What is the best antenna for use with all circular, horizontal,
vertical and other polarizations without drastic fall of in gain, and
without changes in angular position and feed point via switches e.t.c
at the tower top?

Art Unwin wrote:
What is the best antenna for use with all circular, horizontal,
vertical and other polarizations without drastic fall of in gain, and
without changes in angular position and feed point via switches e.t.c
at the tower top?

Maybe the quadrifilar helix.

tom
K0TAR

On Nov 5, 10:11*pm, tom wrote:
Art Unwin wrote:
What is the best antenna for use with all circular, horizontal,
vertical and other polarizations without drastic fall of in gain, and
without changes in angular position and feed point via switches e.t.c
at the tower top?

Maybe the quadrifilar helix.

tom
K0TAR

That is made for a single circulation signal only.

Art Unwin wrote:
On Nov 5, 10:11 pm, tom wrote:
Art Unwin wrote:
What is the best antenna for use with all circular, horizontal,
vertical and other polarizations without drastic fall of in gain, and
without changes in angular position and feed point via switches e.t.c
at the tower top?
Maybe the quadrifilar helix.

tom
K0TAR

That is made for a single circulation signal only.

Then it's a point driven against ground that you need. Or a 2 point
dipole. Either one with a lossless transmission line would work.

That's the only thing that will do all you want and do both RHC and LHC
polarizations and do it at all frequencies. I have to assume you want
all frequencies since you haven't responded on that question.

And it will have a very unusable impedance at all frequencies. But if
you can do the lossless line, you are probably covered on the lossless
tuner, too.

Good luck. You want everything, and you can't have it.

And "single circulation" is not the proper terminology (as usual),
although I am somewhat sure about what you meant.

tom
K0TAR

On Nov 6, 9:10*pm, tom wrote:
Art Unwin wrote:
On Nov 5, 10:11 pm, tom wrote:
Art Unwin wrote:
What is the best antenna for use with all circular, horizontal,
vertical and other polarizations without drastic fall of in gain, and
without changes in angular position and feed point via switches e.t.c
at the tower top?
Maybe the quadrifilar helix.

tom
K0TAR

That is made for a single circulation signal only.

Then it's a point driven against ground that you need. *Or a 2 point
dipole. *Either one with a lossless transmission line would work.

That's the only thing that will do all you want and do both RHC and LHC
polarizations and do it at all frequencies. *I have to assume you want
all frequencies since you haven't responded on that question.

And it will have a very unusable impedance at all frequencies. *But if
you can do the lossless line, you are probably covered on the lossless
tuner, too.

Good luck. *You want everything, and you can't have it.

And "single circulation" is not the proper terminology (as usual),
although I am somewhat sure about what you meant.

tom
K0TAR

I wanted to know if there was such a radiator in the system that could
do such a thing and apparently there is not! I am working on one that
will do it but I wanted to be sure if I was
not reinventing the wheel.
My antenna is based on using something like a ladder line only with
the wires closer together to provide a lower impedance. If you close
both ends of such a line and wind a helix with it you can get a
radiator beam that will do all the things I suggested except the "all
frequency" part which requires further additions .
If you have two open wires in parallel and slide a cross connector up
and down the two wires the resonant frequency changes dependent on the
length where the jumper is.
Thus, if you literally make the ladder line into a true ladder by
fixing a lot of conductive cross rungs on the ladder, the applied
current will cross over at the point that the circuit is resonant.
This way the radiator will get the "all frequency" attributes.
Such a radiator becomes a much physically smaller radiator than is
being used today.
Why not try it.?... It is the proverbial free lunch!

"Art Unwin" wrote in message
...
On Nov 6, 9:10 pm, tom wrote:
Art Unwin wrote:
On Nov 5, 10:11 pm, tom wrote:
Art Unwin wrote:
What is the best antenna for use with all circular, horizontal,
vertical and other polarizations without drastic fall of in gain, and
without changes in angular position and feed point via switches e.t.c
at the tower top?
Maybe the quadrifilar helix.

tom
K0TAR

That is made for a single circulation signal only.

Then it's a point driven against ground that you need. Or a 2 point
dipole. Either one with a lossless transmission line would work.

That's the only thing that will do all you want and do both RHC and LHC
polarizations and do it at all frequencies. I have to assume you want
all frequencies since you haven't responded on that question.

And it will have a very unusable impedance at all frequencies. But if
you can do the lossless line, you are probably covered on the lossless
tuner, too.

Good luck. You want everything, and you can't have it.

And "single circulation" is not the proper terminology (as usual),
although I am somewhat sure about what you meant.

tom
K0TAR

I wanted to know if there was such a radiator in the system that could
do such a thing and apparently there is not! I am working on one that
will do it but I wanted to be sure if I was
not reinventing the wheel.
My antenna is based on using something like a ladder line only with
the wires closer together to provide a lower impedance. If you close
both ends of such a line and wind a helix with it you can get a
radiator beam that will do all the things I suggested except the "all
frequency" part which requires further additions .
If you have two open wires in parallel and slide a cross connector up
and down the two wires the resonant frequency changes dependent on the
length where the jumper is.
Thus, if you literally make the ladder line into a true ladder by
fixing a lot of conductive cross rungs on the ladder, the applied
current will cross over at the point that the circuit is resonant.
This way the radiator will get the "all frequency" attributes.
Such a radiator becomes a much physically smaller radiator than is
being used today.
Why not try it.?... It is the proverbial free lunch!


Are you saying a wave on a transmission line will continue to propagate
beyond a short-circuit across the line? If so, you've missed something
important.

Chris

On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 08:05:17 -0800 (PST), Art Unwin
wrote:

On Nov 5, 10:11*pm, tom wrote:
Art Unwin wrote:
What is the best antenna for use with all circular, horizontal,
vertical and other polarizations without drastic fall of in gain, and
without changes in angular position and feed point via switches e.t.c
at the tower top?

Maybe the quadrifilar helix.

tom
K0TAR

That is made for a single circulation signal only.

It might be done with 4 quadrifilar antennas. Each antenna has a
hemispherical pattern and one sense (left or right hand). With 4
antennas and a suitable combiner, each antenna will cover one half of
the pattern, and one of the two available senses. The quadrifilar
antenna will work with linear polarization, but at reduced gain. The
usable bandwidth is probably insufficient to cover DC to light, but
multiple quadrifilar antennas can be attached to the surface of a
ball, resulting in a sperical pattern approximation and a construction
that looks like a puffer fish. It's also possible to conglomerate the
quadrifiler into a tapered helix, thus increasing the bandwidth at the
expense of gain. For VLF, shove a ferrite rod into the middle.

You can also do random polarizations by using leaky coax, tangled into
a Gordian Knot. Some part of the knot will undoubtably be parallel to
the random polarization, and thus provide some signal pickup. Gain
will be limited by the length of the lossy coax and size of the knot.
http://www.afltele.com/products/fiber_optic_cable/coax_cable/leaky_coax/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordian_knot

Marginally related drivel:
http://www.wifi-plus.com
http://www.connectronics.com/wifi_plus/
"The world's first MULTI-POLARIZED - MULTI-PATH Antenna with
GEO-Spatial capture".


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 17:50:18 -0800 (PST), Art Unwin
wrote:

What is the best antenna for use with all circular, horizontal,
vertical and other polarizations without drastic fall of in gain, and
without changes in angular position and feed point via switches e.t.c
at the tower top?


Frequency range?

w.

On Nov 6, 4:23*am, Helmut Wabnig hwabnig@ .- --- -. dotat wrote:
On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 17:50:18 -0800 (PST), Art Unwin

wrote:
What is the best antenna for use with all circular, horizontal,
vertical and other polarizations without drastic fall of in gain, and
without changes in angular position and feed point via switches e.t.c
at the tower top?

Frequency range?

w.

10 thru 160 metres amateur bands!

On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 05:40:21 -0800 (PST), Art Unwin
wrote:

On Nov 6, 4:23*am, Helmut Wabnig hwabnig@ .- --- -. dotat wrote:
On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 17:50:18 -0800 (PST), Art Unwin

wrote:
What is the best antenna for use with all circular, horizontal,
vertical and other polarizations without drastic fall of in gain, and
without changes in angular position and feed point via switches e.t.c
at the tower top?

Frequency range?

w.

10 thru 160 metres amateur bands!


OK, here is my answer:

A SHORT PIECE OF WIRE.

greets,
w.