Tim Shoppa wrote:
But if you don't really need that 50 feet of feedline then why keep
it? Straightest shot to the antenna will always be superior unless you
want that extra 50 feet for impedance transformation or something
else.

100 feet of ladder-line with an 80m dipole is easy to understand.
The dipole is 1/2WL. The ladder-line is ~1/2WL. The low 80m
feedpoint impedance tends to be reproduced at the shack end
thus making for an easy match.

However, 50 feet of ladder-line is ~1/4WL. The low 80m feedpoint
impedance tends to be transformed to ~4k ohms. Most built-in
autotuners will not handle such impedances.

100 feet of ladder-line is also a good length for multiband
operation of an 80m dipole as can be seen from this chart:

http://www.w5dxp.com/pnts130.gif

50 feet of ladder-line seems to be a good length for HF amateur
frequencies above 10 MHz - not so good for 80m and 40m.
--
73, Cecil, IEEE, OOTC, http://www.w5dxp.com

On Sep 29, 10:07*am, Cecil Moore wrote:
However, 50 feet of ladder-line is ~1/4WL. The low 80m feedpoint
impedance tends to be transformed to ~4k ohms. Most built-in
autotuners will not handle such impedances.

I personally think it's unlikely that even if someone is trapped by
the fancy-pants autotuner they bought, that they probably don't need
an extra fifty feet of line to deal with it. In my experience even ten
extra feet of line at 80M can noticeably change the matching taps I
use on my tuner if you're working in the 1/4 WL 65 foot feedline
range. Of course that extra ten feet might make their fancy pants
autotuner crap out on 20M, etc. and I can see how someone might start
feeling like the old lady that swallowed the fly. I would rewrite the
song to "swallowed the autotuner".

Tim N3QE

Tim Shoppa wrote:
On Sep 29, 10:07 am, Cecil Moore wrote:
However, 50 feet of ladder-line is ~1/4WL. The low 80m feedpoint
impedance tends to be transformed to ~4k ohms. Most built-in
autotuners will not handle such impedances.

I personally think it's unlikely that even if someone is trapped by
the fancy-pants autotuner they bought, that they probably don't need
an extra fifty feet of line to deal with it. In my experience even ten
extra feet of line at 80M can noticeably change the matching taps I
use on my tuner if you're working in the 1/4 WL 65 foot feedline
range. Of course that extra ten feet might make their fancy pants
autotuner crap out on 20M, etc. and I can see how someone might start
feeling like the old lady that swallowed the fly. I would rewrite the
song to "swallowed the autotuner".


Wow, you do not like autotuners, eh?

I use both regular and autotuners, and both work pretty well for me.


Neither wear pants, fancy or otherwise 8^)

- 73 d eMike N3LI -

On Sep 29, 1:59*pm, Michael Coslo wrote:
TimShoppawrote:
On Sep 29, 10:07 am, Cecil Moore wrote:
However, 50 feet of ladder-line is ~1/4WL. The low 80m feedpoint
impedance tends to be transformed to ~4k ohms. Most built-in
autotuners will not handle such impedances.

I personally think it's unlikely that even if someone is trapped by
the fancy-pants autotuner they bought, that they probably don't need
an extra fifty feet of line to deal with it. In my experience even ten
extra feet of line at 80M can noticeably change the matching taps I
use on my tuner if you're working in the 1/4 WL 65 foot feedline
range. Of course that extra ten feet might make their fancy pants
autotuner crap out on 20M, etc. and I can see how someone might start
feeling like the old lady that swallowed the fly. I would rewrite the
song to "swallowed the autotuner".

Wow, you do not like autotuners, eh?

The autotuners that the neighboring hams have do not have knobs. They
just have a little button you push and then relays chatter and it
either succeeded or failed. There's a little LED idiot light to tell
you that it succeeded or failed.

I myself do not understand how a piece of radio equipment does not
have knobs. Or how it has little blinky LED's but no meters.

My homebrew tuner has alligator tips for selecting the turns on the
output link, as well as plug-in link-coupled coil sets for each band
and of course knobs on the variable caps. IMHO if a tuner has plug in
coil sets and alligator clips then you know you're cooking with gas. I
was looking a a picture of a station in the 1972 ARRL handbook last
night and realized that my tuner looks almost identical to the one in
the picture (which itself was probably 20 years old in 1972).

Tim.
Tim.

Tim Shoppa wrote:
On Sep 29, 1:59 pm, Michael Coslo wrote:
TimShoppawrote:
On Sep 29, 10:07 am, Cecil Moore wrote:
However, 50 feet of ladder-line is ~1/4WL. The low 80m feedpoint
impedance tends to be transformed to ~4k ohms. Most built-in
autotuners will not handle such impedances.
I personally think it's unlikely that even if someone is trapped by
the fancy-pants autotuner they bought, that they probably don't need
an extra fifty feet of line to deal with it. In my experience even ten
extra feet of line at 80M can noticeably change the matching taps I
use on my tuner if you're working in the 1/4 WL 65 foot feedline
range. Of course that extra ten feet might make their fancy pants
autotuner crap out on 20M, etc. and I can see how someone might start
feeling like the old lady that swallowed the fly. I would rewrite the
song to "swallowed the autotuner".
Wow, you do not like autotuners, eh?

The autotuners that the neighboring hams have do not have knobs. They
just have a little button you push and then relays chatter and it
either succeeded or failed. There's a little LED idiot light to tell
you that it succeeded or failed.

Those are simple indeed. My autotuner has channel memories, an analog
meter and a cool little lcd meter that tells me how much inductance and
capacitance are inserted in the circuit. plus I can manually adjust
both. It's pretty cool in fact.


I myself do not understand how a piece of radio equipment does not
have knobs. Or how it has little blinky LED's but no meters.

Majik? (grinning)

My homebrew tuner has alligator tips for selecting the turns on the
output link, as well as plug-in link-coupled coil sets for each band
and of course knobs on the variable caps. IMHO if a tuner has plug in
coil sets and alligator clips then you know you're cooking with gas. I
was looking a a picture of a station in the 1972 ARRL handbook last
night and realized that my tuner looks almost identical to the one in
the picture (which itself was probably 20 years old in 1972).

I certainly don't have anything against old school radios and tuners.
Dunno if you have yours this way, but I would be inclined to mount that
alligator clipped tuner coil on a nicely finished wood base, and go
really old school pretty with it. Maybe make the coil supports out of
the same type wood turned to a dowel or maybe even polished glass or
plastic. If yer going old school, flaunt it!

Anyhow, it's all good, old or new. Gives me a lot more to mess with
since I like both.


- 73 de Mike N3LI -

On Sep 29, 3:28*pm, Michael Coslo wrote:
I certainly don't have anything against old school radios and tuners.
Dunno if you have yours this way, but I would be inclined to mount that
alligator clipped tuner coil on a nicely finished wood base, and go
really old school pretty with it. Maybe *make the coil supports out of
the same type wood turned to a dowel or maybe even polished glass or
plastic. If yer going old school, flaunt it!

Base is wood (polyurethaned pine) and coil supports are polycarbonate.

Polycarbonate is so way better than the polystyrene insulators I had
when I was a kid.

Yeah, pretty cool!

Anyhow, it's all good, old or new. Gives me a lot more to mess with
since I like both.

I am way overwhelmed with old radio stuff, would never have time to
play with the new stuff :-).

One of my neighbors (older than me but a far more recent ham than I
am) has a new LCD-screen radio and he gets all excited whenever he
finds some new software parameter he can access through twelve layers
of menu buttons on the front panel. I just kinda nod my head, I don't
want to dampen his enthusiasm, but I don't really know what he's
talking about :-).

Tim N3QE

Tim Shoppa wrote:

The autotuners that the neighboring hams have do not have knobs. They
just have a little button you push and then relays chatter and it
either succeeded or failed. There's a little LED idiot light to tell
you that it succeeded or failed.

I myself do not understand how a piece of radio equipment does not
have knobs. Or how it has little blinky LED's but no meters.

My homebrew tuner has alligator tips for selecting the turns on the
output link, as well as plug-in link-coupled coil sets for each band
and of course knobs on the variable caps. IMHO if a tuner has plug in
coil sets and alligator clips then you know you're cooking with gas. I
was looking a a picture of a station in the 1972 ARRL handbook last
night and realized that my tuner looks almost identical to the one in
the picture (which itself was probably 20 years old in 1972).

Tim.
Tim.

Boy, I sure know how you feel. Real tuners have knobs, real radios have
hot things that glow. Real airplanes are made from tubes and cloth and
have a wheel on the tail. Real cars smoke, get 10 MPG, and burn rubber.
And real women stay home, cook, and take care of the babies. It's really
tough to be stuck in 1957. I feel your pain.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL
(Charter member, OFC)

"Roy Lewallen" wrote in message
...
Tim Shoppa wrote:

The autotuners that the neighboring hams have do not have knobs. They
just have a little button you push and then relays chatter and it
either succeeded or failed. There's a little LED idiot light to tell
you that it succeeded or failed.

I myself do not understand how a piece of radio equipment does not
have knobs. Or how it has little blinky LED's but no meters.

My homebrew tuner has alligator tips for selecting the turns on the
output link, as well as plug-in link-coupled coil sets for each band
and of course knobs on the variable caps. IMHO if a tuner has plug in
coil sets and alligator clips then you know you're cooking with gas. I
was looking a a picture of a station in the 1972 ARRL handbook last
night and realized that my tuner looks almost identical to the one in
the picture (which itself was probably 20 years old in 1972).

Tim.
Tim.

Boy, I sure know how you feel. Real tuners have knobs, real radios have
hot things that glow. Real airplanes are made from tubes and cloth and
have a wheel on the tail. Real cars smoke, get 10 MPG, and burn rubber.
And real women stay home, cook, and take care of the babies. It's really
tough to be stuck in 1957. I feel your pain.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL
(Charter member, OFC)
-
LOL...me too. I'm also partial to panels that have the control labels
etched into the metal and filled with white paint
--Wayne