Spherical radiation pattern
 

On Sep 17, 7:49*pm, Richard Fry wrote:
On Sep 17, 7:02*pm, Art Unwin wrote: ... I found that out by making a resonant directional antenna
*for all the TOP band that fits into my rotor on the tower.

__________

What do you mean by (self) resonant?

Physics shows that NO radiator as small as fits into the rotor on your
tower, by itself, could possibly be self-resonant at "TOP band."

RF

With "David" being barred from the group there should be no obstacle
to closing this thread
It really was all for his benefit so he could provide insults and now
there is no need for it.

Spherical radiation pattern
 

On Sep 17, 8:51*pm, tom wrote:
Art Unwin wrote:
On Sep 17, 7:49 pm, Richard Fry wrote:
On Sep 17, 7:02 pm, Art Unwin wrote: ... I found that out by making a resonant directional antenna
*for all the TOP band that fits into my rotor on the tower.
__________

What do you mean by (self) resonant?

Physics shows that NO radiator as small as fits into the rotor on your
tower, by itself, could possibly be self-resonant at "TOP band."

RF

Watch the PTO print outs. No statements last for ever in physics
I'm done

You've been done for a looong time, Art. *You just don't realize it yet..

Your patent attempt proves nothing. *It's bad physics, and even with the
clueless dips that work in the patent office you are still being
rejected. *It's gotta be pretty useless if they won't approve it.

tom
K0TAR

It is very normal for them to request changes. Obviously you have
never filed a patent
or done anything that would warrant one. Why not pair up with David
and write one yourself
or do you have some already? No that can't be, otherwise you would be
aware of office actions as it goes on all the time. So is it you who
is now Master of the group and self esteemed expert that we all now
have to follow? Your insults are as good as Davids was!
Either way I'm done for a while.

Spherical radiation pattern
 

Art Unwin wrote:
On Sep 17, 7:49 pm, Richard Fry wrote:
On Sep 17, 7:02 pm, Art Unwin wrote: ... I found that out by making a resonant directional antenna
for all the TOP band that fits into my rotor on the tower.
__________

What do you mean by (self) resonant?

Physics shows that NO radiator as small as fits into the rotor on your
tower, by itself, could possibly be self-resonant at "TOP band."

RF

With "David" being barred from the group there should be no obstacle
to closing this thread
It really was all for his benefit so he could provide insults and now
there is no need for it.

"David" had nothing to do with the last 4 exchanges anyway. What the
hell are you blabbering about?

And who "barred" him? You? If you think that's the case, you carry no
weight with the group to begin with, and no one, no matter how much
respect they get from the group, can bar anyone.

This is an open newsgroup, and anyone can post, even loonies like you.

tom
K0TAR

Spherical radiation pattern
 

Art Unwin wrote:
It is very normal for them to request changes. Obviously you have
never filed a patent
or done anything that would warrant one. Why not pair up with David
and write one yourself
or do you have some already? No that can't be, otherwise you would be
aware of office actions as it goes on all the time. So is it you who
is now Master of the group and self esteemed expert that we all now
have to follow? Your insults are as good as Davids was!
Either way I'm done for a while.

Wonderful!! But I doubt you will keep the promise.

And you have no idea of how many patents I've been involved with. But I
can safely say the companies I have worked for have made more money from
our patents than you have.

tom
K0TAR

Spherical radiation pattern
 

tom wrote:

And you have no idea of how many patents I've been involved with. But I
can safely say the companies I have worked for have made more money from
our patents than you have.

Which should have been "than you have from yours."

tom
K0TAR

Spherical radiation pattern
 

christofire wrote:
Then the
assumption of equal forward and reflected traveling waves of current can't
be right, because that would imply no radiation ...

Of course you are right. But the forward and reflected waves
are equal at the ends of the dipole. At the feedpoint of a
1/2WL dipole the reflected current is only ~10% down from
the forward current so the equal current assumption through
the center loading coil is definitely only an approximation.

The question remains: How can the current on a standing wave
antenna, known to change by only 2-3 degrees in 90 degrees
of antenna, be used to measure the delay through a loading
coil installed in the standing wave antenna?

Incidentally, the equal amplitude and opposite phase of the
forward current and reflected current at the ends of a 1/2WL
dipole is the reason that the ends don't radiate much. The
two currents are acting like transmission line currents and
thus any radiated fields tend to cancel because of destructive
interference.

The forward current and reflected current are in phase at
the feedpoint. Their fields interfere constructively and
thus radiation is maximum at that maximum current point.
--
73, Cecil, IEEE, OOTC, http://www.w5dxp.com

Spherical radiation pattern
 

"Art Unwin" wrote in message
...
On Sep 11, 6:36 pm, "Dave" wrote:

The problem is that all forces are not accounted for per Maxwell
requirements!

maxwell made no such requirement. the strong, weak, and gravitational force
are not in his equations... never were and never will be.

In your case magnetic energy remains with the radiator which is a loss
that is unaccounted for ! This loss does not occur with a diamagnetic
materials. Very simple my dear Watson.

then why do my ferromagnetic antennas work better than there diamagnetic
predecessor??

If a design is planar it just cannot be 100% efficient as when all
forced are accounted for.

nothing is 100%

Spherical radiation pattern
 

"Art Unwin" wrote in message
...
I'm done

sure you are...

Spherical radiation pattern
 

"Art Unwin" wrote in message
...
With "David" being barred from the group there should be no obstacle
to closing this thread

who is barred?? i've just been busy with real antennas getting ready for
winter. i will be gone in another week or so because verizon caved in and
will be dumping usenet. maybe i'll resurrect myself with some other
service, but none that i have to pay for, you aren't that much fun.

It really was all for his benefit so he could provide insults and now
there is no need for it.

awww, i'm sure there are others who get as much of a laugh at your rantings
and random phrases as i do! keep going!!

Spherical radiation pattern
 

On Sep 18, 12:51*pm, "Dave" wrote:
"Art Unwin" wrote in message

...
On Sep 11, 6:36 pm, "Dave" wrote:

The problem is that all forces are not accounted for per Maxwell
requirements!

maxwell made no such requirement. *the strong, weak, and gravitational force
are not in his equations... never were and never will be.

In your case magnetic energy remains with the radiator which is a loss
that is unaccounted for ! This loss does not occur with a diamagnetic
materials. Very simple my dear Watson.

then why do my ferromagnetic antennas work better than there diamagnetic
predecessor??

If a design is planar it just cannot be 100% efficient as when all
forced are accounted for.

nothing is 100%

This is when all current is transferred to the particle encapsulation
and no current travels
in the radiator carrier ie Radiation resistance is 52 ohms

Spherical radiation pattern
 

On Sep 18, 12:55*pm, "Dave" wrote:
"Art Unwin" wrote in message

...

With "David" being barred from the group there should be no obstacle
to closing this thread

who is barred?? *i've just been busy with real antennas getting ready for
winter. *i will be gone in another week or so because verizon caved in and
will be dumping usenet. *maybe i'll resurrect myself with some other
service, but none that i have to pay for, you aren't that much fun.

It really was all for his benefit so he could provide insults and now
there is no need for it.

awww, i'm sure there are others who get as much of a laugh at your rantings
and random phrases as i do! *keep going!!

Your profile states you are barred on all of your past postings!

Spherical radiation pattern
 

"Art Unwin" wrote in message
...

Your profile states you are barred on all of your past postings!
profile?? what profile?? we don't need no stinking profile! this is
usenet, i post via a news server, it has no profile of me, it just accepts
postings and sends them out to the world.

Spherical radiation pattern
 

On Sep 18, 3:18*pm, "Dave" wrote:
"Art Unwin" wrote in message

...

Your profile states you are barred on all of your past postings!

profile?? *what profile?? *we don't need no stinking profile! *this is
usenet, i post via a news server, it has no profile of me, it just accepts
postings and sends them out to the world.

Well that is good news. I await your next insult

Spherical radiation pattern
 

Cecil, W5DXP wrote:
"The forwerd and the reflected current sre in phase at the feedpoint and
thus radiation is maximum at that maximum current point."

Exactly. The reflected current has made s round trip of 180 degrees plus
the reflection has added another 180 degrees for a total of 360 degrees
or back in phase with the forward current at the feedpoint.

At the open circuited ends of a resonant antenna there is almost double
the forward voltage but zero total current due to cancellation of the
dorward and reflected currents at the open circuit. At the open circuit
in the wire, all the energy in the wave is transferred to the electric
field.

The relationship between the input power of a given antenna and the
strength of the far electromagnetic field which it will produce depends
among other factors the length and shape of the antenna.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI

Spherical radiation pattern
 

Dave wrote:
i will be gone in another week or so because verizon caved
in and will be dumping usenet. maybe i'll resurrect myself with some
other service, but none that i have to pay for, you aren't that much fun.

Groups.google.com is free if one can tolerate the clumsy interface.
--
73, Cecil, IEEE, OOTC, http://www.w5dxp.com

Spherical radiation pattern
 

"Richard Harrison" wrote
...
Cecil, W5DXP wrote:
"The forwerd and the reflected current sre in phase at the feedpoint and
thus radiation is maximum at that maximum current point."

Exactly. The reflected current has made s round trip of 180 degrees plus
the reflection has added another 180 degrees for a total of 360 degrees
or back in phase with the forward current at the feedpoint.

At the open circuited ends of a resonant antenna there is almost double
the forward voltage

Could you tell us if the "almost double voltage" is the measured of
theoretically predicted?

but zero total current due to cancellation of the
dorward and reflected currents at the open circuit. At the open circuit
in the wire, all the energy in the wave is transferred to the electric
field.

The relationship between the input power of a given antenna and the
strength of the far electromagnetic field which it will produce depends
among other factors the length and shape of the antenna.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI
S*

Spherical radiation pattern
 

Szczepan Bia³ek wrote:
Could you tell us if the "almost double voltage" is the measured of
theoretically predicted?

Since a voltage reference point is difficult to achieve
at the ends of a dipole, we rely on the conservation of
energy principle. Since the current is zero at the ends
of a dipole, all the energy must be contained in the
electric field. With that knowledge, the voltage can
be estimated.

Such is easy to understand by taking voltage measurements
on a 1/4WL open-circuit stub. If one uses resistance wire
for the stub, one can simulate radiation loss in a dipole.

The following is a transmission line simulation of a 1/4WL
monopole designed to run on the free demo version of EZNEC
available from www.eznec.com

http://www.w5dxp.com/stub_dip.EZ

The user defined resistivity of the wire is what causes
the 35 ohm feedpoint resistance akin to a 1/4WL monopole.
The 10 megohm load allows us to look at the voltage
across the "open" end of the stub. It is 1033 volts for
a 100 watt input. We can assume the forward voltage and
the reflected voltage at the end of the stub are equal
at 516 volts.
--
73, Cecil, IEEE, OOTC, http://www.w5dxp.com

Spherical radiation pattern
 

"Cecil Moore" wrote
...
Szczepan Bia³ek wrote:
Could you tell us if the "almost double voltage" is the measured of
theoretically predicted?

Since a voltage reference point is difficult to achieve
at the ends of a dipole, we rely on the conservation of
energy principle. Since the current is zero at the ends
of a dipole, all the energy must be contained in the
electric field. With that knowledge, the voltage can
be estimated.

Such is easy to understand by taking voltage measurements
on a 1/4WL open-circuit stub. If one uses resistance wire
for the stub, one can simulate radiation loss in a dipole.

The following is a transmission line simulation of a 1/4WL
monopole designed to run on the free demo version of EZNEC
available from www.eznec.com

http://www.w5dxp.com/stub_dip.EZ

The user defined resistivity of the wire is what causes
the 35 ohm feedpoint resistance akin to a 1/4WL monopole.
The 10 megohm load allows us to look at the voltage
across the "open" end of the stub. It is 1033 volts for
a 100 watt input. We can assume the forward voltage and
the reflected voltage at the end of the stub are equal
at 516 volts.

The acoustic analogy predict it: "Between the nodes are places where the
amplitude is doubled. So the places
with doubled amplitude are standing. Pressure pulse travel.
In antennas is electron gas. The first place where the doubled amplitude
(amplitude means voltage or electron density) appear is end of the radials.
The next is halve wave apart from the end. Such places radiate strong
electric waves. They are the source of radiation."
S*

--
73, Cecil, IEEE, OOTC, http://www.w5dxp.com

Spherical radiation pattern
 

Szczepan Bia³ek wrote:
In antennas is electron gas.

Your "electron gas" is a cloud of photons emitted
by electrons. Those photons are infinitely
"compressible".

The first place where the doubled amplitude
(amplitude means voltage or electron density) appear is end of the radials.
The next is halve wave apart from the end. Such places radiate strong
electric waves. They are the source of radiation."

Again, it is impossible for the voltage maximums and
current maximums to both radiate since such would
double the radiated frequency which it doesn't. We
usually transmit and receive on the same frequency.

You must decide whether the peak radiation comes
from the current maximum or the voltage maximum since
they do not occur at the same time. Until you make
that choice, rational discussion is not possible.
--
73, Cecil, IEEE, OOTC, http://www.w5dxp.com

Spherical radiation pattern
 

"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
...

"Richard Harrison" wrote
...
Cecil, W5DXP wrote:
"The forwerd and the reflected current sre in phase at the feedpoint and
thus radiation is maximum at that maximum current point."

Exactly. The reflected current has made s round trip of 180 degrees plus
the reflection has added another 180 degrees for a total of 360 degrees
or back in phase with the forward current at the feedpoint.

At the open circuited ends of a resonant antenna there is almost double
the forward voltage

Could you tell us if the "almost double voltage" is the measured of
theoretically predicted?

both

Spherical radiation pattern
 

"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
...

"Cecil Moore" wrote
...
Szczepan Bia³ek wrote:
Could you tell us if the "almost double voltage" is the measured of
theoretically predicted?

Since a voltage reference point is difficult to achieve
at the ends of a dipole, we rely on the conservation of
energy principle. Since the current is zero at the ends
of a dipole, all the energy must be contained in the
electric field. With that knowledge, the voltage can
be estimated.

Such is easy to understand by taking voltage measurements
on a 1/4WL open-circuit stub. If one uses resistance wire
for the stub, one can simulate radiation loss in a dipole.

The following is a transmission line simulation of a 1/4WL
monopole designed to run on the free demo version of EZNEC
available from www.eznec.com

http://www.w5dxp.com/stub_dip.EZ

The user defined resistivity of the wire is what causes
the 35 ohm feedpoint resistance akin to a 1/4WL monopole.
The 10 megohm load allows us to look at the voltage
across the "open" end of the stub. It is 1033 volts for
a 100 watt input. We can assume the forward voltage and
the reflected voltage at the end of the stub are equal
at 516 volts.

The acoustic analogy predict it: "Between the nodes are places where the
amplitude is doubled. So the places
with doubled amplitude are standing. Pressure pulse travel.
In antennas is electron gas. The first place where the doubled amplitude
(amplitude means voltage or electron density) appear is end of the
radials.
The next is halve wave apart from the end. Such places radiate strong
electric waves. They are the source of radiation."

no, they are called electro-magnetic waves for a REASON! it takes BOTH
fields to make up a propagating wave. So it is not the ends that radiate,
it is the whole length where there are both electric and magnetic fields
generated in smooth transitions of the sine wave, not in pulses.