"Dave" napisal w wiadomosci
...
On Oct 24, 8:49 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:

...


The sharp point streams much easier than the ball,
so the chances of streaming and connected to a down
leader

No down lider. Excess of electrons is in the stormcloud and they jumps if
the difference of voltage exists. At first they jump inside cloud. Next
they
jump in the all directions outside cloud. But the all jumps are in form of
oscillations. Lightnings produce LW.


yes, there are downward leaders. these can be tracked either by their
radio noise or by radar. the size and step process has been well
known for many years.

But the upwards liders are also possible. If downward lider oscillate close
the high metal tower the electrons in the metal also oscillate and can jump
out. But that are details.


are much greater than with a ball which will

resists streaming at those same potentials.
If you had a spike next to a ball, I would think the spike
would be struck most of the time.


and you think wrong.

We need here the experimental data. Does anybody know?

yes, but not you.

But I agre with you. Nm5k wrote the above: : "I would think the spike would
be struck most of the time."


You need a good streamer going to lure a down leader.

But a ball can still stream if the potential cranks up
high enough, and the resulting strike can often be a
a stout one if it can overcome the poor streaming
of the smooth ball.

The only cause for spark jump is the voltage difference. Spikes decrease
it.

no they don't. they provide a better place for streamers to start
because the sharp point increases the voltage gradient helping it to
stream sooner.

One sharp point provide a better place for streamers to start, but the
plenty of them decrease the voltage.

The oscilations start from very short in all directions and the last
steps
are longest.

there are no oscillation in the step process. and there is no
evidence that the steps change length in any report i have seen.

But it is obvious. Each spark is in form of oscillations. No matter if the
"electrods" are steady or the distance is increasing.
It was discovered by observing the tissue punched by the spark (XIX
century).
In nowadays reports no obvious thinks.
S*

On Oct 24, 5:12*pm, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
*"Dave" napisal w ...
On Oct 24, 8:49 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:


...

The sharp point streams much easier than the ball,
so the chances of streaming and connected to a down
leader

No down lider. Excess of electrons is in the stormcloud and they jumps if
the difference of voltage exists. At first they jump inside cloud. Next
they
jump in the all directions outside cloud. But the all jumps are in form of
oscillations. Lightnings produce LW.

yes, there are downward leaders. *these can be tracked either by their

radio noise or by radar. *the size and step process has been well
known for many years.

But the upwards liders are also possible. If downward lider oscillate close
the high metal tower the electrons in the metal also oscillate and can jump
out. But that are details.

are much greater than with a ball which will

resists streaming at those same potentials.
If you had a spike next to a ball, I would think the spike
would be struck most of the time.

and you think wrong.

We need here the experimental data. Does anybody know?

yes, but not you.

But I agre with you. Nm5k wrote the above: : "I would think the spike *would
be struck most of the time."



You need a good streamer going to lure a down leader.

But a ball can still stream if the potential cranks up
high enough, and the resulting strike can often be a
a stout one if it can overcome the poor streaming
of the smooth ball.

The only cause for spark jump is the voltage difference. Spikes decrease
it.
no they don't. *they provide a better place for streamers to start

because the sharp point increases the voltage gradient helping it to
stream sooner.

One sharp point provide a better place for streamers to start, but the
plenty of them decrease the voltage.



The oscilations start from very short in all directions and the last
steps
are longest.
there are no oscillation in the step process. *and there is no

evidence that the steps change length in any report i have seen.

But it is obvious. Each spark is in form of oscillations. No matter if the
"electrods" are steady or the distance is increasing.
It was discovered by observing the tissue punched by the spark (XIX
century).
In nowadays reports no obvious thinks.
S*

it may be obvious to you, but that doesn't make it true. a spark is
not a form of oscillation. and leaders are not sparks. sparks are a
very specific phenomenon that is a very short lived breakdown over a
short distance. leaders and streamers are long term conductive
channels caused by a channel of charge accumulated in them and are
progressive breakdowns over long distances. The physics are very
different, but in neither are there oscillations. again you go back
to ancient history, it is time you updated your reading list.

"Dave" wrote
...
On Oct 24, 5:12 pm, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:

Lightnings produce LW.

yes, there are downward leaders. these can be tracked either by their
radio noise or by radar. the size and step process has been well
known for many years.

The oscilations start from very short in all directions and the last
steps
are longest.
there are no oscillation in the step process. and there is no

evidence that the steps change length in any report i have seen.

But it is obvious. Each spark is in form of oscillations. No matter if
the
"electrods" are steady or the distance is increasing.
It was discovered by observing the tissue punched by the spark (XIX
century).
In nowadays reports no obvious thinks.
S*

it may be obvious to you, but that doesn't make it true. a spark is
not a form of oscillation. and leaders are not sparks. sparks are a
very specific phenomenon that is a very short lived breakdown over a
short distance. leaders and streamers are long term conductive
channels caused by a channel of charge accumulated in them and are
progressive breakdowns over long distances. The physics are very
different, but in neither are there oscillations. again you go back
to ancient history, it is time you updated your reading list.

All breakdown are made by oscillating electrons. They work like the
pneumatic hammer. When electron oscillate (like in the Kundt's tube) at the
end the voltage is doubled and the next distance is progressed.

" Lightnings produce LW.

yes, there are downward leaders. these can be tracked either by their
radio noise or by radar. the size and step process has been well
known for many years"

In ECM such initial oscillations are detected and the power is shut down
before full breakdown.
The electrons have mass and charge - they like oscyllate. They oscillate
before the full breakdown and after to dissipate the full energy. In the
channel are better conditions to oscillations than in the conductor.
S*

On Oct 25, 11:15*am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
*"Dave" ...
On Oct 24, 5:12 pm, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:





Lightnings produce LW.

yes, there are downward leaders. these can be tracked either by their
radio noise or by radar. the size and step process has been well
known for many years.

The oscilations start from very short in all directions and the last
steps
are longest.
there are no oscillation in the step process. and there is no

evidence that the steps change length in any report i have seen.

But it is obvious. Each spark is in form of oscillations. No matter if
the
"electrods" are steady or the distance is increasing.
It was discovered by observing the tissue punched by the spark (XIX
century).
In nowadays reports no obvious thinks.
S*
it may be obvious to you, but that doesn't make it true. *a spark is

not a form of oscillation. *and leaders are not sparks. *sparks are a
very specific phenomenon that is a very short lived breakdown over a
short distance. *leaders and streamers are long term conductive
channels caused by a channel of charge accumulated in them and are
progressive breakdowns over long distances. *The physics are very
different, but in neither are there oscillations. *again you go back
to ancient history, it is time you updated your reading list.

All breakdown are made by oscillating electrons. They work like the
pneumatic hammer. When electron oscillate (like in the Kundt's tube) at the
end the voltage is doubled and the next distance is progressed.

" Lightnings produce LW.



yes, there are downward leaders. these can be tracked either by their
radio noise or by radar. the size and step process has been well
known for many years"

In ECM such initial oscillations are detected and the power is shut down
before full breakdown.
The electrons have mass and charge - they like oscyllate. They oscillate
before the full breakdown and after to dissipate the full energy. In the
channel are better conditions to oscillations than in the conductor.
S*- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

you make assertions that are simply not true. i am sorry, but there
is no use continuing this discussion as you do not understand the
basic physics and insist on quoting outdated and incorrect theories.
when you have taken some modern physics courses and are up to speed on
the state of the art today, or even yesterday, but at least better
than last century maybe we can continue, but this is a waste of time
for all now.