Circular versus linear polarization
 

On Aug 12, 2:17*am, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:01:49 -0500, tom wrote:
Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Applied CP made simple:

1. *Circular polarization is like a drill. *Instead of bouncing off
the ionosphere, it drills right through it. *Therefore, little or no
skip with CP.

So the ionosphere knows the difference between CP and linear?

I suspect the decision making abilities of the ionosphere approaches
zero. *Attributing intelligence to inanimate objects is generally a
bad idea.

Interesting, since horizontal and vertical both reflect, and CP is a
combination of both.

Could you please explain what's happening with CP?

Ummm.... no, I can't.
Please read my other points and see if they pass a sanity check.

Incidentally #2 should read:
"If you're sending CW (not CP) with your right hand..."
Sorry(tm).

I just hate it when someone takes me seriously.

--
Jeff Liebermann * *
150 Felker St #D * *http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann * * AE6KS * *831-336-2558

Some people just have no sense of humor.

Jimmie

Circular versus linear polarization
 

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 10:10:17 -0700 (PDT), JIMMIE
wrote:

On Aug 12, 2:17*am, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
I just hate it when someone takes me seriously.

Some people just have no sense of humor.
Jimmie

In my case, it's too much sense of humor. Answering questions with
accurate information is easy. Just Google the question, excavate
through the resultant debris field, and pontificate on what is found.
A dash of authority and a hint of arrogance provides a defensible
packaged answer. A few URL's are always useful.

However, that's too easy, no fun, and most important, can be done by
any mortal. What's more interesting is to supply a series of wrong
answers. In order to do that, one must know both the right answers,
how things really work, and enough about the problem to be able to
successfully misinterpret any data, phenomenon, and physics. That
requires considerably more skill than merely knowing or finding the
right answer. What looks like humor, is really an intellectual
exercise.

Note that supplying wrong answers is not limited to technical Usenet
newsgroups. Lawyers do it while presenting evidence to give the jury
a misleading packaged interpretation of the evidence.

There's also an educational benefit from providing wrong answers. If
one knows all the wrong answers, whatever is left, no matter how
complex or irrational, must be the right answer. Therefore, if you
study how thing do NOT work, you will have a default understanding of
how things actually do work.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Circular versus linear polarization
 

tom wrote:
Art Unwin wrote:
The majority of antennas used today are (commercial) circularly
polarized
Ham antennas remain in the linear domain (ala the Yagi and similar)
There are many reasons espoused in CP advantages in "point to point"
What is the main advantage hams hold over the more popular circular
polarized antennas in its "skip" type useage versus "point to point" ?

Please provide examples of commercial antennas that are CP. Space
communication antennas are not ok to include.

FM and TV broadcast.

Circular versus linear polarization
 

Art Unwin wrote:


Use your own thread to ask for assistance on your question.
Be prepared to answer why you are requesting this personal service .
I asked a question on this thread with respect to the main advantage
for hams that linear
polarization has over CP. I have no resistance to change if it can be
justified. I see
that it can pick up signals that linear antennas cannot hear because
of a 30 db attenuation
where as CP has only a 3 db attenuation!

Compared to what?

Circular versus linear polarization
 

On Aug 12, 3:21*pm, dave wrote:
Art Unwin wrote:

Use your own thread to ask for assistance on your question.
*Be prepared to answer why you are requesting this personal service .
I asked a question on this thread with respect to the main advantage
for hams that linear
polarization has over CP. I have no resistance to change if it can be
justified. I see
that it can pick up signals that linear antennas cannot hear because
of a 30 db attenuation
where as CP has only a 3 db attenuation!

Compared to what?

I thought he said earlirer that it had a 3 db gain

Circular versus linear polarization
 

On Aug 12, 3:42*pm, JIMMIE wrote:
On Aug 12, 3:21*pm, dave wrote:

Art Unwin wrote:

Use your own thread to ask for assistance on your question.
*Be prepared to answer why you are requesting this personal service

Circular versus linear polarization
 

Art Unwin wrote:

Use your own thread to ask for assistance on your question.
Be prepared to answer why you are requesting this personal service .
I asked a question on this thread with respect to the main advantage
for hams that linear
polarization has over CP. I have no resistance to change if it can be
justified. I see
that it can pick up signals that linear antennas cannot hear because
of a 30 db attenuation
where as CP has only a 3 db attenuation!
So what is it on the other side of the coin is what this thread is
posing to those who are familiar with respect to radiators.

You stated that MOST commercial antennas are CP. Having been in that
business to some extent, I know that statement to be false. I'm simple
asking you to prove it.

Also where is this information that shows linear antennas have 30dB of
attenuation? When? How? What conditions?

And when do the CP antennas have 3dB by comparison? Give references.

I know you can't since all these things are figments of your addled brain.

tom
K0TAR

Circular versus linear polarization
 

On Aug 12, 3:42*pm, JIMMIE wrote:
On Aug 12, 3:21*pm, dave wrote:

Art Unwin wrote:

Use your own thread to ask for assistance on your question.
*Be prepared to answer why you are requesting this personal service

Circular versus linear polarization
 

Art Unwin wrote:
On Aug 12, 3:42 pm, JIMMIE wrote:
On Aug 12, 3:21 pm, dave wrote:

Art Unwin wrote:
Use your own thread to ask for assistance on your question.
Be prepared to answer why you are requesting this personal service .
I asked a question on this thread with respect to the main advantage
for hams that linear
polarization has over CP. I have no resistance to change if it can be
justified. I see
that it can pick up signals that linear antennas cannot hear because
of a 30 db attenuation
where as CP has only a 3 db attenuation!
Compared to what?
I thought he said earlirer that it had a 3 db gain

When I modeled my antenna the max gain was CP I then checked for
linear gains
on the same set up and they were 3 db down. I suppose I should have
set it up for max linear gain and then checked CP gain on the same set
up. (Made a note to myself for future). For end fed antenna, the gain
max was around 13 dbi but 10 dbi seemed to be more the norm. What
really pleased me was the near 50 ohm impedance feed.
The biggest advantage is that people with small yards will now have no
problems on getting on top band with directional antenna and be able
to use the whole band! However, regardless on the ideas I have checked
out on it I am very confident that hams will immediately will be able
to improve it in ways I have not thought of. As with all thoughts
others will say I knew that but I couldn't be bothered because once
the dots are connected
everything appears to be obvious. A jigsaw puzzle with all the parts
turned over is tremendously hard to solve. Once you have seen the
picture it is a different ball game.
The antenna is extremely quiet, and as I have mentioned before the
audio quality is such that I immediately look at the meter only to see
it on the low side. Perhaps the CP pickup
does not register the same as for linear. It is my hope that all will
tackle building one this fall
so that the improvement horizon will broaden while I am still around.

And except for his ridiculous claims he will give no details of the
antennas he makes the claims for.

You are a fraud Art.

tom
K0TAR

Circular versus linear polarization
 

dave wrote:
tom wrote:
Art Unwin wrote:
The majority of antennas used today are (commercial) circularly
polarized
Ham antennas remain in the linear domain (ala the Yagi and similar)
There are many reasons espoused in CP advantages in "point to point"
What is the main advantage hams hold over the more popular circular
polarized antennas in its "skip" type useage versus "point to point" ?

Please provide examples of commercial antennas that are CP. Space
communication antennas are not ok to include.

FM and TV broadcast.

I asked him, not you because he wouldn't know any answers.

Now you've given it all away!

And he said "the majority" which is untrue.

tom
K0TAR