|
"Dual crimp" coax connectors?
Halfway down this page (it's a PDF doc):
http://www.cablesandconnectors.com/PIX/CC-040.pdf the TNC and BNC connectors are advertised as "dual-crimp". What does this mean? "Dual" as in center in crimp and outer shield ferrule crimp? As opposed to what? Single-crimp? That would be connectors that use the center, solid conductor as the center pin and then crimp the shield ferrule? Or...? Newly (did you guess?) into small coax connectors and trying to get the terminology straight... Thanks. |
"Dual crimp" coax connectors?
SparkyGuy wrote:
Halfway down this page (it's a PDF doc): http://www.cablesandconnectors.com/PIX/CC-040.pdf the TNC and BNC connectors are advertised as "dual-crimp". What does this mean? "Dual" as in center in crimp and outer shield ferrule crimp? As opposed to what? Single-crimp? That would be connectors that use the center, solid conductor as the center pin and then crimp the shield ferrule? Or...? Newly (did you guess?) into small coax connectors and trying to get the terminology straight... Thanks. No soldering. You need the correct Paladin die. |
"Dual crimp" coax connectors?
On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 12:48:14 -0800, SparkyGuy wrote:
Halfway down this page (it's a PDF doc): http://www.cablesandconnectors.com/PIX/CC-040.pdf the TNC and BNC connectors are advertised as "dual-crimp". What does this mean? "Dual" as in center in crimp and outer shield ferrule crimp? As opposed to what? Single-crimp? That would be connectors that use the center, solid conductor as the center pin and then crimp the shield ferrule? Or...? Newly (did you guess?) into small coax connectors and trying to get the terminology straight... Thanks. The common BNC "crimp" connectors have you solder the center pin to the center conductor of the cable, then assemble the outer with a crimp. It works quite well in my experience, but I have yet to do this without distorting the center insulator and having to trim it with an X-acto knife to get it to fit, and I'm sure that in a critical application (like TNC in the GHz) that I'd be creating an unpredictable impedance bump with my hacking. This is bad enough with cables that have solid dielectric; I can only imagine the pain it would be with foam. In a production environment I'd almost certainly want to spring for the necessary crimp tool to crimp the inner, if the quality were there. (This is opposed to BNC connectors where you thread in a plug to capture the outer conductor between the outer shell and a rubber insert. It also works well, but it is bulky and the connectors cost more. And you're still asked to solder the center pin on, with all of the accompanying center insulator distortion issues). -- Tim Wescott Control systems and communications consulting http://www.wescottdesign.com Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system? "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html |
"Dual crimp" coax connectors?
On Dec 7, 4:23*pm, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 12:48:14 -0800, SparkyGuy wrote: Halfway down this page (it's a PDF doc): http://www.cablesandconnectors.com/PIX/CC-040.pdf the TNC and BNC connectors are advertised as "dual-crimp". What does this mean? "Dual" as in center in crimp and outer shield ferrule crimp? As opposed to what? Single-crimp? That would be connectors that use the center, solid conductor as the center pin and then crimp the shield ferrule? Or...? Newly (did you guess?) into small coax connectors and trying to get the terminology straight... Thanks. The common BNC "crimp" connectors have you solder the center pin to the center conductor of the cable, then assemble the outer with a crimp. It works quite well in my experience, but I have yet to do this without distorting the center insulator and having to trim it with an X-acto knife to get it to fit, and I'm sure that in a critical application (like TNC in the GHz) that I'd be creating an unpredictable impedance bump with my hacking. *This is bad enough with cables that have solid dielectric; I can only imagine the pain it would be with foam. *In a production environment I'd almost certainly want to spring for the necessary crimp tool to crimp the inner, if the quality were there. (This is opposed to BNC connectors where you thread in a plug to capture the outer conductor between the outer shell and a rubber insert. *It also works well, but it is bulky and the connectors cost more. *And you're still asked to solder the center pin on, with all of the accompanying center insulator distortion issues). -- Tim Wescott Control systems and communications consultinghttp://www.wescottdesign.com Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system? "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott Elsevier/Newnes,http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Tim, I solder these on the N connectors all the time with no problems. I have an old Weller soldering gun with the tip removed. I wedge the pin between the two electodes on the gun, slide the pin over the tinned center conductor and pull the trigger for a couple of seconds. The pin cools almost instantly preventing deformation of the insulation. Ive been doing this for over 20 years using the same gun. This may take a little practice not to melt the insulation. I remember that it wasnt to bad getting the hang of it. Jimmie |
"Dual crimp" coax connectors?
On Dec 7, 6:52*pm, JIMMIE wrote:
On Dec 7, 4:23*pm, Tim Wescott wrote: On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 12:48:14 -0800, SparkyGuy wrote: Halfway down this page (it's a PDF doc): http://www.cablesandconnectors.com/PIX/CC-040.pdf the TNC and BNC connectors are advertised as "dual-crimp". What does this mean? "Dual" as in center in crimp and outer shield ferrule crimp? As opposed to what? Single-crimp? That would be connectors that use the center, solid conductor as the center pin and then crimp the shield ferrule? Or...? Newly (did you guess?) into small coax connectors and trying to get the terminology straight... Thanks. The common BNC "crimp" connectors have you solder the center pin to the center conductor of the cable, then assemble the outer with a crimp. It works quite well in my experience, but I have yet to do this without distorting the center insulator and having to trim it with an X-acto knife to get it to fit, and I'm sure that in a critical application (like TNC in the GHz) that I'd be creating an unpredictable impedance bump with my hacking. *This is bad enough with cables that have solid dielectric; I can only imagine the pain it would be with foam. *In a production environment I'd almost certainly want to spring for the necessary crimp tool to crimp the inner, if the quality were there. (This is opposed to BNC connectors where you thread in a plug to capture the outer conductor between the outer shell and a rubber insert. *It also works well, but it is bulky and the connectors cost more. *And you're still asked to solder the center pin on, with all of the accompanying center insulator distortion issues). -- Tim Wescott Control systems and communications consultinghttp://www.wescottdesign.com Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system? "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott Elsevier/Newnes,http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html-Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Tim, I solder these on the N connectors all the time with no problems. I have an old Weller soldering gun with the tip removed. I wedge the pin between the two electodes on the gun, slide the pin over the tinned center conductor and pull the trigger for a couple of seconds. The pin cools almost instantly preventing deformation of the insulation. Ive been doing this for over 20 years using the same gun. This may take a little practice not to melt the insulation. I remember *that it wasnt to bad getting the hang of it. Jimmie Hey OM What size gun did you has a 240watt? How did you get the electrodes so close together? Isn't the center pin of an N connector really small? Or maybe you making lots 7/8 inch of heliax cables huh? Where the center conductor is like 3/8 in copper tubing. Where the 3/8 inch copper tubing would conduct all the heat away from the insulation? 73 OM n8zu |
"Dual crimp" coax connectors?
On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 15:52:21 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE
wrote: Tim, I solder these on the N connectors all the time with no problems. In past life, in a land far far away (Smog Angeles), I once worked for and later ran a comm shop. At the time, UG-21/U male N connectors were commonly available and in fashion. Our 460MHz repeater systems were full of them so I had plenty of experience in soldering, assembling, and repairing these connectors. I don't want to remember all the 25 mile joy rides up the fire road to Santiago and Mojeska Pk just to fix a problem caused by a flakey UG-21/U coax connector. Well, to be totally accurate, I had equal problems with soldered PL-259 connectors. I fought these problems for years because I assumed there was no better way. Meanwhile, I was also involved in an avionics shop (on the business end). They were slowly switching from soldered to crimp type connectors. The owner insisted that is was worth the effort because the number of connector failures and rework had approached zero with the crimp type. I became a believer overnight. Many years later, I designed a few marine radios for the USCG. The specs would tolerate either solder or crimp. So, I asked which they preferred. Crimp was the answer, because they never could teach the techs how to properly solder a connector, while the crimper always does it right. All our radios used crimp connectors, even on the inside. Roll forward more years and we have 10Base2 and 10baseT ethernet. The former uses UG-21/u N connectors. The latter uses BNC. The nice yellow coax cable with the flakey connector was a constant source of headaches. The crimp type BNC's never failed (unless abused). I'm not sure what to suggest. With skill UG-21/u can be made to work. With luck, they can even be kept working in the field. However, I'll take crimp type any day, especially after many year of experience dealing with both. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
"Dual crimp" coax connectors?
raypsi wrote:
Hey OM What size gun did you has a 240watt? [snip] 73 OM n8zu Weller manufactures the following of that type of solder guns: 8200 = 140/100W D550 = 260/200W D650 = 300/200W See http://www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/weller/index.cfm I have an 8200. They make plain copper and iron-clad copper tips (the iron-clad tips last longer). The beauty is that, when your only tip goes open and the local hardware store is closed and you HAVE TO solder something, 12ga solid copper wire can be formed into a tip. :) vy 73, Bryan WA7PRC |
"Dual crimp" coax connectors?
I still have a dual power (500/250) model Weller gun that a friend bought
while we were in the Air Force. He took it out of the package and dropped it on the floor accidentially. A tiny piece of non functional plastic busted off the top, so he threw it in the trash can (he was having a bad day). I pulled it out of the trash, plugged it in and showed him that it still worked fine. I then offered it back to him. He wanted no parts of it. I'm still using it to this day. That 500 watt heating range actually comes in handy now and then. Ed Cregger "Bryan" wrote in message ... raypsi wrote: Hey OM What size gun did you has a 240watt? [snip] 73 OM n8zu Weller manufactures the following of that type of solder guns: 8200 = 140/100W D550 = 260/200W D650 = 300/200W See http://www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/weller/index.cfm I have an 8200. They make plain copper and iron-clad copper tips (the iron-clad tips last longer). The beauty is that, when your only tip goes open and the local hardware store is closed and you HAVE TO solder something, 12ga solid copper wire can be formed into a tip. :) vy 73, Bryan WA7PRC |
"Dual crimp" coax connectors?
On Dec 8, 11:12*pm, "Bryan" wrote:
raypsi wrote: Hey OM What size gun did you has a 240watt? [snip] 73 OM n8zu Weller manufactures the following of that type of solder guns: 8200 = 140/100W D550 = 260/200W D650 = 300/200W Seehttp://www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/weller/index.cfm I have an 8200. *They make plain copper and iron-clad copper tips (the Hey OM But can you wedge a center pin from an N connector in between the electrodes of your 140watt gun (without a tip in the gun) and solder in the center conductor of a piece of coax? hmmm? 73 OM n8zu |
"Dual crimp" coax connectors?
On Dec 8, 4:13*pm, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 15:52:21 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE wrote: Tim, I solder these on the N connectors all the time with no problems. In past life, in a land far far away (Smog Angeles), I once worked for and later ran a comm shop. *At the time, UG-21/U male N connectors were commonly available and in fashion. *Our 460MHz repeater systems were full of them so I had plenty of experience in soldering, assembling, and repairing these connectors. *I don't want to remember all the 25 mile joy rides up the fire road to Santiago and Mojeska Pk just to fix a problem caused by a flakey UG-21/U coax connector. Well, to be totally accurate, I had equal problems with soldered PL-259 connectors. *I fought these problems for years because I assumed there was no better way. Meanwhile, I was also involved in an avionics shop (on the business end). *They were slowly switching from soldered to crimp type connectors. *The owner insisted that is was worth the effort because the number of connector failures and rework had approached zero with the crimp type. *I became a believer overnight. Many years later, I designed a few marine radios for the USCG. *The specs would tolerate either solder or crimp. *So, I asked which they preferred. *Crimp was the answer, because they never could teach the techs how to properly solder a connector, while the crimper always does it right. *All our radios used crimp connectors, even on the inside. Roll forward more years and we have 10Base2 and 10baseT ethernet. *The former uses UG-21/u N connectors. *The latter uses BNC. *The nice yellow coax cable with the flakey connector was a constant source of headaches. *The crimp type BNC's never failed (unless abused). I'm not sure what to suggest. *With skill UG-21/u can be made to work. With luck, they can even be kept working in the field. *However, I'll take crimp type any day, especially after many year of experience dealing with both. -- Jeff Liebermann * * 150 Felker St #D * *http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann * * AE6KS * *831-336-2558 I dont have a problem with crimp on terminals just that where I work someone has always borrowed the crimp tool just when I need it. I always have my trusty soldeing gun handy, no one wants to borrow it. For me one is as easy and works as well as the other. The biggest problem I have with the non crimp type is the shield is eventually cut from the connector. The ones at work that are disconnected weekly for preventive maintenance have only lasted about 20 years before needing the connectors replaced, BUMMER. The crimp-on type are not without their problems. I was doing an inspection after some equipment installation and was able to pull the the ends off of 20 BNC connectors. The inspection stopped at that point and the decision was made to reaccomplish all of the connectors, about 200 of them. The installer was not happy. The problem turned out to be a bad crimp tool. Like the solder-ons if done properly they are both reliable connections. Jimmie |
"Dual crimp" coax connectors?
On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 07:52:00 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE
wrote: I dont have a problem with crimp on terminals just that where I work someone has always borrowed the crimp tool just when I need it. I know the problem. Tools are expensive. However, there are a variety of cheap replacements that seem to work well for me: http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/Misc/slides/crimpers.html I have several sets of these that cover everything from RG-188 to LMR-400 size coax. There's also one for LMR-600 but it was being borrowed when I took the photo. (Yes, it came back eventually). I think I paid about $35/ea for the tools in the photo. At that price, spares are an option. I always have my trusty soldeing gun handy, no one wants to borrow it. When I was working on the bench, I had my soldering iron bolted to a large block of wood to discourage the borrowers. My biggest problem was someone trading or outright stealing my Weller solder tips. I kept my supply locked up and hidden. For me one is as easy and works as well as the other. I beg to differ. Many of my connector installs had to be done in the field, usually at a mountain top repeater site or up on a tower. The problem was that the wind would cool just about any soldering iron, gun, or even a propane torch, sufficiently to cause problems. Same with the USCG vessels, where the coax was snaked through the mast, and the connector had to be crimped at the top in the field. The only place where I would effectively solder a connector was inside a building. I do recall one day on a tower, when I draped my jacket over my head, and soldered some connector by flashlight, but I don't recommend doing that. The biggest problem I have with the non crimp type is the shield is eventually cut from the connector. Agreed. I have the problem with my test cables. A good strain relief is a big help at immobilizing the shield. Pomona jumper cables have molded plastic strain relief's. I use clear shrink tube (so I can see when things are starting to come apart). In general, it's nut much of a problem as I have far more UG-88/u BNC plugs fall apart than the crimped variety. The ones at work that are disconnected weekly for preventive maintenance have only lasted about 20 years before needing the connectors replaced, BUMMER. Weekly? 52 weeks per year times 20 years is over 1000 connector cycles. That's quite a few. I suspect the ears on the BNC jacks will also be worn. I'm not surprised that they're failing. I did some Googling and found specs for UG-88/u connectors ranging from 500-1000 mating cycles. Methinks you're at the upper limit of the lifetime. The crimp-on type are not without their problems. I was doing an inspection after some equipment installation and was able to pull the the ends off of 20 BNC connectors. The inspection stopped at that point and the decision was made to reaccomplish all of the connectors, about 200 of them. The installer was not happy. The problem turned out to be a bad crimp tool. Like the solder-ons if done properly they are both reliable connections. Bummer. At one employer, we had an Amp-o-lectric crimping machine. Someone found that it was possible to mis-adjust the tool to produce defective crimps and proceeded to explore the possibilities. I was blessed with dozens of field failures and a recall because nobody had thought to run a pull test on the crimped connections. Everyone assumed the machine could do no wrong. However, that's the big advantage of a crimped connection... it's consistent. I can't get that kind of consistency from soldered connectors, especially those done in the field. Incidentally, I've seen more damage done by the razor blade coax stripping tools, than by the crimping or soldering. One nick in a solid center conductor and the center pin connection falls apart inside the connector. I try to use a thermal wire stripper, but that also takes some skill. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
"Dual crimp" coax connectors?
In article .net,
SparkyGuy wrote: Halfway down this page (it's a PDF doc): http://www.cablesandconnectors.com/PIX/CC-040.pdf the TNC and BNC connectors are advertised as "dual-crimp". What does this mean? "Dual" as in center in crimp and outer shield ferrule crimp? yes As opposed to what? Single-crimp? That would be connectors that use the center, solid conductor as the center pin yes(solder or captivated and then crimp the shield ferrule? Or...? yes Newly (did you guess?) into small coax connectors and trying to get the terminology straight... you did good are you just trying to learn the terminology or do you really need to make some connectors and seek the best/easiest? way to do that?? if you did you got a bunch of good tips here from the others Thanks. i'll throw in a few other simular options to connectors there are strip tools that can cleanly and safely strip the coax they just spin around and do a great job i've seen cost between 50 to 100bucks depending on coax also you can get a fixed center pin whereby you don't have to solder or crimp, the captivated connectors the outer sheild part gets a crimp only typically a bit of glue on the inside heavy ga heat shrink shrink goes over all they are rated very good soare are the center pins /outer shield that gets crimped using the right tool of course no matter what you use skills at doing the job and inspection/testing of the work will always remain a constant |
"Dual crimp" coax connectors?
One nick in a
solid center conductor and the center pin connection falls apart inside the connector. Can you say more about this? Or point to some web discussions / photos? Thanks. |
"Dual crimp" coax connectors?
no matter what you use skills at doing the job and
inspection/testing of the work will always remain a constant Your spacing makes for difficult parsing and comprehension. |
"Dual crimp" coax connectors?
SparkyGuy wrote:
One nick in a solid center conductor and the center pin connection falls apart inside the connector. Can you say more about this? Or point to some web discussions / photos? Thanks. Any time you nick a solid copper wire it will be severely weakened and will likely break. |
"Dual crimp" coax connectors?
Any time you nick a solid copper wire it will be severely weakened and
will likely break. Dittos, can short internally too. If it is anything important, the cable should be swept or at least checked for return loss at a higher frequency. Just in case the parts were mismatched out of the bag. Quality control can be a batch problem even in the high end stuff. Good help is hard to find. |
"Dual crimp" coax connectors?
On Dec 10, 9:58*am, "JB" wrote:
Any time you nick a solid copper wire it will be severely weakened and will likely break. Dittos, can short internally too. If it is anything important, the cable should be swept or at least checked for return loss at a higher frequency. *Just in case the parts were mismatched out of the bag. *Quality control can be a batch problem even in the high end stuff. *Good help is hard to find. I learned to make cables while assisting installation of a Doppler VOR facility . We were sweeping the pre-made cables that came with the system and finding a lot of them bad. We cut open a few of the bad cables and founnd the center conductor was not in the center of the cable. All of a couple of hundred cables had to be remade and cut for proper phase. The other grunt worker Dust Craig and I became very proficient at putting N connectors on RG-214 and using a vector voltmeter. Jimmie |
"Dual crimp" coax connectors?
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 01:44:29 -0800, SparkyGuy
wrote: One nick in a solid center conductor and the center pin connection falls apart inside the connector. Can you say more about this? Or point to some web discussions / photos? Thanks. There's not much to say or show. The usual example is the common RG-6/u cable TV coax, that uses the solid center wire as the center pin of the F connector. By necessity, the center wire is rather stiff. There's also no way to immobilize the center wire as there would be no room for the mating jack. If the rotary razor blade wire stripper or half asleep tech with the wire cutters manages to nick the center wire, chances are good that moving the cable around will eventually break the center wire at the nick. Crimp type BNC plugs are also susceptible in the same area. The difference is that the center pin is either crimped or soldered. The center pin is also supported by the Teflon insulator. However, if the coax is moved constantly, as is common with test cables, any nicks in the center wire will eventually turn into a break. This one is particularly insidious because it occurs inside the connector, where both ends of the break are supported in place, resulting in an intermittent, rather than a clean break. Big fat center wires are not immune. They just have a different problem. When one of the heavy stranded center wires from RG-8/u style coax breaks at a nick, it's usually perfectly positioned to short to ground. In the common PL-259 UHF connector, the coax end of the break is not supported, resulting in a difficult to find, and impossible to see, intermittent. In my limited experience, the tools that cause the most problems are the ones with the built in razor blades: http://www.mytoolstore.com/ideal/ide08-07.html http://www.mytoolstore.com/ideal/ide08-06.html#coax http://www.mytoolstore.com/ideal/ide08-08.html http://www.fab-corp.com/product.php?productid=1665&cat=281&page=1 http://www.hyperlinktech.com/item.aspx?id=879 (Note the huge variation in pricing) As long as the blades are sharp they work just fine. However, when the blades get dull, the user tends to bend the cable to assist in the cutting, which sometimes results in a nicked center wire. Cleaning up the stripping job with a pair of diagonal cutters also causes problems. Stripping is also difficult with Teflon insulated wire and non-wicking insulation (marine coax), where the dielectric materials are bonded to the conductors. The best way to strip these materials and to be sure not to nick the wires is with a thermal wire stripper. http://www.teledyneinterconnect.com/products/wire_strippers/wirestrip.asp I got lucky and ended up with pile of these from some aerospace surplus outlet. Very handy. Just take care not to breath the fumes. However, if you're working with LMR-400, LMR-600, or larger, the blades of the thermal stripper cannot expand wide enough to fit the coax cable. Therefore, I suggest getting the correct Times Microwave EZ-Strip coax stripper for these cables: http://www.hyperlinktech.com/item.aspx?id=881 http://www.hyperlinktech.com/item.aspx?id=882 -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
"Dual crimp" coax connectors?
A lot of this would seem to be trade secrets.
|
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:50 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
RadioBanter.com