HF Vertical in a septic leach field
 

I have a 5 band Hustler vertical.

Available install space in my backyard is an area adjacent to my septic
system leach field.

I really don't want to place the antenna in the middle of the leach
field and risk hitting an outflow pipe.
If I put it just outside of the reach of the outflow pipes the ground is
still relatively moist due to natural run off and the leach field.

So will this leach field moisture enhance or inhibit the verticals
performance due to soil conductivity.. or none of the above if the
antenna is installed as indicated in the Hustler installation manual. (2
radials per band using insulated copper wire, 4 foot
metal mast pounded directly into the ground, no concrete, no wood).

There is also a 4 foot high chain link fence surrounding my backyard,
300' x 150', one side about 25 feet from the potential install location.
No trees or shrubs closer than 15 feet from the vertical mast.

Steve
N2UBP

HF Vertical in a septic leach field
 

"Steve Stone" wrote in message
...
I have a 5 band Hustler vertical.

Available install space in my backyard is an area adjacent to my septic
system leach field.

I really don't want to place the antenna in the middle of the leach
field and risk hitting an outflow pipe.
If I put it just outside of the reach of the outflow pipes the ground is
still relatively moist due to natural run off and the leach field.

So will this leach field moisture enhance or inhibit the verticals
performance due to soil conductivity.. or none of the above if the
antenna is installed as indicated in the Hustler installation manual. (2
radials per band using insulated copper wire, 4 foot
metal mast pounded directly into the ground, no concrete, no wood).

There is also a 4 foot high chain link fence surrounding my backyard,
300' x 150', one side about 25 feet from the potential install location.
No trees or shrubs closer than 15 feet from the vertical mast.

Steve
N2UBP

You would have to test the conductivity. If you have good soil conductivity
several wavelengths out from your property it will surely add to
performance.

The problem with moisture close to the surface is corrosion. Get the ground
and coax connections up out of the marsh by a foot and seal them.

It probably wouldn't hurt to carefully dig a post hole so you can feel
around, then just fill with gravel.

A pole in the ground does little for RF performance. You can't get
resistance low enough to avoid great losses. Currents are greater in the
first 1/8 wavelength so there is no substitute for keeping low resistance
metal there. Add at least 8 or more full 1/4 wave for the lowest frequency
(and preferably 100 more). It will be more critical at the lower
frequencies. The 2 per band act as a counterpoise and will help keep RF out
of the shack, but do little for performance by themselves. The goal is to
capacitively couple to the surface of the ground with a field of multiple
radials.

I hate chain link fences. Not a big problem when new, but as they age they
actually generate harmonics when you transmit near them. I have a Butternut
HF9v on a metal roof. I had to pay attention to hardware on the roof and
bonding to the metal carport. Traced bad TVI to corrosion on a nearby TV
mast. On a normal roof I would seriously consider running many radials
inside the attic, then lightly camo paint the antenna with Krylon Flat
Acrylic to match the view from the neighbors and break up reflectivity.
Beware though darker colors may detune because of the pigment.

HF Vertical in a septic leach field
 

"JB" wrote

Beware though darker colors may detune because of the pigment.

--------------

Me, I avoid paint with pigment. I'm a beefment paint man, myself. G

My advice is to just put the damned thing up somewhere and get on the air.
Any contact is better than no contact and any piece of metal will provide
you with a QSO or two.

Worrying about perfection with an HF9V is rather pointless anyway. Even my
old HF6V worked the world when the bands were open. When the bands are
closed, nothing works.

Ed, N2ECW

HF Vertical in a septic leach field
 

My advice is to just put the damned thing up somewhere and get on the air.

It has been up for about a month Ed.
I wanted to see what people suggested, since this is the first vertical
I've worked with at my QTH.

Real life results with a IC-746pro and 100 watts on 80m, 40m, and 20m
show this Hustler 5 band vertical as installed works fairly well when
contacts are at least 300 miles or further from my QTH.
Not a flame thrower, but does the job, even from my New York QTH to NWS
offices in Spokane WA and Sacramento, CA.
during SWD.

Only issue is 15m SWR is 3:1 across the entire band, which according to
directions suggest some interaction with objects in my back yard. The
IC746Pro internal tuner can barely tune 15m down to a respectable SWR. I
can tune in 15M if I switch over to a TS-430S and AT-250 external tuner
combo.

For stuff closer in I switch to a 150 foot random wire about 20 feet high.
Come spring I might rework this antenna to be a multi band dipole and
restring it from higher tree branches as long as I can maintain
clearance from the vertical.

My RACES group has the same vertical antenna mounted on the roof top of
the local EOC without radials, about 40 feet above local terrain,
attached to a TS-2000 with about 280 feet of LMR400. I believe the
mounting point is tied into building iron work. We've gotten good
results with SSB on 80 to the state EOC 120 miles away as well as
Winlink Pactor connections to places as far out as British Columbia in
western Canada. We had an option to put it on a 190 foot county comm
tower but I decided not to so we could maintain the antenna ourselves
and not have to wait for profe$$ional tower climbers to schedule repair
actions as needed.

Steve
N2UBP

HF Vertical in a septic leach field
 

Worrying about perfection with an is rather pointless anyway. Even my
old HF6V worked the world when the bands were open. When the bands are
closed, nothing works.

Ed, N2ECW

This HF9V works great on all bands but 2 meter (or is it 6). It was a bit
tricky to tune even with an analyzer. Low angle incidence on 80 though.
Makes it rough for in-state and local comms. Works a lot better on 40-10
than the 4BTV I used.

The 5BTV 10 meter SWR problem may be due to low impedance at the feedpoint.
This is typical if the ground is really good. The fence would be too far
away at 25' to make a difference in match, although it might shield some
energy. Be aware that 4BTV was made in the 60's and radios then had Pi-net
plate tuning and there wouldn't be a problem at all with up to 5:1 SWR

An external tuner really helps on 80 because of the Q. Internal tuners on
radios really fall short. A really decent internal tuner would take up half
the cabinet, so the radio wouldn't sell. Remote auto tuners are really
superior. Cuts down on coax losses. Look out for operation outside of the
design frequencies or traps will burn.

Merry Christmas all!

HF Vertical in a septic leach field
 

"Steve Stone" wrote in message
...
I have a 5 band Hustler vertical.

Available install space in my backyard is an area adjacent to my septic
system leach field.

I really don't want to place the antenna in the middle of the leach field
and risk hitting an outflow pipe.
If I put it just outside of the reach of the outflow pipes the ground is
still relatively moist due to natural run off and the leach field.

So will this leach field moisture enhance or inhibit the verticals
performance due to soil conductivity.. or none of the above if the antenna
is installed as indicated in the Hustler installation manual. (2 radials
per band using insulated copper wire, 4 foot
metal mast pounded directly into the ground, no concrete, no wood).

There is also a 4 foot high chain link fence surrounding my backyard, 300'
x 150', one side about 25 feet from the potential install location.
No trees or shrubs closer than 15 feet from the vertical mast.

Steve
N2UBP




we run the superskyhook sloper on 11 meters, it SCREAMS!

http://i40.tinypic.com/2ykgg05.jpg

mary xmas

HF Vertical in a septic leach field
 

On Dec 24, 2:49*pm, "JB" wrote:
"Steve Stone" wrote in message

...





I have a 5 band Hustler vertical.

Available install space in my backyard is an area adjacent to my septic
system leach field.

I really don't want to place the antenna in the middle of the leach
field and risk hitting an outflow pipe.
If I put it just outside of the reach of the outflow pipes the ground is
still relatively moist due to natural run off and the leach field.

So will this leach field moisture enhance or inhibit the verticals
performance due to soil conductivity.. or none of the above if the
antenna is installed as indicated in the Hustler installation manual. (2
radials per band using insulated copper wire, 4 foot
metal mast pounded directly into the ground, no concrete, no wood).

There is also a 4 foot high chain link fence surrounding my backyard,
300' x 150', one side about 25 feet from the potential install location..
No trees or shrubs closer than 15 feet from the vertical mast.

Steve
N2UBP

You would have to test the conductivity. *If you have good soil conductivity
several wavelengths out from your property it will surely add to
performance.

The problem with moisture close to the surface is corrosion. *Get the ground
and coax connections up out of the marsh by a foot and seal them.

It probably wouldn't hurt to carefully dig a post hole so you can feel
around, then just fill with gravel.

A pole in the ground does little for RF performance. *You can't get
resistance low enough to avoid great losses. *Currents are greater in the
first 1/8 wavelength so there is no substitute for keeping low resistance
metal there. *Add at least 8 or more full 1/4 wave for the lowest frequency
(and preferably 100 more). *It will be more critical at the lower
frequencies. *The 2 per band act as a counterpoise and will help keep RF out
of the shack, but do little for performance by themselves. *The goal is to
capacitively couple to the surface of the ground with a field of multiple
radials.

I hate chain link fences. *Not a big problem when new, but as they age they
actually generate harmonics when you transmit near them. *I have a Butternut
HF9v on a metal roof. *I had to pay attention to hardware on the roof and
bonding to the metal carport. *Traced bad TVI to corrosion on a nearby TV
mast. *On a normal roof I would seriously consider running many radials
inside the attic, then lightly camo paint the antenna with Krylon Flat
Acrylic to match the view from the neighbors and break up reflectivity.
Beware though darker colors may detune because of the pigment.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My neighbor used to have a chain link fence that generated electrical
noise when the wind blew. I didnt realize what was making all the pops
until the house sold and the new owner put up a wooden fence.

Jimmie

HF Vertical in a septic leach field
 

"JIMMIE" wrote in message
...

snip

My neighbor used to have a chain link fence that generated electrical
noise when the wind blew. I didnt realize what was making all the pops
until the house sold and the new owner put up a wooden fence.

Oh, yeah!

This past summer I had occasion to haul some bundled antenna sections on the
roof rack of my van. I was astonished at the BCB intermod that was generated
with every vibration. I think the principal frequency intermoding was a
broadcast station about two miles from the start of my trip, since the
intermod got less and less as I got further away.

I'm familiar with intermods near transmit antennas, having dealt with EMI on
USN ships for many years, but two miles?!?!?

HF Vertical in a septic leach field
 

snip

My neighbor used to have a chain link fence that generated electrical
noise when the wind blew. I didnt realize what was making all the pops
until the house sold and the new owner put up a wooden fence.

Oh, yeah!

This past summer I had occasion to haul some bundled antenna sections on
the
roof rack of my van. I was astonished at the BCB intermod that was
generated
with every vibration. I think the principal frequency intermoding was a
broadcast station about two miles from the start of my trip, since the
intermod got less and less as I got further away.

I'm familiar with intermods near transmit antennas, having dealt with EMI
on
USN ships for many years, but two miles?!?!?

Just like parasitic elements in a Yagi. Yes it does it on RX too. Not only
from the intended signal but chances are there are various closer sources
that can induce voltages in whatever junk is near your RX antenna too.

Very disconcerting to do the lab measurement and getting spurious down 70db
then measure 25db down off the air!?!

HF Vertical in a septic leach field
 

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 23:29:47 -0500, Steve Stone
wrote:

I have a 5 band Hustler vertical.

Available install space in my backyard is an area adjacent to my septic
system leach field.

I really don't want to place the antenna in the middle of the leach
field and risk hitting an outflow pipe.
If I put it just outside of the reach of the outflow pipes the ground is
still relatively moist due to natural run off and the leach field.

So will this leach field moisture enhance or inhibit the verticals
performance due to soil conductivity.. or none of the above if the
antenna is installed as indicated in the Hustler installation manual. (2
radials per band using insulated copper wire, 4 foot
metal mast pounded directly into the ground, no concrete, no wood).

There is also a 4 foot high chain link fence surrounding my backyard,
300' x 150', one side about 25 feet from the potential install location.
No trees or shrubs closer than 15 feet from the vertical mast.

Steve
N2UBP
Just my two cents worth...
The moisture from the septic field won't hurt and it might help a
little.
The chain link fence is unlikely to be of any benefit and may be a
potential nuscience but it is unlikely there is anything you can do
about it. Until the mesh gets close enough to form a screen or the
lengths of components approach resonance it is likely to be invisible.
In my way of thinking the distance from the edge of the septic field
to the middle of it is insignificant.

Even if you don't damage the septic field you and everyone else
concerned about it will worry forever. Don't go there.

Four feet of metal mast in the ground sounds like an awful chore. I
think I would try less. If I drive anything it is usually a ground rod
and mount to that.

Use 1-1/2 inch fence staples to pin the radials to the ground and you
will be amazed at how well everything works! I tie the radials to the
ground rod with a stainless hose clamp, low cost & works fine.

John Ferrell W8CCW