J pole question
 

I am thinking of making a 2 meter J-Pole from 3/4 or 5/8 copper pipe.

Most plans that I can find on the web call for a 58 inch main leg and
a 20 inch support below, making the antenna
78 inches or so in height.

I want to install it in my attic where I have 66 inches of clear
space.

Can I cut the lower support leg down to 8 inches without a major
impact on the performance of the antenna?

J pole question
 

"ai8o" wrote in message
...
I am thinking of making a 2 meter J-Pole from 3/4 or 5/8 copper pipe.

Most plans that I can find on the web call for a 58 inch main leg and
a 20 inch support below, making the antenna
78 inches or so in height.

I want to install it in my attic where I have 66 inches of clear
space.

Can I cut the lower support leg down to 8 inches without a major
impact on the performance of the antenna?

course you can, make it from 300 ohm ribbon feeder & hang it via the top, I
did that with a slim jim which may be better than a j pole, just google slim
jim for 2 m if you don' recognise it

J pole question
 

ai8o wrote in news:1bcefed7-a087-4fda-976d-
:

I am thinking of making a 2 meter J-Pole from 3/4 or 5/8 copper pipe.

Most plans that I can find on the web call for a 58 inch main leg and
a 20 inch support below, making the antenna
78 inches or so in height.

I want to install it in my attic where I have 66 inches of clear
space.

Can I cut the lower support leg down to 8 inches without a major
impact on the performance of the antenna?

End fed antennas are an implementation risk.

Have you considered a vertical dipole hung from the roof structure, and
taking the feedline away horizontally for a couple of wavelengths, then
down. You could make it a folded dipole (TV ribbon?) and use a half wave
coax balun.

Owen

J pole question
 

ai8o wrote in news:1bcefed7-a087-4fda-976d-
:

I am thinking of making a 2 meter J-Pole from 3/4 or 5/8 copper pipe.

Most plans that I can find on the web call for a 58 inch main leg and
a 20 inch support below, making the antenna
78 inches or so in height.

I want to install it in my attic where I have 66 inches of clear
space.

Can I cut the lower support leg down to 8 inches without a major
impact on the performance of the antenna?

The support leg doesn't carry substantial RF currents, so by itself it
doesn't play a big role in the antenna.

I believe that its length is intended to help keep the
current-carrying portions of the antenna (the two-arm roughly-
quarter-wavelength matching section, and the half-wavelength upper
radiator) up clear of the support mast, so that the mast and roof
structure and etc. don't de-tune the antenna. If you shorten the
support section, and bring the current-carrying parts of the antenna
down into closer proximity with the attic floor, you *may* see some
change in resonant frequency and SWR. However, the same would be true
(perhaps even more so) if the upper part of the radiating arm comes
too close to the roof.

There are several things that you can try:

[1] Try it just as you propose.

[2] Try a "Z-folded J-pole", where the support arm is vertical, the
half-meter matching section is bent horizontally, and the
half-wavelength radiator turns back up into a vertical direction.
This sort of 90-degree bend between matching section and radiator
was used on classic wire "zepp" antennas, and I've seen it used
with center-fed vertical dipoles.

[3] Try an "open sleeve" J-pole. These are a bit shorter than classic
J-poles - a bit tricker to make, though, since the two arms in the
matching section are *not* shorted together at the bottom, and one
must have an insulated mounting of some sort. Arrow makes a nice
dual-band open-sleeve J-pole, and (last time I looked) they had
complete construction plans somewhere on their site so you could
fabricated one yourself if you wish.

In any of these variations, you may need to tune the antenna
somewhat to adjust for the antenna's shape and for its proximity to
the building structure. One way to do this is to cut the pipes a bit
long, and trim to fit. Placing a copper end-cap over the pipe ends is
a way to extend them a bit if necessary. If you drill a hole in the
end cap, braze a brass nut or two onto the hole, and insert a brass
bolt, you can adjust the effective length of the arm by screwing the
bolt into or out of the nut-and-cap portion.

"Fat" J-poles (with larger-diameter pipe) are relatively broad-band,
so you ought to be able to tune one down to an effectively-low SWR
across the 2-meter band.

[4] Build a J-pole out of 450-ohm ladder line, rather than copper
pipe - suspend it beneath the attic's upper support beam using
6" of nylon fishing line, and tension the bottom down vertically
using more fishing line. No need for a lower support arm at
all... just short the bottom two sides of the ladder line together
with a couple of inches of copper wire.

J-poles can be built in very non-traditional ways, and made to work
effectively, although the dimensions may be rather different than the
traditional plans would indicate. I made one several years ago by
taking a bicycle flag (about 5' of thin fiberglass rod with a flag on
top) and fastening ordinary hookup wire to it with black electrical
tape. It took me a while (and a lot of cutting-and-trying) to figure
out the right lengths for the two arms, and the correct attachment
point for the RG-58 coax feed near the bottom, but I eventually got it
down to an SWR of around 1.2 across the repeater portion of the
2-meter band. Fastened to the back of my recumbent bicycle, it gives
much better coverage than a rubber duck when I'm riding bicycle-mobile.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

J pole question
 

On Mar 16, 5:57*pm, ai8o wrote:
I am thinking of making a 2 meter J-Pole from 3/4 or 5/8 copper pipe.

Most plans that I can find on the web call for a 58 inch main leg and
a 20 inch support below, making the antenna
78 inches or so in height.

I want to install it in my attic where I have 66 inches of clear
space.

Can I cut the lower support leg down to 8 inches without a major
impact on the performance of the antenna?

Sure leave it off altogether and hang it with fishing line.

Jimmie

J pole question
 

In message , Owen Duffy
writes
ai8o wrote in news:1bcefed7-a087-4fda-976d-
:

I am thinking of making a 2 meter J-Pole from 3/4 or 5/8 copper pipe.

Most plans that I can find on the web call for a 58 inch main leg and
a 20 inch support below, making the antenna
78 inches or so in height.

I want to install it in my attic where I have 66 inches of clear
space.

Can I cut the lower support leg down to 8 inches without a major
impact on the performance of the antenna?

End fed antennas are an implementation risk.

What's an 'implementation risk'?

Have you considered a vertical dipole hung from the roof structure, and
taking the feedline away horizontally for a couple of wavelengths, then
down. You could make it a folded dipole (TV ribbon?) and use a half wave
coax balun.

Are you suggesting that a centre-fed dipole is better than a J-Pole?
There is absolutely no problem with the J-Pole / Slim Jim type of
antenna, or with feeding it.
--
Ian

J pole question
 

On 3/16/2010 5:57 PM, ai8o wrote:
I am thinking of making a 2 meter J-Pole from 3/4 or 5/8 copper pipe.

Most plans that I can find on the web call for a 58 inch main leg and
a 20 inch support below, making the antenna
78 inches or so in height.

I want to install it in my attic where I have 66 inches of clear
space.

Can I cut the lower support leg down to 8 inches without a major
impact on the performance of the antenna?

The support leg is just that a leg. You can make it any length that
works for you.

John W3JXP

J pole question
 

On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 08:22:52 +0000, Ian Jackson
wrote:

End fed antennas are an implementation risk.

What's an 'implementation risk'?

Having it come out mismatched, a very much higher probability.

Have you considered a vertical dipole hung from the roof structure, and
taking the feedline away horizontally for a couple of wavelengths, then
down. You could make it a folded dipole (TV ribbon?) and use a half wave
coax balun.

Are you suggesting that a centre-fed dipole is better than a J-Pole?

A center fed dipole is simpler to tune and keep tuned.

There is absolutely no problem with the J-Pole / Slim Jim type of
antenna, or with feeding it.

The majority of users who come here for solutions to theirs would
suggest otherwise.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

J pole question
 

John Passaneau wrote:

The support leg is just that a leg. You can make it any length that
works for you.

John W3JXP

A J pole, or ground plane for that matter, couples into the support
structure and outside of the feedline, making those conductors part of
the radiating system. This alters the radiation pattern and can result
in further coupling to anything near the support structure or feedline.
The amount of coupling can be anything from insignificantly small to
very large -- with the support and/or feedline radiating more than the
"antenna" --, depending on the length and orientation of the entire
conductive path to Earth ground.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

J pole question
 

Ian Jackson wrote in
:

In message , Owen Duffy
writes
....
End fed antennas are an implementation risk.

What's an 'implementation risk'?


We will see if the OP, like so many who implement J poles in the roof
space, becomes aware of problems and comes back for advice on how to
solve them.

The commonest problem is that VSWR doesn't meet expectations, but that it
is the most mentioned problem speaks more of the visibility of VSWR that
that it is the greatest problem with the J Pole.

Like many if not most end fed antennas, the J Pole does little to deal
with the common mode current that must flow on the feed system / support
structure. Explanations of how they work usually deny the issue.

But for all their faults, they spray RF around, and people would foolish
to deny that they 'work' to some extent.

When you look at the strengths and weaknesses of a J Pole, they are not a
good choice IMHO for in-roof-space deployment.

Owen