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basketball_jones May 5th 04 10:26 PM
(Fractenna) wrote in message ...
BTW You have NOT answered one question I asked so far. It would be
helpful if you either answered the questions or stopped wasting my
time. You, my friend are the one that's playing games.


Please Kevin,

Don't be so righteous. I told you what to do on a private e-mail, way before
you sent this. If you couldn't get pricing from the reps--REAL pricing--then I
would provide it.

I, too, have priced out boards for microwave apps, and I certainly didn't need
to go around the reps.

We need to keep a viable substrate industry continuing in this country, and
anything that could be construed as undermining them is not in my vocabulary.
They've bled way too much already.

73,
Chip N1IR

I am sorry, I don't remember getting an email from you, would you
kindly re-send. Thanks. Could you kindly put 'PCB costs' or
something along those lines in the header because (as you can tell)
this is my spam email account.

I have gotten pricing from the reps (before I started this thread),
but until you are ready to sign on the dotted line and sign up to the
volume the pricing is not accurate (budgetary pricing), so once again,
so far I know the MOST I am going to pay.

I am in NO WAY trying to undermine the substrate industry, on the
contrary, I am just trying to figure out that happy point at which
BOTH they and I make money. If you look at my above posts I fully
expect and want them to make a profit, but not too much profit (BTW
there is no such thing as 'too much profit', I, like them, am trying
to maximize mine). Remember, I am asking for the lowest price at
which they ARE willing to do business. Once again, I CAN'T get that
price until I am ready to sign and I can't be ready to sign until I
get that price.

K.

Fractenna May 6th 04 01:53 AM
Once again, I CAN'T get that
price until I am ready to sign and I can't be ready to sign until I
get that price.

K.

Well, I did my duty.

Nope; I won't resend the e-mail. It was labelled ' PCB' costs so it
shouldn't have been counted as spam. I tried to help. That's enough.

If you start getting spam with PCB titles, you really do have some problems I
can't assist with.

Best of luck.

74,
Chip N1IR

basketball_jones May 6th 04 07:50 AM
(Fractenna) wrote in message ...
Once again, I CAN'T get that
price until I am ready to sign and I can't be ready to sign until I
get that price.

K.

Well, I did my duty.

Nope; I won't resend the e-mail. It was labelled ' PCB' costs so it
shouldn't have been counted as spam. I tried to help. That's enough.

If you start getting spam with PCB titles, you really do have some problems I
can't assist with.

Best of luck.

74,
Chip N1IR

Best of luck to you. Both you and I know that you have NOT sent that
email in the first place.

Dave Shrader May 6th 04 02:59 PM
basketball_jones wrote:

SNIP

Once again, I CAN'T get that
price until I am ready to sign and I can't be ready to sign until I
get that price.

K.

Isn't that the definition of Catch-22??

Seriously, you need a sit down negotiation session with your potential
suppliers, AND HAVE YOUR PURCHASING AGENT/LAWYER PRESENT. Part of your
strategy is to let your potential suppliers know right up front that it
is a competitive procurement based on either lowest price or best value
[whatever your criteria may be][The stated criteria is common to and
binding on all potential suppliers [you can't change the rules without
inviting a rebid from all suppliers]]. In my experience, once we moved
from the technical issues I yielded all related business risk issues to
the Purchasing Agent or Lawyers. Engineering should NEVER sign a
purchasing contract. The US DOD and my company used legal professionals
to definitize the purchasing agreements/contracts.

Review your potential supplier's quality programs, manufacturing
capacity, inventory levels, their supplier vulnerabilities, [you don't
want your long term sales jeopardized by a sub-supplier's strike etc.,],
cash flow requirements [do you make a partial payment up front or is it
post delivery billing], backlog [you don't want your schedules held
hostage by a supplier's backlog issues]; these are business issues that
exceed 'lowest price' criteria.

Negotiation is more a part of business than creative design. In many MBA
programs there are courses in negotiation. Remember, your supplier NEEDs
business; and, wants to MAXIMIZE their profit also.

Deacon Dave, W1MCE

Fractenna May 6th 04 04:04 PM
Best of luck to you. Both you and I know that you have NOT sent that
email in the first place.



That is a false statement.

Kevin, acting this way is no way to win friends in this industry.

Cordially,

Chip N1IR

basketball_jones May 6th 04 06:22 PM
(basketball_jones) wrote in message . com...
 (Fractenna) wrote in message ...
Once again, I CAN'T get that
price until I am ready to sign and I can't be ready to sign until I
get that price.

K.

Well, I did my duty.

Nope; I won't resend the e-mail. It was labelled ' PCB' costs so it
shouldn't have been counted as spam. I tried to help. That's enough.

If you start getting spam with PCB titles, you really do have some problems I
can't assist with.

Best of luck.

74,
Chip N1IR

Best of luck to you. Both you and I know that you have NOT sent that
email in the first place.

ps Mr. Fractenna, your motives are transparent and the games you are
playing are obvious to everybody. From your initial post it was clear
that you were going to be less than helpful. Now, I am asking you for
the SECOND time, please GET OUT OF THE WAY. That means kindly refrain
from further postings in this thread. Thank you.

In case for some reason you choose to continue this ****ing contest
via email, wasting my time, I reserve the right to post your emails on
this board.

Best of luck.

Fractenna May 6th 04 11:54 PM
ps Mr. Fractenna, your motives are transparent ...


Gee, I sure hope so!

Transparency has been a driving factor for me for the last several years. I
know that may be a bad pun to some:-)

Anyway, good luck Kevin.

73,
Chip N1IR

Richard Clark May 7th 04 01:10 AM
On 6 May 2004 10:22:49 -0700,
(basketball_jones) wrote:
the games you are playing are obvious to everybody.
From your initial post it was clear that you were going
to be less than helpful.

Some things never change....


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