Anyone have a 6BTV without radials?
 

Hustler says the 6BTV will work OK without radials as long as the
ground is not dry. The salesman said so also. So I bought it.

I was delayed in installing it because of a nesting Red Shouldered
Hawk that I refuse to disturb.

Meanwhile, I am reading articles online that indicate that the 6BTV
might work very poorly without radials even with a low VSWR.

I will have a nasty time installing radials where I want to put it.

Anyone have any experience in that regard?

Thanks, Ron
W1WBV

For 1/4 wave verticals like the Hustler, I have had very poor results when
ground mounted -- with or without radials.
Placing the vertical on the roof or otherwise elavated -- got much better
results with just 3 or 4 radials.

Suggest your read Butternuts blurb on ground radial systems. URL:
http://www.bencher.com/pdfs/00361ZZV.pdf

Good luck
--
deje a lector guardarse

Amateur Radio is the best back-up
communications system in the world,
and that's the way it is. Walter Cronkite





"Ron" wrote in message
...
Hustler says the 6BTV will work OK without radials as long as the
ground is not dry. The salesman said so also. So I bought it.

I was delayed in installing it because of a nesting Red Shouldered
Hawk that I refuse to disturb.

Meanwhile, I am reading articles online that indicate that the 6BTV
might work very poorly without radials even with a low VSWR.

I will have a nasty time installing radials where I want to put it.

Anyone have any experience in that regard?

Thanks, Ron
W1WBV

Ron wrote:

Hustler says the 6BTV will work OK without radials as long as the
ground is not dry. The salesman said so also. So I bought it.

You were oversold! It really needs a radial system for decent
operation. It will work ... but ...


I was delayed in installing it because of a nesting Red Shouldered
Hawk that I refuse to disturb.

Meanwhile, I am reading articles online that indicate that the 6BTV
might work very poorly without radials even with a low VSWR.

I will have a nasty time installing radials where I want to put it.

Can you return it as not suitable for your use. Indicate it was oversold.


Anyone have any experience in that regard?

Thanks, Ron
W1WBV

I agree with the other posters. I had one that worked fairly well
ground mounted, but only with radials for the bands I was using. No
radials for that band meant no performance on that band.

tom
K0TAR

Ron wrote:

Hustler says the 6BTV will work OK without radials as long as the
ground is not dry. The salesman said so also. So I bought it.

I was delayed in installing it because of a nesting Red Shouldered
Hawk that I refuse to disturb.

Meanwhile, I am reading articles online that indicate that the 6BTV
might work very poorly without radials even with a low VSWR.

I will have a nasty time installing radials where I want to put it.

Anyone have any experience in that regard?

Thanks, Ron
W1WBV

Radials will improve the efficiency the more you have the better the
improvement to a certain point of about 120 radials. After that not worth
the effort.

"Jim Higgins" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:09:29 -0400, in
, Ron
wrote:

Hustler says the 6BTV will work OK without radials as long as the
ground is not dry. The salesman said so also. So I bought it.

I was delayed in installing it because of a nesting Red Shouldered
Hawk that I refuse to disturb.

Meanwhile, I am reading articles online that indicate that the 6BTV
might work very poorly without radials even with a low VSWR.

I will have a nasty time installing radials where I want to put it.

Anyone have any experience in that regard?

I've had a 5BTV, ground mounted, various types of soil, for over
25 years. On the principle that "anything works," it does "work"
without radials, but not very well, and especially in dry or
sandy soil. The addition of as few as four radials makes a
significant improvement. My radials are buried 2 - 3 inches.

--
Jim Higgins, KB3PU

Help for prospective and new hams, see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HAM-ELMER
Elmers also welcome

"Dave Shrader" wrote in message
news:Iihkc.957$NI6.193027@attbi_s01...
Ron wrote:

Hustler says the 6BTV will work OK without radials as long as the
ground is not dry. The salesman said so also. So I bought it.

You were oversold! It really needs a radial system for decent
operation. It will work ... but ...

I agree ... I have a 5BTV and it worked well with radials (I only had 2
each, temporary, cut to 1/4 wave at each band, but I pulled them up when I
ran the coax in an underground PVC conduit, rather than just laying on the
ground and haven't put radials back yet - and it doesn't work worth a damn.)

I intend to mow the grass VERY short and place a significant (64 or so
radials of 1/4 wave at 40m) in place with wire "staples" made from coat
hanger wire, and then let the grass grow over them (the "staples will keep
the radials down until the grass grows over them, eliminating the problem of
the mower snagging them).

From my experience, ground mount works well - as long as you have a radial
system (more is better, but even a pair per band helps a LOT).

73,
Carl - wk3c

On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:09:29 -0400, Ron wrote:

Thanks to everyone who responded to my post. It looks like the general
consensus is to add radials if I want it to work. I suspected that all
along but I got talked into it. Dipoles have always worked great for
me.

So, now I'm toying with the idea of mounting it on the roof. The back
half of the roof has only a 3" pitch, so it's easy to work on. There
are lots of trees around to tie the radials to.

I think I will do some experimentation with adding traps in the radial
lines. Maybe I can make 6 band radials. Would that work?

I have some time to think about it. The Red Shouldered Hawk's
incubation lasts about 33 days and the young fledge in 39-45 days.
She's been in the nest for about 14 days so it could be July! Then it
might be too damn hot to work on the roof.

Of course, I consider her to be a guest of honor, things like that are
major events for some of us :-)

Could be my tiny bit of North American aboriginal blood. My spirit
bird is the Peregrine and my spirit name is "Whole in the Night Sky"
(Micmac).

73's

Ron, W1WBV ~|:-)

"Ron" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:09:29 -0400, Ron wrote:

Thanks to everyone who responded to my post. It looks like the general
consensus is to add radials if I want it to work. I suspected that all
along but I got talked into it. Dipoles have always worked great for
me.

So, now I'm toying with the idea of mounting it on the roof. The back
half of the roof has only a 3" pitch, so it's easy to work on. There
are lots of trees around to tie the radials to.

I think I will do some experimentation with adding traps in the radial
lines. Maybe I can make 6 band radials. Would that work?

It's not strictly necessary that the radials be resonant on all bands to
improve your situation ... I would bet that if you cut the radials to 33'
you'll find a noticable improvement. As I said, I had only 2 per band (on
the ground) and it worked much better than without any radials. More is
better, of course, but in an aerial situation you'll be limited and I'd
recommend you try four 33' radials and see how that works.

The idea is to provide an "image plane" for the monopole to "work against"
and reduce ground losses ...

73,
Carl - wk3c

On Sat, 1 May 2004 11:20:11 -0000, "Carl R. Stevenson"
wrote:

Thanks Carl.

I will try that first. 33' should work OK for 40, which is the band I
want most.

Right now the only HF antenna I have working is a 15m dipole. And, 15
has been very quiet here lately.

One of the posters suggested I read Butternut's blurb on radials:
http://www.bencher.com/pdfs/00361ZZV.pdf
I read it last night. It shows a tuned radial using twin lead. It has
a total length of 32' 8". That may be something to try also.

Thanks again . . . 73 . . ., Ron Crowley, W1WBV

It's not strictly necessary that the radials be resonant on all bands to
improve your situation ... I would bet that if you cut the radials to 33'
you'll find a noticable improvement. As I said, I had only 2 per band (on
the ground) and it worked much better than without any radials. More is
better, of course, but in an aerial situation you'll be limited and I'd
recommend you try four 33' radials and see how that works.

The idea is to provide an "image plane" for the monopole to "work against"
and reduce ground losses ...

73,
Carl - wk3c

There are two related issues here. One, getting an adequate match between the
antenna and the feedline. Two, having an adequate ground plane to achieve the
desired radiation pattern. The fact that an antenna is matched, does not of
itself mean it will radiate well.