ton of fun just to build the antennas and be able to do it.

I must confess I have tapped in to a few unsecure home APs to check my
email while traveling. These are often easier to find than a hotspot.

Jimmie

I have a clearwire modem (it is great, inverter in the car, take it any
place with access), cable modem, and one company I contract with has
provided me with a T1 line ... the T1 is what I leave open.

Regards,
JS

WiFi antenna recommendations?
 

Just like feces and politicians, politics is a fact of life.

Where's my coffee...? G


Ed, N2ECW

Here's my favorite political tirade. It seems the russkis underestimated
the destructive power of the propaganda and now we are all screwed.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x32cxf_yuri-bezmenov

WiFi antenna recommendations?
 

In article
,
seaweedsl wrote:

On Nov 21, 1:38*am, DaveC wrote:
Looking for outdoor omni "whip" antenna for 2.4 GHz.

Is there any reason to not go for the greatest gain antenna, given that cost
is not too important (within reason)?

There are scads of these on the 'net. I'm looking for someone who has
experience with one or more of them and can make a recommendation for one.

Higher gain omni has flatter /narrower beam. So it has to be pointed
more accurately, tilting as needed to connect with desired AP.

As Jeff says, there's no reason to use an omni for a client. Get a
much cheaper directional antenna and you will get more gain with less
interference. Pointing will be easier too.

Take a look at the pattern for this one:
http://pnt.zoovy.com/product/MD24-12...l_Antenna.html

Or consider a combination weatherproof box with built in panel antenna
like this: http://tinyurl.com/5kfd42
(Choose the version that has the pigtail you need)

That's the first thing you want to determine, by the way, how much
gain is needed? Another thread....


Steve

There are outfits that make Omni Antennas for the 2.4 Ghz Band, that
have Down-tilt designed into them. This helps deal with the flattening
of the Vertical Polarization for local connections. I have one located
on a 60ft Tower that has multiple AP's at various Azimuths, with ranges
out to 2 miles. Works well for a Central Distribution.

--
Bruce in alaska
add path after fast to reply