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"Boomer" napisal w wiadomosci ... BTW Szczepan, I have a loop antenna for low band. The electrons go around in a circle and I recycle them. This saves a huge amount on my electric bill. "I prefer to feed them directly with coax at a corner and situated in a diamond configuration when hung verticle but, you can feed them in the center of either side. "A little known fact is that you can add a half wavelength of wire behind the loop instead of the closed loop. This comes in handy where supports are not abundant." From: http://ku4ay.net/loop.html The electrons oscillate in the loop and collide in the nodes. In that places the voltage is doubled and the electrons jump off. Somebody wrote here that the current radiate. In all AC circuits the same current if flowing in the live conductor and in the ground (return). Can 0V radiate? S* |
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Szczepan Bialek wrote:
Somebody wrote here that the current radiate. In all AC circuits the same current if flowing in the live conductor and in the ground (return). Can 0V radiate? That is why it only radiates when the currents do not flow in the opposite direction! So, a balanced feeder line with two parallel wires carrying the HF current (in opposite directions) does not radiate. But in a dipole antenna, the currents in the two wires do flow in the same direction. So a dipole radiates. |
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On Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:30:02 AM UTC-5, Rob wrote:
But in a dipole antenna, the currents in the two wires do flow in the same direction. So a dipole radiates. Sorry, there are two currents, forward and reflected, flowing in opposite directions on a standing wave antenna. A 1/2WL dipole is a standing wave antenna where the SWR at the ends is infinite and the SWR at the feedpoint is ~20:1. There is forward and reflected wave energy flow on each element of the dipole. At the ends of the 1/2WL dipole the forward and reflected currents are 180 degrees out of phase and equal in magnitude so they phasor add to zero, i.e. a standing wave current minimum (null). Since the forward and reflected current phasors rotate in opposite directions, they are in phase at the feedpoint and phasor add (constructively interfere) to a standing wave current maximum (loop) and most of the radiation is from the center of the antenna. The feedpoint impedance of a dipole is Zfp = (Vfor+Vref)/(Ifor+Iref) phasor math. -- 73, Cecil, w5dxp.com |
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Szczepan Bialek wrote:
"Boomer" napisal w wiadomosci ... BTW Szczepan, I have a loop antenna for low band. The electrons go around in a circle and I recycle them. This saves a huge amount on my electric bill. "I prefer to feed them directly with coax at a corner and situated in a diamond configuration when hung verticle but, you can feed them in the center of either side. "A little known fact is that you can add a half wavelength of wire behind the loop instead of the closed loop. This comes in handy where supports are not abundant." From: http://ku4ay.net/loop.html The electrons oscillate in the loop and collide in the nodes. Electrons don't collide; you are a babbling idiot. In that places the voltage is doubled and the electrons jump off. Electrons don't jump off; you are a babbling idiot. Somebody wrote here that the current radiate. Nobody here wrote that; you are a babbling idiot. In all AC circuits the same current if flowing in the live conductor and in the ground (return). Utter, meaningless, babble. Can 0V radiate? Voltages don't radiate; you are a babbling idiot. How many antennas have you built in your lifetime? Why do you refuse to answer the question? Is it because you have built zero antennas and you are trying to say all the people that have successfully built hundreds that they are all wrong and you don't want to admit you are an ignorant, inducable, idiot? |
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On 7/11/2012 3:18 PM, Ian wrote:
"Boomer" wrote in message ... Ian, I am pretty advanced in years. I am 69. I can remember a comedian whose name escapes me. He got paid good money for coming on stage and talking just like Szczepan. I think it would be a gas for him to address a large gathering of amateur radio operators. He could have us all in stitches in a few seconds. I get a fair amount of entertainment value just reading his posts. Some of them are laugh out loud moments for me. I don't know whether his is truly that ignorant or is just having fun with us. It doesn't matter. He is funny. BTW Szczepan, I have a loop antenna for low band. The electrons go around in a circle and I recycle them. This saves a huge amount on my electric bill. Michael Michael Hello Michael. From where I am sitting, 69 isn't all that old. I have friends heading for 90 who are definitely not showing their age. Was the comedian a Brit named Stanley Unwin or an American named Fred ??? 73, Ian. I just can't remember Ian. Michael |
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Boomer wrote:
On 7/11/2012 3:18 PM, Ian wrote: "Boomer" wrote in message ... Ian, I am pretty advanced in years. I am 69. I can remember a comedian whose name escapes me. He got paid good money for coming on stage and talking just like Szczepan. I think it would be a gas for him to address a large gathering of amateur radio operators. He could have us all in stitches in a few seconds. [snip] Michael Hello Michael. From where I am sitting, 69 isn't all that old. I have friends heading for 90 who are definitely not showing their age. Was the comedian a Brit named Stanley Unwin or an American named Fred ??? 73, Ian. I just can't remember Ian. Michael Pretty sure you are talking about Professor Irwin Corey "The World's Foremost Authority". http://www.irwincorey.org He's 95 and still working - I'd hurry if you want him... Brett |
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In article ,
says... Was the comedian a Brit named Stanley Unwin or an American named Fred ??? 73, Ian. I just can't remember Ian. Michael Stanley Unwin's your man. Before he became a comedian, he was a BBC transmitter engineer, so he was one of us... http://www.stanleyunwin.com/home2.htm By us, of course, I don't include Szczepan. My feeing is that he's either : 1 Far gone with senile dementia OR 2 An academic troll who's been winding up Usenet groups for years I think (2) is more likely - dementia is progressive, and I'd expect Szczepan's ramblings to get gradually more and more incoherent. Instead there is a strangely consistent quality to them. Anyway, I killfiled him years ago. |
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In message , Gaius
writes In article , says... Was the comedian a Brit named Stanley Unwin or an American named Fred ??? 73, Ian. I just can't remember Ian. Michael Stanley Unwin's your man. Before he became a comedian, he was a BBC transmitter engineer, so he was one of us... http://www.stanleyunwin.com/home2.htm By us, of course, I don't include Szczepan. My feeing is that he's either : 1 Far gone with senile dementia OR 2 An academic troll who's been winding up Usenet groups for years I think (2) is more likely - dementia is progressive, and I'd expect Szczepan's ramblings to get gradually more and more incoherent. Instead there is a strangely consistent quality to them. So you don't reckon he could also be a computer, programmed to carry out the Turing Test? Anyway, I killfiled him years ago. Where's the fun in that? In this sad world, we often need a bit of light-hearted relief and amusement. -- ian |
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Gaius wrote:
In article , says... Was the comedian a Brit named Stanley Unwin or an American named Fred ??? 73, Ian. I just can't remember Ian. Michael Stanley Unwin's your man. Before he became a comedian, he was a BBC transmitter engineer, so he was one of us... http://www.stanleyunwin.com/home2.htm By us, of course, I don't include Szczepan. My feeing is that he's either : 1 Far gone with senile dementia OR 2 An academic troll who's been winding up Usenet groups for years I think (2) is more likely - dementia is progressive, and I'd expect Szczepan's ramblings to get gradually more and more incoherent. Instead there is a strangely consistent quality to them. Anyway, I killfiled him years ago. Possiblility 3; he's not very bright and he's bat **** crazy. |
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"Ian Jackson" napisal w wiadomosci ... In message , Gaius writes Anyway, I killfiled him years ago. Where's the fun in that? In this sad world, we often need a bit of light-hearted relief and amusement. I am here to learn. To learn English. I do my best. But I do not understand why in your antennas no electrons. S* |
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Szczepan Bialek wrote:
"Ian Jackson" napisal w wiadomosci ... In message , Gaius writes Anyway, I killfiled him years ago. Where's the fun in that? In this sad world, we often need a bit of light-hearted relief and amusement. I am here to learn. To learn English. Learn this English; you are a stupid, ignorant, argumentative, babbling, ineducable idiot. If you really want to learn English, read newspapers, magazines, and watch TV and movies in English. I do my best. I would hate to see what your less than best is. But I do not understand why in your antennas no electrons. That is because you are a stupid, ignorant, argumentative, babbling, ineducable idiot than instead of listening and learning argues with people with hundreds of years of combined experience. You also refuse to read, and reread until you really understand it, any modern material on electromagnetics, whether from Wiki or University level textbooks, in ANY language. You are a joke and a laughingstock. |
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napisał w wiadomości ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: But I do not understand why in your antennas no electrons. That is because you are a stupid, ignorant, argumentative, babbling, ineducable idiot than instead of listening and learning argues with people with hundreds of years of combined experience. You also refuse to read, and reread until you really understand it, any modern material on electromagnetics, In electromagnetics also no electrons. Why? S* |
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wrote in message
... Gaius wrote: By us, of course, I don't include Szczepan. My feeing is that he's either : 1 Far gone with senile dementia OR 2 An academic troll who's been winding up Usenet groups for years I think (2) is more likely - dementia is progressive, and I'd expect Szczepan's ramblings to get gradually more and more incoherent. Instead there is a strangely consistent quality to them. Anyway, I killfiled him years ago. Possiblility 3; he's not very bright and he's bat **** crazy. Hello chaps. Regardless of the reason for his postings, Szczepan is good for a laugh (and I don't mean that in a nasty way) and the occasional good discussion amongst those of us who care to think about radio and electronics. Anyone else notice that his command of English varies from posting to posting? 73, Ian. |
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Szczepan Bialek wrote:
napisa? w wiadomo?ci ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: But I do not understand why in your antennas no electrons. That is because you are a stupid, ignorant, argumentative, babbling, ineducable idiot than instead of listening and learning argues with people with hundreds of years of combined experience. You also refuse to read, and reread until you really understand it, any modern material on electromagnetics, In electromagnetics also no electrons. Why? S* If your were to read, and reread until you really understand it, any modern material on electromagnetics, you would then know what role electons play in electromagnetics and electromagnetic fields. Yes, electrons are involved in electromagnetic fields, but no, electrons do NOT jump off antenna elements. Why are you incapable of getting a University level textbook, in any language, on electromagnetics and reading it? |
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Ian wrote:
wrote in message ... Gaius wrote: By us, of course, I don't include Szczepan. My feeing is that he's either : 1 Far gone with senile dementia OR 2 An academic troll who's been winding up Usenet groups for years I think (2) is more likely - dementia is progressive, and I'd expect Szczepan's ramblings to get gradually more and more incoherent. Instead there is a strangely consistent quality to them. Anyway, I killfiled him years ago. Possiblility 3; he's not very bright and he's bat **** crazy. Hello chaps. Regardless of the reason for his postings, Szczepan is good for a laugh (and I don't mean that in a nasty way) and the occasional good discussion amongst those of us who care to think about radio and electronics. Anyone else notice that his command of English varies from posting to posting? 73, Ian. Looking at his posts from years ago, I don't see a lot of difference. It appears his ability to learn English is just as bad as his ability to learn anything else. He is ineducable. |
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On 7/13/2012 12:14 AM, Brett Crapser wrote:
Boomer wrote: On 7/11/2012 3:18 PM, Ian wrote: "Boomer" wrote in message ... Ian, I am pretty advanced in years. I am 69. I can remember a comedian whose name escapes me. He got paid good money for coming on stage and talking just like Szczepan. I think it would be a gas for him to address a large gathering of amateur radio operators. He could have us all in stitches in a few seconds. [snip] Michael Hello Michael. From where I am sitting, 69 isn't all that old. I have friends heading for 90 who are definitely not showing their age. Was the comedian a Brit named Stanley Unwin or an American named Fred ??? 73, Ian. I just can't remember Ian. Michael Pretty sure you are talking about Professor Irwin Corey "The World's Foremost Authority". http://www.irwincorey.org He's 95 and still working - I'd hurry if you want him... Brett Yes Brett, it came back to me. It is so good to know he was an engineer. YES professor Irwin Corey. Szczepan needs to polish up his act a little to match the professor. He is just not quite there. I suspect he never will be. However, he is still funny, just not as funny as the professor. God, 95 and still working, bless his heart. Michael |
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"Boomer" wrote in message
... On 7/13/2012 12:14 AM, Brett Crapser wrote: Boomer wrote: On 7/11/2012 3:18 PM, Ian wrote: "Boomer" wrote in message ... Ian, I am pretty advanced in years. I am 69. I can remember a comedian whose name escapes me. He got paid good money for coming on stage and talking just like Szczepan. I think it would be a gas for him to address a large gathering of amateur radio operators. He could have us all in stitches in a few seconds. [snip] Michael Hello Michael. From where I am sitting, 69 isn't all that old. I have friends heading for 90 who are definitely not showing their age. Was the comedian a Brit named Stanley Unwin or an American named Fred ??? 73, Ian. I just can't remember Ian. Michael Pretty sure you are talking about Professor Irwin Corey "The World's Foremost Authority". http://www.irwincorey.org He's 95 and still working - I'd hurry if you want him... Brett Yes Brett, it came back to me. It is so good to know he was an engineer. YES professor Irwin Corey. Szczepan needs to polish up his act a little to match the professor. He is just not quite there. I suspect he never will be. However, he is still funny, just not as funny as the professor. God, 95 and still working, bless his heart. Michael Hello chaps. Michael - thank you for the link to Irwin Corey. I've not heard of him at all so I will spend some time watching the videos on his web site. Best wishes to all for a good weekend. If you're coming to the UK for the Olympics then I suggest some decent waterproof clothing. 73 Ian. |
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napisał w wiadomości ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: napisa? w wiadomo?ci ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: But I do not understand why in your antennas no electrons. That is because you are a stupid, ignorant, argumentative, babbling, ineducable idiot than instead of listening and learning argues with people with hundreds of years of combined experience. You also refuse to read, and reread until you really understand it, any modern material on electromagnetics, In electromagnetics also no electrons. Why? S* If your were to read, and reread until you really understand it, any modern material on electromagnetics, you would then know what role electons play in electromagnetics and electromagnetic fields. Yes, electrons are involved in electromagnetic fields, but no, electrons do NOT jump off antenna elements. Why are you incapable of getting a University level textbook, in any language, on electromagnetics and reading it? " modern material on electromagnetics," is wrote by Heaviside" "I remember my first look at the great treatise of Maxwell's when I was a young man... I saw that it was great, greater and greatest, with prodigious possibilities in its power... I was determined to master the book and set to work. I was very ignorant. I had no knowledge of mathematical analysis (having learned only school algebra and trigonometry which I had largely forgotten) and thus my work was laid out for me. It took me several years before I could understand as much as I possibly could. Then I set Maxwell aside and followed my own course. And I progressed much more quickly... It will be understood that I preach the gospel according to my interpretation of Maxwell.[4] From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Heaviside His "own course" is without the "electric particles". In Maxwell model were such. What "role electons play" in antennas (not in fields)? S* |
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On Saturday, July 14, 2012 2:38:16 AM UTC-5, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
What "role electons play" in antennas (not in fields)? You should forgive Maxwell's ignorance and join us in the 21st century. Free electrons act as a "bucket brigade" for the coherent photons which make up the quantized fields/waves surrounding the antenna conductor. If Maxwell were alive today, he would have rewritten his works to correct his ignorant mistakes. Would you still be studying his obsolete works or his new corrected works? -- 73, Cecil, w5dxp.com |
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"W5DXP" napisal w wiadomosci ... On Saturday, July 14, 2012 2:38:16 AM UTC-5, Szczepan Bialek wrote: What "role electons play" in antennas (not in fields)? You should forgive Maxwell's ignorance and join us in the 21st century. Free electrons act as a "bucket brigade" for the coherent photons which make up the quantized fields/waves surrounding the antenna conductor. If Maxwell were alive today, he would have rewritten his works to correct his ignorant mistakes. Would you still be studying his obsolete works or his new corrected works? I do not studying Maxwell, Heaviside's and his new corrected works. Jimp do it and recommend it to me. I am in the 21st century. It is the plazma time. S* |
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Szczepan Bialek wrote:
" modern material on electromagnetics," is wrote by Heaviside" Modern material on electromagnetics was written LONG after Heaviside died, you babbling, ineducable idiot. snip 100 year old quote His "own course" is without the "electric particles". In Maxwell model were such. What "role electons play" in antennas (not in fields)? The analysis of antennas is about the analysis of fields, you babbbling, ineducable idiot. If your were to read, and reread until you really understand it, any MODERN material on electromagnetics, you would then know what role electons play in electromagnetics and electromagnetic fields. Yes, electrons are involved in electromagnetic fields, but no, electrons do NOT jump off antenna elements. Why are you incapable of getting a University level textbook, in any language, on electromagnetics and reading it? |
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Szczepan Bialek wrote:
"W5DXP" napisal w wiadomosci ... On Saturday, July 14, 2012 2:38:16 AM UTC-5, Szczepan Bialek wrote: What "role electons play" in antennas (not in fields)? You should forgive Maxwell's ignorance and join us in the 21st century. Free electrons act as a "bucket brigade" for the coherent photons which make up the quantized fields/waves surrounding the antenna conductor. If Maxwell were alive today, he would have rewritten his works to correct his ignorant mistakes. Would you still be studying his obsolete works or his new corrected works? I do not studying Maxwell, Heaviside's and his new corrected works. Jimp do it and recommend it to me. You babbling, ignorant, stupid, ineducable, idiot, I reccommended you read MODERN texts, that is texts written LONG after Heaviside died. I am in the 21st century. It is the plazma time. You are in the 19th century and "plazma" is not a word. Why are you incapable of getting a current University level textbook, in any language, on electromagnetics and reading it? |
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napisał w wiadomości ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: I do not studying Maxwell, Heaviside's and his new corrected works. Jimp do it and recommend it to me. You babbling, ignorant, stupid, ineducable, idiot, I reccommended you read MODERN texts, that is texts written LONG after Heaviside died. MODERN texts use the Biot-Savart law. "1825 - Ampere publishes his collected results on magnetism. His expression for the magnetic field produced by a small segment of current is different from that which follows naturally from the Biot-Savart law by an additive term which integrates to zero around closed circuit. It is unfortunate that electrodynamics and relativity decide in favor of Biot and Savart rather than for the much more sophisticated Ampere, whose memoir contains both mathematical analysis and experimentation, artfully blended together. In this memoir are given some special instances of the result we now call Stokes theorem or as we usually write it. Maxwell describes this work as ``one of the most brilliant achievements in science. The whole, theory and experiment, seems as if it had leaped, full-grown and full-armed, from the brain of the `Newton of electricity'. It is perfect in form and unassailable in accuracy; and it is summed up in a formula from which all the phenomena may be deduced, and which must always remain the cardinal formula of electrodynamics.'' I am in the 21st century. It is the plazma time. Why are you incapable of getting a current University level textbook, in any language, on electromagnetics and reading it? Electromagnetics is a piece to teach (for children). For adults are electrodynamics. In a current University level textbook are many chapters. The fields are only a math tool. Completly useless for electrons. S* |
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Szczepan Bialek wrote:
napisa? w wiadomo?ci ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: I do not studying Maxwell, Heaviside's and his new corrected works. Jimp do it and recommend it to me. You babbling, ignorant, stupid, ineducable, idiot, I reccommended you read MODERN texts, that is texts written LONG after Heaviside died. MODERN texts use the Biot-Savart law. You babbling, ignorant, stupid, ineducable, idiot, Biot-Savart applies to magnetostatics, which has NOTHING to do with how antennas work. Jefimenko's equations are the basis of modern electromagnetic field analysis. Jefimenko's equations first appeared in print in 1962. snip qoute from 187 years ago Electromagnetics is a piece to teach (for children). Gibberish. For adults are electrodynamics. In a current University level textbook are many chapters. More gibberish. The fields are only a math tool. Completly useless for electrons. Yet more gibberish. All the above is the meaningless, ignorant babble of a moron. You are a babbling, ignorant, stupid, ineducable, idiot. Why are you unable to obtain and read a modern, university text and read it in any language? |
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napisał w wiadomości ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: MODERN texts use the Biot-Savart law. You babbling, ignorant, stupid, ineducable, idiot, Biot-Savart applies to magnetostatics, which has NOTHING to do with how antennas work. Jefimenko's equations are the basis of modern electromagnetic field analysis. Jefimenko's equations first appeared in print in 1962. "Jackson characterizes the equations as "Jefimenko's generalization of the Coulomb and Biot-Savart Laws". Heaviside and Jefimenko assumed that: "That a moving charge is equivalent to an electric current-element is undoubted, and to call it a convection-current. as Prof. S. P. Thompson does, seems reasonable." From: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Elect..._moving_charge It is not reasonable. In current are many charges (electrons). No experimental evidences what the magnetic field is in the case of the one charge. The reasonable aproach is the Faraday's: " Whatever the view adopted respecting them may be, we can, at all events, affect these lines of force in a manner which may be conceived as partaking of the nature of a shake or lateral vibration. For suppose two bodies, A B, distant from each other and under mutual action, and therefore connected by lines of force, and let us fix our attention upon one resultant of force, having an invariable direction as regards space; if one of the bodies move in the least degree right or left, or if its power be shifted for a moment within the mass (neither of these cases being difficult to realise if A and B be either electric or magnetic bodies), then an effect equivalent to a lateral disturbance will take place in the resultant upon which we are fixing our attention; for, either it will increase in force whilst the neighboring results are diminishing, or it will fall in force as they are increasing." Here the oscillating charge causes the lateral disturbances. In Biot-Savart are the rotational disturbances. S* |
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Szczepan Bialek wrote:
napisa? w wiadomo?ci ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: MODERN texts use the Biot-Savart law. You babbling, ignorant, stupid, ineducable, idiot, Biot-Savart applies to magnetostatics, which has NOTHING to do with how antennas work. Jefimenko's equations are the basis of modern electromagnetic field analysis. Jefimenko's equations first appeared in print in 1962. "Jackson characterizes the equations as "Jefimenko's generalization of the Coulomb and Biot-Savart Laws". Yes, but you haven't a clue what that really means. Heaviside and Jefimenko assumed that: "That a moving charge is equivalent to an electric current-element is undoubted, and to call it a convection-current. as Prof. S. P. Thompson does, seems reasonable." From: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Elect..._moving_charge Irrelevant to the discussion and Heaviside did not fully understand electromagnetic fields. It is not reasonable. In current are many charges (electrons). No experimental evidences what the magnetic field is in the case of the one charge. Yes, you ignorant moron, there is LOTS of evidence about the magnetic field of individual charges, not the least of which is the operation of the cathode ray tube, possibly known to you as a TV picture tube. The reasonable aproach is the Faraday's: " Whatever the view adopted respecting them may be, we can, at all events, affect these lines of force in a manner which may be conceived as partaking of the nature of a shake or lateral vibration. For suppose two bodies, A B, distant from each other and under mutual action, and therefore connected by lines of force, and let us fix our attention upon one resultant of force, having an invariable direction as regards space; if one of the bodies move in the least degree right or left, or if its power be shifted for a moment within the mass (neither of these cases being difficult to realise if A and B be either electric or magnetic bodies), then an effect equivalent to a lateral disturbance will take place in the resultant upon which we are fixing our attention; for, either it will increase in force whilst the neighboring results are diminishing, or it will fall in force as they are increasing." You haven't a clue what that really means. Here the oscillating charge causes the lateral disturbances. In Biot-Savart are the rotational disturbances. S* Biot-Savart applies magnetostatics, which has NOTHING to do with how antennas work. How many antennas have you built in your lifetime? Why do you refuse to answer the question? Is it because you have built zero antennas and you are trying to say all the people that have successfully built hundreds that they are all wrong and you don't want to admit you are an ignorant, inducable, idiot? Why do you refuse to read a university level textbook on electromagnetics? Is it because you are too ignorant and stupid to understand the contents in any language? |
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