Guy wires to trees?
 

In message , Ken Slimmer
writes
On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 20:28:42 +0000, Ian Jackson wrote:

In message , Ken Slimmer
writes
On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 16:53:38 -0800, D. Stussy wrote:

Stupid idea. Trees grow and thus move over time. They're not stable
long enough for construction purposes.

Mark a spot 4-5 feet up on a tree, 20 years later it will still be 4-5
feet from the ground.

But won't the diameter, where you marked, be a lot greater? Anything
tied to the tree will get buried in the wood. Even if you leave 'room
for expansion', this may still happen. A tight loop, buried in the wood,
will also choke off the sap, and possibly kill the part of the tree
above.

Ian;
We have used trees as supports for barbed wire by wrapping it around
the tree. The tree just grew over it, healing itself as it grew around
it.

This indeed can happen. I did say 'possibly'. I have a grape vine
growing up one wall of the house (and, given half a chance, would take
over the other three), and I see it where I have tied it up a bit too
tightly to the support wires. However, I doubt if any plant is as happy,
healthy or strong as it would have been without the strangulation. It's
the sort of thing that needs to be checked every so often, and suitable
adjustments made.
--
Ian

Guy wires to trees?
 

On Feb 28, 6:41*pm, MTV wrote:
Tower project

I'm in beginning stages of installing a 50' guyed Glen Martin tower, 13"
per side.http://www.glenmartin.com/catalog/page6.html
Finished digging the 45" cube hole for the concrete base yesterday.
Quite a chore with a small hand shovel, but kept thinking about the
"Little Engine that could, "I think I can, I think I can... Started out
with a larger shovel, but the small 'stricker' type was just right at
depth and what I could lift up to the wheel barrow. Soil is a dirt-clay
mix. I figure it took about 18 hours, a couple hours at a time over a
week, since I'm an old geezer.

Next step is to secure the tower base, which consists of 3 28" 3/4"
rods, secured at their top and bottom with metal braces, that will match
the tower base. I'm working on how to secure it in place while concrete
is poured. Thinking of rebar into the dirt sides and bottom corners,
tied securely to the base with wire.

Any better ideas or suggestions?

trees

Any reason I shouldn't use two old healthy 40'+ oak trees as guy
supports from about the bottom 4-5' of the trees? I have three supplied
ground 'screw in' guy anchors, but these trees are in the right place
and I couldn't screw in the ground anchors with so many big tree roots
in the vicinity. Maybe use very large and long screw eye-bolts, or
possibly drill a hole for a bolt through the 15" dia trunk?

The tower and beam will be well grounded. Does it matter if guy wires
are also grounded, or not?

House and 3rd guy

The tower will be about 3-6' from the house and I have a heavy duty
house bracket that could go into a window header 2 x 6 about 8' above
ground. I know it's not necessary, and I have no idea how secure the
header is, but I figure it'd help keep it stable, esp when several guys
would be lose while raising the hazar platform which contains the rotor
and mast while moving it and my beam up the tower and above the top guy
wire brackets. I'll be able to assemble the beam onto the mast while
standing on my 1-story house.

The tower itself, being HD aluminum and about 220 lbs, is to be walked
up by a few good men via the base's hinge plate.

Would like to hear "words of wisdom" from anyone who's worked on a
similar tower project.

TNX

Marv W5MTV

All trees are not created equal. I am sure there are some that are
massive and well anchored enough to do the job. I have a sycamore tree
that would do the job if needed.

JImmie

Guy wires to trees?
 

On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 16:46:21 +0000, Ian Jackson wrote:

In message , Ken Slimmer
writes
On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 20:28:42 +0000, Ian Jackson wrote:

In message , Ken Slimmer
writes
On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 16:53:38 -0800, D. Stussy wrote:

Stupid idea. Trees grow and thus move over time. They're not
stable long enough for construction purposes.

Mark a spot 4-5 feet up on a tree, 20 years later it will still be 4-5
feet from the ground.

But won't the diameter, where you marked, be a lot greater? Anything
tied to the tree will get buried in the wood. Even if you leave 'room
for expansion', this may still happen. A tight loop, buried in the
wood, will also choke off the sap, and possibly kill the part of the
tree above.

Ian;
We have used trees as supports for barbed wire by wrapping it
around
the tree. The tree just grew over it, healing itself as it grew around
it.

This indeed can happen. I did say 'possibly'. I have a grape vine
growing up one wall of the house (and, given half a chance, would take
over the other three), and I see it where I have tied it up a bit too
tightly to the support wires. However, I doubt if any plant is as happy,
healthy or strong as it would have been without the strangulation. It's
the sort of thing that needs to be checked every so often, and suitable
adjustments made.

You can't believe how many trees I have cut for firewood and had barbed
wire, nails, even steel posts in them.



--
73's
Ken Slimmer, WA0SBU

Guy wires to trees?
 

Ken Slimmer wrote:
On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 16:46:21 +0000, Ian Jackson wrote:

In message , Ken Slimmer
writes
On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 20:28:42 +0000, Ian Jackson wrote:

In message , Ken Slimmer
writes
On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 16:53:38 -0800, D. Stussy wrote:

Stupid idea. Trees grow and thus move over time. They're not
stable long enough for construction purposes.
Mark a spot 4-5 feet up on a tree, 20 years later it will still be 4-5
feet from the ground.

But won't the diameter, where you marked, be a lot greater? Anything
tied to the tree will get buried in the wood. Even if you leave 'room
for expansion', this may still happen. A tight loop, buried in the
wood, will also choke off the sap, and possibly kill the part of the
tree above.
Ian;
We have used trees as supports for barbed wire by wrapping it
around
the tree. The tree just grew over it, healing itself as it grew around
it.

This indeed can happen. I did say 'possibly'. I have a grape vine
growing up one wall of the house (and, given half a chance, would take
over the other three), and I see it where I have tied it up a bit too
tightly to the support wires. However, I doubt if any plant is as happy,
healthy or strong as it would have been without the strangulation. It's
the sort of thing that needs to be checked every so often, and suitable
adjustments made.

You can't believe how many trees I have cut for firewood and had barbed
wire, nails, even steel posts in them.



If you want to see someone run. Offer a sawyer a large tree cut from a
fence row.

Guy wires to trees?
 

Sal M. Onella wrote:
"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...

snip

Mark a spot 4-5 feet up on a tree, 20 years later it will still be 4-5
feet from the ground.

But won't the diameter, where you marked, be a lot greater? Anything
tied to the tree will get buried in the wood. Even if you leave 'room
for expansion', this may still happen. A tight loop, buried in the wood,
will also choke off the sap, and possibly kill the part of the tree
above.

I think maybe you could drill a hole through the tree with a wood borer.
The Irwin Speedbor toolset comes to mind. They can be fitted with
extensions for added length. I have two, 6" & 12". They use setscrews to
avoid the bulk of a chuck. Love 'em.

http://www.irwin.com/irwin/consumer/...brand=Speedbor

After the hole is through, slide in a piece of All-Thread, flange it with
some sheet aluminum (and maybe a couple of rubber bumpers to be a little
kinder to the bark) and add nuts. Attach your guy wire to the protruding
end of the All-Thread.

Trees will tolerate being drilled. I mounted a garden hose rack on a tree
about 20 years ago; tree and hose rack still doing fine as of this
afternoon.

================

I didn't see this mentioned: Have you investigated the possible use of a
concrete "deadman anchor"?


What's that? A block of concrete...?

I've measured the growth rings in an almost identical Live Oak we had to
take down after H. Ike. A 1 inch radius growth was about 12-15 years.
Going into the ground just makes another obstacle to mow around. Another
solution may be a steel rail into the ground like a fence post. Will
think about it all some more.

Thanks for the comments!

Marv

Guy wires to trees?
 

"MTV" wrote in message
...

snip


I didn't see this mentioned: Have you investigated the possible use of
a
concrete "deadman anchor"?


What's that? A block of concrete...?

Yes. It's the favored material because it won't rust or corrode, like its
metal counterpart. Metal used sometimes, but only for temporary guys, like
a Field Day antenna tower.

Cut a hole in the ground and prop a metal rod in the hole. Fill around with
concrete, like a fence post. I did a 10' satellite dish mount in 1985.
Sucker never moved a millimeter, even with that big dish hanging off to one
side

Guy wires to trees?
 

"Sal M. Onella" wrote in message
...
"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...

More snippage

After the hole is through, slide in a piece of All-Thread, flange it with
some sheet aluminum (and maybe a couple of rubber bumpers to be a little
kinder to the bark) and add nuts. Attach your guy wire to the protruding
end of the All-Thread.

Trees will tolerate being drilled. I mounted a garden hose rack on a
tree
about 20 years ago; tree and hose rack still doing fine as of this
afternoon.

Mounting a garden hose rack isn't the same as anchoring a guy wire for a
50' tower.

Guy wires to trees?
 

"Ken Slimmer" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 23:39:07 -0500, John Passaneau wrote:
Ken Slimmer wrote:
On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 16:53:38 -0800, D. Stussy wrote:
Stupid idea. Trees grow and thus move over time. They're not stable
long enough for construction purposes.

Mark a spot 4-5 feet up on a tree, 20 years later it will still be 4-5
feet from the ground.

73's
Ken Slimmer, WA0SBU

Bad idea, trees move in the wind even big ones close to the ground.
That
puts a lot of extra strain on the tower. If the tree blows over so does
your tower and trees blow over more often than towers. Also it's bad
for
the tree and can kill it then it's an even worse guy anchor. I've seen
it done and by people who should have known better and it came to a bad
end. My ham club salvaged some nice hard line off the wreckage though.

I wasn't advocating the use of trees as Guy supports for a tower.

No, but the OP of the thread did - a 50' tower.

Guy wires to trees?
 

On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 20:33:36 -0800, D. Stussy wrote:

"Ken Slimmer" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 23:39:07 -0500, John Passaneau wrote:
Ken Slimmer wrote:
On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 16:53:38 -0800, D. Stussy wrote:
Stupid idea. Trees grow and thus move over time. They're not
stable long enough for construction purposes.

Mark a spot 4-5 feet up on a tree, 20 years later it will still be
4-5 feet from the ground.

73's
Ken Slimmer, WA0SBU

Bad idea, trees move in the wind even big ones close to the ground.
That
puts a lot of extra strain on the tower. If the tree blows over so
does your tower and trees blow over more often than towers. Also it's
bad
for
the tree and can kill it then it's an even worse guy anchor. I've
seen it done and by people who should have known better and it came
to a bad end. My ham club salvaged some nice hard line off the
wreckage though.

I wasn't advocating the use of trees as Guy supports for a tower.

No, but the OP of the thread did - a 50' tower.

I called the tree police, they said unless you could prove he was abusing
his tree's there was little they could do about it. :-)

Have a great day
--
73's
Ken Slimmer, WA0SBU

Guy wires to trees?
 

"Ken Slimmer" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 20:33:36 -0800, D. Stussy wrote:
"Ken Slimmer" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 01 Mar 2009 23:39:07 -0500, John Passaneau wrote:
Ken Slimmer wrote:
On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 16:53:38 -0800, D. Stussy wrote:
Stupid idea. Trees grow and thus move over time. They're not
stable long enough for construction purposes.

Mark a spot 4-5 feet up on a tree, 20 years later it will still be
4-5 feet from the ground.

Bad idea, trees move in the wind even big ones close to the ground.
That
puts a lot of extra strain on the tower. If the tree blows over so
does your tower and trees blow over more often than towers. Also
it's
bad for
the tree and can kill it then it's an even worse guy anchor. I've
seen it done and by people who should have known better and it came
to a bad end. My ham club salvaged some nice hard line off the
wreckage though.

I wasn't advocating the use of trees as Guy supports for a tower.

No, but the OP of the thread did - a 50' tower.

I called the tree police, they said unless you could prove he was abusing
his tree's there was little they could do about it. :-)

Did you also call the tower police to see if he was abusing the tower?